I asked the question a couple of blogs ago after his quote was published - if the team wins "WHEN" it buys in and commits to the system, does the losing indicate they have either 1) not bought in, or 2) not committed? Either/and is a major concern.

Last blog I quoted the Isles' story on how they were able to turn it around under Trotz and wondered what element(s) were problematic or missing in this team (e.g., do we have several players who are too individually-focused?) that was/were preventing us from making that cultural shift. You can't change culture by mandate, so what do we lack that is keeping us from having a winning mentality?
- pdx2ord

Trotz brought/demands instant respect, either through his coaching style or his past successes. Just like the Hawk fanbase, JC did not command any respect coming in, and with no success to speak of still hasn't received/earned any. Unfortunately for JC, replacing a legend especially with hi lack of experience to me was doomed from the start.

Trotz brought/demands instant respect, either through his coaching style or his past successes. Just like the Hawk fanbase, JC did not command any respect coming in, and with no success to speak of still hasn't received/earned any. Unfortunately for JC, replacing a legend especially with hi lack of experience to me was doomed from the start.
- LAHawk

Definitely a key difference

I asked the question a couple of blogs ago after his quote was published - if the team wins "WHEN" it buys in and commits to the system, does the losing indicate they have either 1) not bought in, or 2) not committed? Either/and is a major concern.

Last blog I quoted the Isles' story on how they were able to turn it around under Trotz and wondered what element(s) were problematic or missing in this team (e.g., do we have several players who are too individually-focused?) that was/were preventing us from making that cultural shift. You can't change culture by mandate, so what do we lack that is keeping us from having a winning mentality?
- pdx2ord

Trotz changed the culture by mandate. He had very little turnover on that team and went from most goals allowed to fewest in one season. He says the type of system is largely overrated by people like us. How did he do it? He said you are playing defense if you want to stay and play. He didn't act like a Richard and was publicly supportive, but they knew it was his way or the highway.

All GM's make mistakes. A lot depends on what you determine is success. Is making the playoffs considered success? Does a GM have to win a Cup to be considered successful? Lets say building a team to make the playoffs is considered successful. The Pengiuns have made the playoffs 15 straight years, next closest are the Caps and Preds at 7 years.

The Penguins have won 3 Cups and changed GM's multiple times in the last 15 years. Poile has been GM of the Preds since their inception (25 seasons) and was GM of the Caps for 15 seasons and has never won a cup with either.

So what defines a good GM, is the 3 cups (2.5) they have won under Stan a strong enough case to erase missing the playoffs for multiple years since the last one. Or, has Stan always been an idiot living off the prior regimes of Smith and Tallon (because we can all see what they have accomplished since)
- TheTrob

I don't think the Pitt GM is available?

All GM's make mistakes. A lot depends on what you determine is success. Is making the playoffs considered success? Does a GM have to win a Cup to be considered successful? Lets say building a team to make the playoffs is considered successful. The Pengiuns have made the playoffs 15 straight years, next closest are the Caps and Preds at 7 years.

The Penguins have won 3 Cups and changed GM's multiple times in the last 15 years. Poile has been GM of the Preds since their inception (25 seasons) and was GM of the Caps for 15 seasons and has never won a cup with either.

So what defines a good GM, is the 3 cups (2.5) they have won under Stan a strong enough case to erase missing the playoffs for multiple years since the last one. Or, has Stan always been an idiot living off the prior regimes of Smith and Tallon (because we can all see what they have accomplished since)
- TheTrob

I’ll take three cups and some suckage included within a few years vs making the playoffs 15 times and not winning a cup. As much as many dislike Stan, I’ll take his record over Poile’s any day of the week. I do have an issue with JC, I don’t like how he matches up lines at times, and whom he sits at times.

I don't think the Pitt GM is available?
- rpeters01

Well Rutherford is, Hextall is the new GM.

Trotz changed the culture by mandate. He had very little turnover on that team and went from most goals allowed to fewest in one season. He says the type of system is largely overrated by people like us. How did he do it? He said you are playing defense if you want to stay and play. He didn't act like a Richard and was publicly supportive, but they knew it was his way or the highway.
- mohel

The underrated part about Trotz is how he deals with his players, and how he gets them to buy in. Getting Ovechkin to buy in was probably his crowning achievement, something that none of his predecessors in DC could do.

The underrated part about Trotz is how he deals with his players, and how he gets them to buy in. Getting Ovechkin to buy in was probably his crowning achievement, something that none of his predecessors in DC could do.
- 333inthe3rd

I agree. He didn't need to go the Tortz redass route and embarrass his guys in public. He doesn't go that route, but he does make demands of players. And then he gives them credit. Despite having no neck at all, he seems to be a very good person.

The underrated part about Trotz is how he deals with his players, and how he gets them to buy in. Getting Ovechkin to buy in was probably his crowning achievement, something that none of his predecessors in DC could do.
- 333inthe3rd

It did take him 3+ years to do it though

I agree. He didn't need to go the Tortz redass route and embarrass his guys in public. He doesn't go that route, but he does make demands of players. And then he gives them credit. Despite having no neck at all, he seems to be a very good person.
- mohel

He is very committed to his special needs son, and does a ton of charity work for special needs kids.

I do have an issue with JC, I don’t like how he matches up lines at times, and whom he sits at times.
- Angotti

Very diplomatic way of putting it. I am going to try and tow this line until he's out of a job, or tomorrow afternoon, whichever comes first.

Maybe Danny is just waiting until the overhang of the lawsuit is resolved.

Maybe Danny is just waiting until the overhang of the lawsuit is resolved.
- LAHawk

I don't think they give a flying F about the lawsuit all businesses go through them. It's way overblown on this board.

"Can you imagine the Yankees putting up with this for so long?"


Didn't the Yanks just sign Boone for another three years? Sounded like just about everyone wanted him gone.
- 6628

You beat me to my response, was going to say "Don't tell that to any Yankee fans!"

You beat me to my response, was going to say "Don't tell that to any Yankee fans!"
- vabeachbear

Can't compare baseball cap to hockey cap two different worlds. And can you imagine "escrow" in baseball funniest thing I ever said.

Can't compare baseball cap to hockey cap two different worlds. And can you imagine "escrow" in baseball funniest thing I ever said.
- rpeters01

How does the cap figure into the discussion? Someone mentioned how long it had been since the Hawks won, and asked if the Yankees and their fans would tolerate that. The poster apparently felt Hawk fans have waited long enough to resume their rightful place on top of the throne. Cap or no cap.

Can't compare baseball cap to hockey cap two different worlds. And can you imagine "escrow" in baseball funniest thing I ever said.
- rpeters01

Can't compare any other sport to NHL's hard cap. Top end talent salaries in every other professional sport dwarfs the NHL. Look at top end contracts in MLB, NBA, and NFL. They are all 3-4 times what the top end talent in the NHL earns. None of the caps other than NHL are hard caps, and the whole Escrow provision is ridiculous.

You cannot compare Yankees/MLB system of player acquisition to the NHLs.

Call me over-optimistic, but I am really looking forward to what the Blackhawk team brings tonight.

Since I am completely of the opinion that Marc Crawford would be the rest off the season solution, I want JC here to go down with the ship or right it.

Lots of legs are not at competing at NHL levels on the team and the time to shake that off is SOON.

A year away displays a slower Tazer, and time / games /conditioning will improve.

You have an inexperienced kid at one of the pivots, HIS position, the one the Florida Panthers impatiently moved him out of to wing. Do you let Nikki Borgström play and develop, or send him down and further crush confidence you had to give him his roster spot?

Do we let him try and improve or make a change b/c we want to "compete" for the Stanley Cup next Spring?

You can continue the rebuild every one else is calling a change to a now competition team...I think we see that the new anchor pieces are there and the rebuild continue...I am not sure ANY news coach changes that reality.
- wiz1901

This is a rebuild. Constant roster turnover leads to bad starts to the season. All the great dynasties took 10 years of losing to make. Mike Smith drafted well and then Tallon sunk the team so low they drafted Kane and Toews with 1 and 3 overall. Now the people of Miami are reaping the rewards of Tallon's 10 years of total failure in Florida with a team of high first round picks hitting their prime. Even with Panarin playing and Babcock coaching, this team would be winless. Can't outcoach horrible goaltending. Patience sucks but the only thing to do here is keep adding younger players and endure a few more losing seasons. Enjoy $15 100 level tickets till they turn the corner. Bowman likes offensive hockey and Colliton is coaching a very offensvie style. When the time comes and the team is ready, they can fire the current guy and bring in someone who can coach a playoff winning style. Until then, don't be rat and abandon the sinking ship.

Trotz brought/demands instant respect, either through his coaching style or his past successes. Just like the Hawk fanbase, JC did not command any respect coming in, and with no success to speak of still hasn't received/earned any. Unfortunately for JC, replacing a legend especially with hi lack of experience to me was doomed from the start.
- LAHawk

LA totally hit it on the head here.

Especially when JC is around the same age as Seebs, an active player with an A on the roster.

Trotz brought/demands instant respect, either through his coaching style or his past successes. Just like the Hawk fanbase, JC did not command any respect coming in, and with no success to speak of still hasn't received/earned any. Unfortunately for JC, replacing a legend especially with hi lack of experience to me was doomed from the start.
- LAHawk

Or Trotz took over a team loaded with high picks in their prime after years of sucking. The team had solid goaltending and he still didn't win the Cup.

Trotz failed for years in Nashville. Trotz one great season was with a stacked WAS team playing a 1st year expansion team.

Great goaltending makes great coaches.

JC could have coached the Lightning to the Cup last season.

1. Its only been 4 games, but its been not good. D looks horrible, and 77 seems to be the only chance of ever winning again.

2. Paying #4 that kind of $$ for what he does is a bad idea. I wonder why he got named to the US team already, oh ya Stan is the GM.

3. Watching 6 sliding all over the ice is painful

4. Poor Flower

5. I'm happy 17 gets back in the lineup. Hopefully he can get the PP going and 12 some one timers. I'm already done with the #90 experiment.

This is a rebuild. Constant roster turnover leads to bad starts to the season. All the great dynasties took 10 years of losing to make. Mike Smith drafted well and then Tallon sunk the team so low they drafted Kane and Toews with 1 and 3 overall. Now the people of Miami are reaping the rewards of Tallon's 10 years of total failure in Florida with a team of high first round picks hitting their prime. Even with Panarin playing and Babcock coaching, this team would be winless. Can't outcoach horrible goaltending. Patience sucks but the only thing to do here is keep adding younger players and endure a few more losing seasons. Enjoy $15 100 level tickets till they turn the corner. Bowman likes offensive hockey and Colliton is coaching a very offensvie style. When the time comes and the team is ready, they can fire the current guy and bring in someone who can coach a playoff winning style. Until then, don't be rat and abandon the sinking ship.
- stevefrmglencoe

I am going to add on to your remarks (which iagree)

Even a new coach and probably somewhat better results given a new attitude and a different system on defense, we are still afflicted with too many bad players and players whom have a rotten attitude. Some veterans just practicky go through the motions. Fluery has to be disgusted with the team in front of him Toews is not 100% recovered and Kane only cares about scoring. Too many forwards just do not help out as they should especially in break outs.

A new coach has to sit players out and be demanding. Bowman has to trade guys, bring up Rockford for forwards. The more ties are cut with veterans and those whom just go through the motions, the more energetic hard driving new kids will make the team more entertaining.

Of course this is all easier said than one. First of all, Bowman and Colliton have to accept this team is not making playoffs. Nit with Colliton's system

We are witnessing the post Keith and Seabrook years. With proper support SJines, McCabe and probably Kalynuk are ok.. Murphy, DeHahn, Gus should be dispatched. Stillman I would like to see play with Galvas with forwards helping out

Then we are on the road to recovery.

I personally like Crevier, Vlasic and Kaiser. Mitchell....we'll see. Not much confudance on others. Maybe Kyrs surprises if he gets an opportunity.

You cannot compare Yankees/MLB system of player acquisition to the NHLs.

Call me over-optimistic, but I am really looking forward to what the Blackhawk team brings tonight.

Since I am completely of the opinion that Marc Crawford would be the rest off the season solution, I want JC here to go down with the ship or right it.

Lots of legs are not at competing at NHL levels on the team and the time to shake that off is SOON.

A year away displays a slower Tazer, and time / games /conditioning will improve.

You have an inexperienced kid at one of the pivots, HIS position, the one the Florida Panthers impatiently moved him out of to wing. Do you let Nikki Borgström play and develop, or send him down and further crush confidence you had to give him his roster spot?

Do we let him try and improve or make a change b/c we want to "compete" for the Stanley Cup next Spring?

You can continue the rebuild every one else is calling a change to a now competition team...I think we see that the new anchor pieces are there and the rebuild continue...I am not sure ANY news coach changes that reality.
- wiz1901

I'm looking forward to how they response tonight too. I think they have some good hockey in the tank.

How does the cap figure into the discussion? Someone mentioned how long it had been since the Hawks won, and asked if the Yankees and their fans would tolerate that. The poster apparently felt Hawk fans have waited long enough to resume their rightful place on top of the throne. Cap or no cap.
- mohel

Mine was more in response to his point about the Yankees, and a bunch of other teams wouldn't put up with a poor coach for a long time.

My point was that all Yankee fans that I talk to, and there are many, hate Boone with a passion, were tolerable about the play in game loss because it meant that Boone would be jettisoned.

He got a 3 year extension instead of being jettisoned. They werent' happy.

Just saying no ownership is perfect, especially when family members are involved somehow with day to day operations.......

McCaskey's ...cough........cough..........cough

1. Its only been 4 games, but its been not good. D looks horrible, and 77 seems to be the only chance of ever winning again.

2. Paying #4 that kind of $$ for what he does is a bad idea. I wonder why he got named to the US team already, oh ya Stan is the GM.

3. Watching 6 sliding all over the ice is painful

4. Poor Flower

5. I'm happy 17 gets back in the lineup. Hopefully he can get the PP going and 12 some one timers. I'm already done with the #90 experiment.
- Boisy12

Don't get why everyone protects him, he's as much to blame for what's been going on as anyone.

Say what you want, but I think Lankinen so far has looked better and calmer, and in better position.