I would agree....all those minutes and games....and hits, blocks, etc beat up Seabrook quicker than Keith.

I would love to see Jones get McCabe for 20+ games and see if that allows Jones to win some people over on this board....sure as hell not Elbows but maybe others........
- SteveRain

That doesn’t win people over but proves Jones isn’t a #1.

#1’s do not need babysitters. True #1’s need to someone who plays defense, that’s it. Not covering their constant mistakes.

Stats don’t lie, Jones will never be that guy.

A case could be made that the only reason Seabrook became a star was because Of DK.
- Diamondhands

Could be. But if you ask Duncan Keith, he'll tell you Seabs had plenty to do with him being Duncan Keith. I'll take his opinion on that.

Landeskog is having a hearing. I suspect he’ll be fined with no suspension because Dach wasn’t hurt. Although an injury should be irrelevant to the fact there could easily have been an injury. Like Steve or Rick said, you know Landeskog‘s number. Next game look for an opportunity and drill him with an clean check.
- paulr

The silver lining here is that Dach is fast becoming a target. There's coming a day soon, when he pots one or even two of those breakaways. Let's give this kid a legitimate chance to settle in and not become impatient with him. Got a good possibility of becoming a keeper. Already seeing some flashes.

Could be. But if you ask Duncan Keith, he'll tell you Seabs had plenty to do with him being Duncan Keith. I'll take his opinion on that.
- mohel

I watched Seabrook for over a decade get his @ss kicked in a lot of shifts taking grenades from Keith in his own end where Keith did a stick push to avoid a hit......

Keith had much more talent, but if you pair Keith with Cam Barker early on....is Keith the same player?

Pairs matter. Balance out each other's game....like a hockey marriage so to speak.

That doesn’t win people over but proves Jones isn’t a #1.

#1’s do not need babysitters. True #1’s need to someone who plays defense, that’s it. Not covering their constant mistakes.

Stats don’t lie, Jones will never be that guy.
- Diamondhands

You need balance in pairs.....Keith could push things because Seabrook would back it up. You think Keith becomes the same player if he's paired with Cam Barker and not Seabrook? Not a chance in hell.

I don't remember there being so much of a "JC patrol." My argument before was that it doesn't matter much with the personnel they were fielding at the time, though I wondered if a top coach like Trotz would have been enough for them to get a lower playoff seed instead of tee times. At this point, there should be enough personnel to compete. The trades were made this past offseason to give Toews and Kane a chance at something over the last two years of their contracts. I can't imagine Colliton gets the same long leash this year.

Well if you are saying you think Stan is telling JC what to do....then Danny Wirtz has bigger fish to fry......because I don't know, and nobody here knows, if the Hawks upper management will allow Bowman to fire another coach. Especially after going all IN this summer and doing a very strange 180 reversal in their long term outlook.

ANd if Bowman is pushing this crap system, then maybe he should be the one to be poop canned and they can keep JC........
- SteveRain

Bingo. That was my point. I don't think Stan or the FO is telling JC what system to run any more than they told Q what system to run. As much as JC may enjoy an NHL paycheck and all the big league perks, I doubt him, or any coach for that matter is going to let the FO dictate a specific system.

You have to believe the leash is short for JC. Stan didn't make all the deals he did to watch this team miss the playoffs. Stan may not be poop-canned, but since he was given a higher title, the possibility that they name a GM and a new coach is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

Bingo. That was my point. I don't think Stan or the FO is telling JC what system to run any more than they told Q what system to run. As much as JC may enjoy an NHL paycheck and all the big league perks, I doubt him, or any coach for that matter is going to let the FO dictate a specific system.

You have to believe the leash is short for JC. Stan didn't make all the deals he did to watch this team miss the playoffs. Stan may not be poop-canned, but since he was given a higher title, the possibility that they name a GM and a new coach is not beyond the realm of possibilities.
- TheTrob

I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that one.

As we go round and round on whether it's the players, or JC, that are the main problem, I'll reiterate something I researched a couple of years ago.

In his 1st 8 years as a HC (4 Sweden, 1 AHL, 3 NHL), JC's teams have finished in the top HALF of the league GAA exactly ONCE. It was the year Mora finished 1st and was promoted to the top Swedish league.

So across 2 continents and 3 leagues, JC has consistently failed to develop teams that were, at minimum, average defensively.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
- scottak

It's still both.

Just so we're sure... you don't like JC, correct?

We are exactly one game into this season.

The Hawks played arguably the best team in the West, if not the league, on the road.
There were some glaring mistakes, that ultimately wound up in the back of the the net. Some of those mistakes were by newcomers, some by old familiar players, so was it system, player, both, neither. Reality says it was a little bit of each.

My prediction, if the Hawks hover around .500 for the first 20 games or so then JC gets a few more games of leash. If by the 20 game mark they are 5 or more games under .500 he will be gone.

I get what you are saying, but I think it's a fools errand to look at it like that. If I just take my front 9 scores for the last two months, my handicap is about 5 strokes better.

The game is 60 minutes. How many times have we heard "we were great for 55 minutes". Well, those extra five minutes lost it for you. That is where the consistency comes in (that is currently lacking). I still think they will get there (the in game improvement speaks to that), I just think it will take more time than anyone here is comfortable waiting.
- Chunk

I’ve been called worse.

And if I judge your golf game on the back nine of one game does that tell me how good you are?

Ha...I am leaning that way, but I said I will give him 20+games to see if he can prove himself with a roster that is built to win, or at least talented enough to battle for a playoff spot. I posted that previously to you.

I just grow tired of seeing the same crap over and over and over again game in and game out. These mistakes can't continue to happen especially when you had all summer, all camp, preseason and then you as a team, poop yourself, and burry yourself in a hole against a cup contender without their star player in game 1. Everything was looking good for the Hawks to steal a game until the puck dropped. that's my anger. Just a completely inexcusable start for a roster that has enough guys who have played in big games. Can not happen.....and I am not going to make excuses that it was altitude or jitters or whatever else. You are a professional. Get yourself ready to go.....not take a mental vacation for the 1st 10 minutes and lose the game.

I will say they battled....and they had chances as you pointed out. I hope Dach continues to create. that was bubble dach.....the best dach version we have seen, but we need him to finish. Get that confidence rolling.....

....and unless they upgrade the net....you know who Colorado reminds me of? The 2007-2013 Canucks. Lots of talent but a bunch of mental midgets who cant handle it......led by their meathead captain who implodes and takes stupid penalties........and it rubs off as I recall McKinnon losing his mind vs Vegas in that series.

They are on my list of anyone BUT them....along with the east coast version of mental midgets residing up in Ontario.....
- SteveRain

I resemble that remark.

7

New faces. Same issues. What is the constant? Or how many times does a person have to see the same patterns before realizing its time for a change.

I’ve been called worse.

And if I judge your golf game on the back nine of one game does that tell me how good you are?
- paulr

No, that's why I'm advocating for looking at the entire game(s), and not just a majority of it. You have to look at both the good and bad. Even if you play well 90% of the time, if that last 10% ends up making you lose 50% of your games, you have to correct that. I'm not drawing any conclusions off of one game. That's for crazy people and drug addicts. I should have clarified that my thoughts apply to the collection of games in a season.

And how DARE you judge my golf game.

That doesn’t win people over but proves Jones isn’t a #1.

#1’s do not need babysitters. True #1’s need to someone who plays defense, that’s it. Not covering their constant mistakes.

Stats don’t lie, Jones will never be that guy.
- Diamondhands

You will never convince people that Seth Jones is at best a middling #2. He was terrible last night and yes, he wasn't alone.

But then, no one else costs so much to acquire and will take up 12% of the cap going forward.

Some people were predicting Tyler Johnson would put 50 points. He will be lucky to break 30.

New faces. Same issues. What is the constant? Or how many times does a person have to see the same patterns before realizing its time for a change.
- Elbows15

your suggestion?

No, that's why I'm advocating for looking at the entire game(s), and not just a majority of it. You have to look at both the good and bad. Even if you play well 90% of the time, if that last 10% ends up making you lose 50% of your games, you have to correct that. I'm not drawing any conclusions off of one game. That's for crazy people and drug addicts. I should have clarified that my thoughts apply to the collection of games in a season.

And how DARE you judge my golf game.
- Chunk

The way I golf there is no chance I’m judging anyone else’s game. 🏌🏻

A case could be made that the only reason Seabrook became a star was because Of DK.
- Diamondhands

I think the opposite is more likely. Keith was able to play the style he played, because Seabrook was always there to bail him out.

You will never convince people that Seth Jones is at best a middling #2. He was terrible last night and yes, he wasn't alone.

But then, no one else costs so much to acquire and will take up 12% of the cap going forward.

Some people were predicting Tyler Johnson would put 50 points. He will be lucky to break 30.
- Elbows15

nobody here gave Jones the contract or gave up the draft picks players for him. If you want to be angry about it, and not YOU particular but the universal YOU as in the group who is, then blame said person who navigated that transaction.

WE have been through the very small miniscule amount of players who have had massive deals, for massive term who were still worth their deal at the end....I think Paulr and I ended up with Ovechkin and Kane....sure there may be a few others, but not many.

I have hope for Johnson. Think it's dependent upon where they slot him and how he gels with this team. Pretty sure before Cooper asked him to slide down for the betterment of the team he was about a 50 point guy...Hawks don't have the fs Tampa has.....


All early....hoping for the best....expecting a playoff push and appearance. Just don't want to see the same damn mistakes over and over again.

A case could be made that the only reason Seabrook became a star was because Of DK.
- Diamondhands

A bigger case can be made that the only reason DK became a star was because of Seabrook.

The way I golf there is no chance I’m judging anyone else’s game. 🏌🏻
- paulr

I made a pledge to myself to never comment on anyone's golf until I break 100 the first time.

I think the opposite is more likely. Keith was able to play the style he played, and excelled at because Seabrook was always there to bail him out.
- Ogilthorpe2

While both Seabrook and Keith benefited from each other, I’d agree that Keith was able to play his game because Seabrook was willing to cover and dare I say, bail him out.

I made a pledge to myself to never comment on anyone's golf until I break 100 the first time.
- 35Tony0

Does that include the front nine?

I think the opposite is more likely. Keith was able to play the style he played, because Seabrook was always there to bail him out.
- Ogilthorpe2

Exactly and I think for the Hawks to MAXIMIZE whatever it is that Jones can be for them.....McCabe is the best option TODAY for him to skate with. A player who plays a very solid defensive game and allows Jones to play his game.

Slotting him with a turd like Dehaan isn't going to work.....

I made a pledge to myself to never comment on anyone's golf until I break 100 the first time.
- 35Tony0

was out in vegas over the weekend for the Bears game.

If anyone ever gets out there.....try Pauite (have 3 courses....snow mountain, sun mountain and the wolf).....off of 95 heading towards Reno. Immaculate conditions and very well run. Tight fairways, but out in the desert. actually rained on us which I didnt think was possible. Also played Revere in Henderson. That course was OK...and good for a round if you want to pound beers with buddies.