Honestly, why do you or anyone for that matter continue to entertain him?
- MJL

Honestly..You the man Cliff

Honestly, why do you or anyone for that matter continue to entertain him?
- MJL

Difficult to always keep scrolling

Exactly what I said, it’s very difficult to put together a contending team
- ClaudeFather

flyers haven't had one in over a decade. Disgraceful.

So with no cap on coaches, scouting, development. Do you think the Flyers have done a good job in that decade in these areas?

We can debate whether it's actually good or bad, but look around... just about every team does that.
- Tomahawk

Nothing wrong with it to an extent. When it is the key important positions you keep making these type of hiring's with no or limited success is when you need to reevaluate don't you think?

How many have been as incestuous as the Flyers is something I would like to know. No interest in researching it though.

EDIT: I cant think of many nhl teams that have a former long time player as their president or senior whatever Homer is today. How many even over the years have had home grown players has the GM?

Nothing wrong with it to an extent. When it is the key important positions you keep making these type of hiring's with no or limited success is when you need to reevaluate don't you think?

How many have been as incestuous as the Flyers is something I would like to know. No interest in researching it though.

EDIT: I cant think of many nhl teams that have a former long time player as their president or senior whatever Homer is today. How many even over the years have had home grown players has the GM?
- hello it's me 2050

Yzerman, Sakic and Rob Blake current GM's that were former players for the same team. That's just off the top of my head.

Nothing wrong with it to an extent. When it is the key important positions you keep making these type of hiring's with no or limited success is when you need to reevaluate don't you think?

How many have been as incestuous as the Flyers is something I would like to know. No interest in researching it though.

EDIT: I cant think of many nhl teams that have a former long time player as their president or senior whatever Homer is today. How many even over the years have had home grown players has the GM?
- hello it's me 2050

Steve Yzerman is the executive Vice President and GM of the Red Wings. Brendan Shanahan is serving as president of Toronto.

Steve Yzerman is the executive Vice President and GM of the Red Wings. Brendan Shanahan is serving as president of Toronto.
- hockeylover

yzerman yes. Shanahan wasnt a long time leaf.

Can you help me understand what system AV employs?

Was the flyers alignment with the nhl and AHL the same when Gordon was the coach?
- hello it's me 2050

What specific systems are you referring to: breakouts, entries, forecheck, neutral zone play, defensive coverage responsibilities, special teams, etc.? These are determined before each season based on the player's strengths and weaknesses.

As far as your second question, I would hope so but I am not sure. Its possible that Gordon's philosophy was not aligned with AVs which is why he was let go.

Yzerman, Sakic and Rob Blake current GM's that were former players for the same team. That's just off the top of my head.
- mickel25

Not sure how I missed those!!! They also cut their teeth in other roles before becoming GM. Homer went straight form coaching to GM I think.

Not sure how I missed those!!! They also cut their teeth in other roles before becoming GM. Homer went straight form coaching to GM I think.
- hello it's me 2050

That is totally not true. MJL posted Holmgren's roles from player all the way to President, and he was accurate.

What specific systems are you referring to: breakouts, entries, forecheck, neutral zone play, defensive coverage responsibilities, special teams, etc.? These are determined before each season based on the player's strengths and weaknesses.

As far as your second question, I would hope so but I am not sure. Its possible that Gordon's philosophy was not aligned with AVs which is why he was let go.
- jd250

I am asking you what system does AV employ?

While the NHL and AHL team should run the same, the flyers have not over the years. Why them or any team doesn't is something I do not get.

That is totally not true. MJL posted Holmgren's roles from player all the way to President, and he was accurate.
- jd250

It is 100% true. Holmgren went from coach of the whalers directly to the GM spot.

Then after he got canned from Hartford he came back to philly to be the director of pro scouting. So what experience did he have to be given that role?


Even Hextall started out as a scout and worked his way up.

I don’t see a whole lot of point going into the past regarding mistakes. Some were made, some were not.

The future is what becomes important. We are approaching a point where I think Fletcher has a real chance at being on the hot seat.

For all their good qualities, and there are some. The last two GM’s failed, so it becomes key to analyze who will be part of the next selection committee.

Nothing wrong with it to an extent. When it is the key important positions you keep making these type of hiring's with no or limited success is when you need to reevaluate don't you think?

How many have been as incestuous as the Flyers is something I would like to know. No interest in researching it though.
- hello it's me 2050

Just looking at the most successful teams from last season:

The Presidents' Trophy winning Colorado Avs have former players in the key positions of GM (Sakic), Assistant GM (Billington) and assistant coach (Pratt).

The entire Jack Adams-winning coaching staff in Carolina are former players: Brind'Amour, Daniels and Gleason. J Williams is a special advisor to the GM, whatever that means.

Tampa has Halpern as assistant coach, Darche has Director of Hockey Ops, JP Cote as Director of Player Development.



There are a bunch of former players on each of those teams that I didn't name in minor positions. It would be harder to find a team that doesn't have a smattering of former players on the payroll than not.

Just looking at the most successful teams from last season:

The Presidents' Trophy winning Colorado Avs have former players in the key positions of GM (Sakic), Assistant GM (Billington) and assistant coach (Pratt).

The entire Jack Adams-winning coaching staff in Carolina are former players: Brind'Amour, Daniels and Gleason. J Williams is a special advisor to the GM, whatever that means.

Tampa has Halpern as assistant coach, Darche has Director of Hockey Ops, JP Cote as Director of Player Development.



There are a bunch of former players on each of those teams that I didn't name in minor positions. It would be harder to find a team that doesn't have a smattering of former players on the payroll than not.
- Tomahawk

Sakic wasnt named GM from the get go. Rod was an assistant to start. Looks like Williams is also learning the job at a lower role. That is all I am saying.

Love Darche in Tampa. He is a smart guy

Just looking at the most successful teams from last season:

The Presidents' Trophy winning Colorado Avs have former players in the key positions of GM (Sakic), Assistant GM (Billington) and assistant coach (Pratt).

The entire Jack Adams-winning coaching staff in Carolina are former players: Brind'Amour, Daniels and Gleason. J Williams is a special advisor to the GM, whatever that means.

Tampa has Halpern as assistant coach, Darche has Director of Hockey Ops, JP Cote as Director of Player Development.



There are a bunch of former players on each of those teams that I didn't name in minor positions. It would be harder to find a team that doesn't have a smattering of former players on the payroll than not.
- Tomahawk

I don’t necessarily think the issue is that the Flyers hire former players. It’s who they hire. Lappy is just an easy example, I’m not sure who could confidently say he was a successful special teams coach, yet he not only isn’t fired he gets a promotion. There is a lot of faith in coaches who are clearly not the answer.

Last season Montreal, Las Vegas, Toronto and I’m sure others who I am forgetting decided to move on from guys that didn’t get their teams to predetermined benchmarks.

Yet the Flyers chose to stay faithful. Hakstol, while not as terrible as some claim was clearly kept around far too long.

The other point to consider is ownership. A GM will have a mandate to follow and I don’t trust Scott to walk my dog.

Sakic wasnt named GM from the get go. Rod was an assistant to start. Looks like Williams is also learning the job at a lower role. That is all I am saying.
- hello it's me 2050

I think that is how most folks start out. I am sure there are other examples outside of Holmgren were they started directly in a GM role. Remember he also got his role in the 80's. Much different landscape compared to today.

If memory serves I think Homer got traded to the Whalers from the Flyers right after they played the Flyers? Maybe Bill can confirm that.

I think that is how most folks start out. I am sure there are other examples outside of Holmgren were they started directly in a GM role. Remember he also got his role in the 80's. Much different landscape compared to today.

If memory serves I think Homer got traded to the Whalers from the Flyers right after they played the Flyers? Maybe Bill can confirm that.
- mickel25

The flyers just need to start looking outside as the one constant has been former flyers in very critical roles.

The flyers just need to start looking outside as the one constant has been former flyers in very critical roles.
- hello it's me 2050

They have for the last two GM hirings and the last two HC hirings. Hextall was a former player but I think league wide he was touted as an asst. GM that should be next up to get a job when the Flyers hired him.

It is 100% true. Holmgren went from coach of the whalers directly to the GM spot.

Then after he got canned from Hartford he came back to philly to be the director of pro scouting. So what experience did he have to be given that role?


Even Hextall started out as a scout and worked his way up.
- hello it's me 2050

From Wiki:

He returned to Philadelphia during the 1995–96 season as the director of pro scouting. He was named the director of player personnel following the 1996–97 season and was named assistant general manager following the 1998–99 season. He served in that position under general manager Bobby Clarke until Clarke resigned a month into the 2006–07 season, at which time Holmgren was named general manager of the club.

The flyers just need to start looking outside as the one constant has been former flyers in very critical roles.
- hello it's me 2050

Fletcher came in from the outside, and he is clearly in a critical role. AV came in from the outside, and is in an equally critical role as head coach. AV's assistants all came in from the outside with significant head coaching experience. Also Brent Flahr as Vice President & Assistant General Manager also completely from the outside.

Not sure what to tell you, but it looks to me like there are no former Flyers in critical roles on this team currently!

From Wiki:
- jd250

so you left out the part where he went straight from whalers coach to the gm. Got it

They have for the last two GM hirings and the last two HC hirings. Hextall was a former player but I think league wide he was touted as an asst. GM that should be next up to get a job when the Flyers hired him.
- mickel25

Being a former Flyers helped him get that job imo. If you feel otherwise that's ok. Fletcher outside though has the clarke connection.

The one thing hextall did that I loved is getting a outside nhl coach. Didnt pan out

Fletcher came in from the outside, and he is clearly in a critical role. AV came in from the outside, and is in an equally critical role as head coach. AV's assistants all came in from the outside with significant head coaching experience. Also Brent Flahr as Vice President & Assistant General Manager also completely from the outside.

Not sure what to tell you, but it looks to me like there are no former Flyers in critical roles on this team currently!
- jd250

Holmgren had a big say in firing hextal. Big say in hiring Fletcher. So to me he is still playing a crucial role.

Until this origination flushes out the old guard completely what is really going to change?

Fletcher came in from the outside, and he is clearly in a critical role. AV came in from the outside, and is in an equally critical role as head coach. AV's assistants all came in from the outside with significant head coaching experience. Also Brent Flahr as Vice President & Assistant General Manager also completely from the outside.

Not sure what to tell you, but it looks to me like there are no former Flyers in critical roles on this team currently!
- jd250

I thought we were talking about the Flyers, not the Whalers?