For the 1st half of his career I agree, not so much the second half.
- Ogilthorpe2

I would agree....all those minutes and games....and hits, blocks, etc beat up Seabrook quicker than Keith.

I would love to see Jones get McCabe for 20+ games and see if that allows Jones to win some people over on this board....sure as hell not Elbows but maybe others........

Most NHL teams play pretty similar systems. It's largely the same game wherever you go with coaches each having one or two little tweaks and set plays to try and throw the opponent off.

More or less it comes down to execution more than whatever the break-out is supposed to look like or who is supposed to cover who or whatever.

There's a plan. The plans have been pretty similar your entire career. Execute.
- BINGO!

Agreed on everything, but the bolded is the key. The execution is obviously the biggest issue. That is on both the players and the coaches, but I would put more emphasis on the coaches (60/40). I'm willing to put a lot of blame on JC, but there is certainly plenty to go around.

We've seen the team play in streaks where they are on and doing a better job defensively while also potting goals. They just need to get into that groove.

Think it was Mayers who said it best by pointing out all the hits Landenskog (spell) was trying to do that shift by running the D on the ring around, slight elbow skating back, and then smoking Dach.....Hit was borderline.....when I saw it live I thought it was horrible, but Dach was losing his balance a bit and he smoked him a few out from the side......10 years ago....probably not a penalty....sure as hell not one in the playoffs.

I didn't notice much to Kane's game being so "off"...if Hawks hadn't announced he was dealing with something that long term happens in hockey (hips or back is my guess) would anyone here notice? Likely not. Now I fear, that's going to be the new narrative to pound whenever he doesnt get a point.....
- SteveRain

Some of us did point out - last season - that he wasn’t playing with the same “jump”, the same puck- and play-controlling creativity that he was known for.

3 goals scored in his last 33 games last season. He had the assists, yeah, but not the goals - and not the creativity with the puck.

And some of us made some comments here last season that it seemed that something was wrong. I have seen nothing yet this season that says otherwise: is his injury still bothering him somehow? (If it’s legitimate to dump on Jones after a couple of pre-season games and one regular season contest, it is certainly ok to question Kane’s play after the same.)

The two shots in quick succession that he had last night that Kuemper stuffed - I get the feeling that he would have buried one or both in his illustrious past.

To my knowledge there is no JC patrol? Blaming players falling down or running into each other on the coach is ridiculous. Blaming the coach for a team’s inability to exit the zone or win puck battles is fair and that wasn’t done in the first period. But what about the second and third periods? What about the penalty kills?

Generally a good coach has a good team. Quenneville didn’t look so great in his last two years in Chicago. His team looked disorganized and were unable to win puck battles or make clean exits from their zone. Does this mean Quenneville was a bad coach?

I have no idea if JC is a good coach or not and most posters don’t either. Last night told me the team wasn’t prepared for the opening whistle. Was that in part due to playing a better faster team? Was it in part due to playing in the opposition arena with their boisterous crowd in the mountains? Or was it due to bad coaching on Chicago’s part? I’ll wait until December, not one bad period of one game, like I do every year, to make up my mind about the team and it’s coaching.
- paulr

A good/great coach can get and usually maximizes the effort and ability out of his roster. Nashville never had an immense amount of talent and Columbus didn't either but Trotz and Torts both got those teams to buy in and become better as a unit vs the individual game.

I don't see that so far with this group since the 2018-19 season when he took over....now what I did say and will stand behind is your process.......

I'll give him until 20+ games with this roster because this is by FAR The best roster he has had....and if he still isn't getting results than at that point IMO it IS fair to question him as a NHL HC.....this isn't a roster filled with kids or aging vets during a full on rebuild.......

This roster was constructed to win this year.....which is also debatable for what that ceiling is...for me....playoffs.....

As far as the beginning goes......I blame players for that....you're a professional.....have Kane/Toews and others NOT played in front of crowds before at the NHL level? Have they NOT played in hostile arenas? OF course they have.....

Now the breakdowns.....and accountability needs to start happening.....take off the kid gloves. Recall in November of 2008 vs Phoenix Q chained Sharp and Kane to the bench for idiotic turnovers. Same needs to start happening now....can't call out a kid for doing something that a Murphy or Dehaan or Jones or McCabe are also doing....

THe on ice awareness just seems to be aloof far too much.....DeBrincat falling asleep on Byram's goal......Murphy gambling and losing in the neutral zone and then Johnson and McCabe blowing up panicking to pick up Johnson.....blown assignments.....just frustrating.

Game 1....81 more to go.

To my knowledge there is no JC patrol? Blaming players falling down or running into each other on the coach is ridiculous. Blaming the coach for a team’s inability to exit the zone or win puck battles is fair and that wasn’t done in the first period. But what about the second and third periods? What about the penalty kills?

Generally a good coach has a good team. Quenneville didn’t look so great in his last two years in Chicago. His team looked disorganized and were unable to win puck battles or make clean exits from their zone. Does this mean Quenneville was a bad coach?

I have no idea if JC is a good coach or not and most posters don’t either. Last night told me the team wasn’t prepared for the opening whistle. Was that in part due to playing a better faster team? Was it in part due to playing in the opposition arena with their boisterous crowd in the mountains? Or was it due to bad coaching on Chicago’s part? I’ll wait until December, not one bad period of one game, like I do every year, to make up my mind about the team and it’s coaching.
- paulr

Last night's failure was due to all of these things. At some point the Hawks need to choose to become a better "TEAM". That's players and coaches. They have much better talent, but they are not playing as a unit. There was a lot of indecision, hesitation, and individual plays yesterday. The coaches need to clearly lay out what needs to be done. The players need to prepare themselves to execute as such and they need to learn how to play together on the ice.

As has been repeated ad nauseum by you and others - one game. If they look like this in Dec, then yeah, some major changes are likely to (and should) happen.

Some of us did point out - last season - that he wasn’t playing with the same “jump”, the same puck- and play-controlling creativity that he was known for.

3 goals scored in his last 33 games last season. He had the assists, yeah, but not the goals - and not the creativity with the puck.

And some of us made some comments here last season that it seemed that something was wrong. I have seen nothing yet this season that says otherwise: is his injury still bothering him somehow? (If it’s legitimate to dump on Jones after a couple of pre-season games and one regular season contest, it is certainly ok to question Kane’s play after the same.)

The two shots in quick succession that he had last night that Kuemper stuffed - I get the feeling that he would have buried one or both in his illustrious past.
- StLBravesFan

I have no clue.....all I go by is what the player says....and Kane said the time off helped but the injury was something he was going to have to deal with. Believe Bowman said something similar.

It's hard to tell at times with Kane.....when he's frustrated he's an easy tell with his body language and lack of effort on the back check...saw that at times last night and cheating a bit.....Thought Kuemper came out good on that 3rd period chance to cut down Kane's angle.

Who knows....I agree though, if he's out there, he's open to criticism.

Agreed on everything, but the bolded is the key. The execution is obviously the biggest issue. That is on both the players and the coaches, but I would put more emphasis on the coaches (60/40). I'm willing to put a lot of blame on JC, but there is certainly plenty to go around.

We've seen the team play in streaks where they are on and doing a better job defensively while also potting goals. They just need to get into that groove.
- Chunk

Exactly.

Last night's failure was due to all of these things. At some point the Hawks need to choose to become a better "TEAM". That's players and coaches. They have much better talent, but they are not playing as a unit. There was a lot of indecision, hesitation, and individual plays yesterday. The coaches need to clearly lay out what needs to be done. The players need to prepare themselves to execute as such and they need to learn how to play together on the ice.

As has been repeated ad nauseum by you and others - one game. If they look like this in Dec, then yeah, some major changes are likely to (and should) happen.
- Chunk

Take out the first period and re-judge the team based on the second and third periods. Not so clear anymore. Which is the anomaly, the first period or the last two?

That gutless hit on Dach along the boards, should warrant a fine plus a game suspension. If not, old-style hockey will be back with a vengeance. Another school of thought says that if the old brand of hockey was in vogue, Landeskog might not have attempted such a gutless hit on a vulnerable and fallen 20 year old kid. The perpetrator today pays a fine or receives a game suspension. Ho-hum. Worth it to him and the message he sends out with a megaphone. He should face some unpleasant music the next time these teams face each other. But, he probably won't. Sorry boys, but sometimes the 'new' hockey, really doesn't compare to the old.

To my knowledge there is no JC patrol? Blaming players falling down or running into each other on the coach is ridiculous. Blaming the coach for a team’s inability to exit the zone or win puck battles is fair and that wasn’t done in the first period. But what about the second and third periods? What about the penalty kills?

Generally a good coach has a good team. Quenneville didn’t look so great in his last two years in Chicago. His team looked disorganized and were unable to win puck battles or make clean exits from their zone. Does this mean Quenneville was a bad coach?

I have no idea if JC is a good coach or not and most posters don’t either. Last night told me the team wasn’t prepared for the opening whistle. Was that in part due to playing a better faster team? Was it in part due to playing in the opposition arena with their boisterous crowd in the mountains? Or was it due to bad coaching on Chicago’s part? I’ll wait until December, not one bad period of one game, like I do every year, to make up my mind about the team and it’s coaching.
- paulr

So many previously successful coaches have quickly morphed into being just terrible coaches these days - Bill Belichek, John Tortorella, Pete Carroll, Paul Maurice, Nick Nurse etc.

Its a mystery and it can't possiblly have anything to do with player personnel and their ability to execute.

Take out the first period and re-judge the team based on the second and third periods. Not so clear anymore. Which is the anomaly, the first period or the last two?
- paulr

yeah but how much of it also was Colorado sitting back after getting up 3?

So many previously successful coaches have quickly morphed into being just terrible coaches these days - Bill Belichek, John Tortorella, Pete Carroll, Paul Maurice, Nick Nurse etc.

Its a mystery and it can't possiblly have anything to do with player personnel and their ability to execute.
- RickJ

Like Joel Quenneville?

That gutless hit on Dach along the boards, should warrant a fine plus a game suspension. If not, old-style hockey will be back with a vengeance. Another school of thought says that if the old brand of hockey was in vogue, Landeskog might not have attempted such a gutless hit on a vulnerable and fallen 20 year old kid. The perpetrator today pays a fine or receives a game suspension. Ho-hum. Worth it to him and the message he sends out with a megaphone. He should face some unpleasant music the next time these teams face each other. But, he probably won't. Sorry boys, but sometimes the 'new' hockey, really doesn't compare to the old.
- gabriel

Landeskog is having a hearing. I suspect he’ll be fined with no suspension because Dach wasn’t hurt. Although an injury should be irrelevant to the fact there could easily have been an injury. Like Steve or Rick said, you know Landeskog‘s number. Next game look for an opportunity and drill him with an clean check.

yeah but how much of it also was Colorado sitting back after getting up 3?
- SteveRain

I have no idea? Do you?

A good/great coach can get and usually maximizes the effort and ability out of his roster. Nashville never had an immense amount of talent and Columbus didn't either but Trotz and Torts both got those teams to buy in and become better as a unit vs the individual game.

I don't see that so far with this group since the 2018-19 season when he took over....now what I did say and will stand behind is your process.......

I'll give him until 20+ games with this roster because this is by FAR The best roster he has had....and if he still isn't getting results than at that point IMO it IS fair to question him as a NHL HC.....this isn't a roster filled with kids or aging vets during a full on rebuild.......

This roster was constructed to win this year.....which is also debatable for what that ceiling is...for me....playoffs.....

As far as the beginning goes......I blame players for that....you're a professional.....have Kane/Toews and others NOT played in front of crowds before at the NHL level? Have they NOT played in hostile arenas? OF course they have.....

Now the breakdowns.....and accountability needs to start happening.....take off the kid gloves. Recall in November of 2008 vs Phoenix Q chained Sharp and Kane to the bench for idiotic turnovers. Same needs to start happening now....can't call out a kid for doing something that a Murphy or Dehaan or Jones or McCabe are also doing....

THe on ice awareness just seems to be aloof far too much.....DeBrincat falling asleep on Byram's goal......Murphy gambling and losing in the neutral zone and then Johnson and McCabe blowing up panicking to pick up Johnson.....blown assignments.....just frustrating.

Game 1....81 more to go.
- SteveRain

Even some of us Colliton Lovers have saying this for months.

Remember all the clutching of pearls here when JC sat Seabs? It was the right thing to do, but many here (and apparently some other players, too) had a big sad over it.

I have no idea? Do you?
- paulr

Well I can say they weren't pushing as hard after they got up 3-0....came back a little bit after it was 3-1 and Hawks had them for a stretch when dach was getting breakaways....then they got up 4-1 and tried to force Hawks to dump and chase....

Ebs and flows.....

Random questions/comments

1 At what point does the slow start pattern become an ingrained habit? Is it already? If, as was pointed out, this was happening regularly at the tail end of Q's tenure, what's the root cause? How do you correct it?

2. Going to be watching the Toews / JC dynamic closely - the narrative about buy-in has been there since the coaching change, but Toews has very obviously been acting as bench coach during timeouts, pulling groups of players to the side to diagram out tactics. Is that sanctioned/welcomed by the coaching staff? Has he always done that and I just didn't notice? What message is that sending to the team about the coaches?

3. The FO has already called JC to the carpet for his system and demanded a change - they did that during his first season (rumor has it, after a mini-rebellion by the star players). Do you really believe that if the players thought it was the system that was impossible to play or too confusing to execute effectively, they wouldn't again go bend Stan's ear? If it's Brookbank that's a primary issue, is he too well liked as a former player for them to call him out when they should? At this point, if Stan HASN'T gotten a cross-section of players' opinions on the coaching staff and approach, that's a leadership failure.

4. Kane's scoring woes carrying over has to be the unnamed injury - Mr. No Poker Face is visibly frustrated with himself.

5. Is there a matchup and lineup construction wizard out there who could help JC? Those seem to be a lingering achilles heel for him. I shake my head when he talks about "creating chemistry" as if you can force it. Toews/Kane, Kane/Panarin, Toews/Hoss - that's real chemistry that was almost immediate.

Even some of us Colliton Lovers have saying this for months.

Remember all the clutching of pearls here when JC sat Seabs? It was the right thing to do, but many here (and apparently some other players, too) had a big sad over it.
- mohel

Agreed.......I know I am in the minority and Fleury likely needs to bail him out....but that murphy pinch was just dumb....great if you transition it, but when you don't....saw what happens.

See if he starts to sit guys for a shift or two if these type of mental mistakes start to manifest further.

Well I can say they weren't pushing as hard after they got up 3-0....came back a little bit after it was 3-1 and Hawks had them for a stretch when dach was getting breakaways....then they got up 4-1 and tried to force Hawks to dump and chase....

Ebs and flows.....
- SteveRain

They weren’t pushing as hard or the Hawks were able to prevent them pushing as hard? I was looking for that and couldn’t determine which was the case? I will say if ABD doesn’t shoot over the net, if Dach nets on of his breakaways it’s a different game. But if you’re in the, fire the coach after a game, camp all the power to you. As I said I’ll wait for a bigger sample size, and I may just join you.

Take out the first period and re-judge the team based on the second and third periods. Not so clear anymore. Which is the anomaly, the first period or the last two?
- paulr

I get what you are saying, but I think it's a fools errand to look at it like that. If I just take my front 9 scores for the last two months, my handicap is about 5 strokes better.

The game is 60 minutes. How many times have we heard "we were great for 55 minutes". Well, those extra five minutes lost it for you. That is where the consistency comes in (that is currently lacking). I still think they will get there (the in game improvement speaks to that), I just think it will take more time than anyone here is comfortable waiting.

As we go round and round on whether it's the players, or JC, that are the main problem, I'll reiterate something I researched a couple of years ago.

In his 1st 8 years as a HC (4 Sweden, 1 AHL, 3 NHL), JC's teams have finished in the top HALF of the league GAA exactly ONCE. It was the year Mora finished 1st and was promoted to the top Swedish league.

So across 2 continents and 3 leagues, JC has consistently failed to develop teams that were, at minimum, average defensively.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Looking forward to Friday versus NJ.
Hoping AdB is ok.
Happy Dach didn't get maimed although Landesgog rode him all the way into the boards, not cool. Happier Tyler Johnson went straight after the guy. And Darren Pang's commentary regarding it was some genuine Grade A douchebaggery.

Duncan Keith had an Olympian and mulitiple all-star Brent Seabrook as his partner.
- LAHawk

A case could be made that the only reason Seabrook became a star was because Of DK.

They weren’t pushing as hard or the Hawks were able to prevent them pushing as hard? I was looking for that and couldn’t determine which was the case? I will say if ABD doesn’t shoot over the net, if Dach nets on of his breakaways it’s a different game. But if you’re in the, fire the coach after a game, camp all the power to you. As I said I’ll wait for a bigger sample size, and I may just join you.
- paulr

In addition, Landeskog was clearly frustrated the whole shift that ended with the Dach hit.

They weren’t pushing as hard or the Hawks were able to prevent them pushing as hard? I was looking for that and couldn’t determine which was the case? I will say if ABD doesn’t shoot over the net, if Dach nets on of his breakaways it’s a different game. But if you’re in the, fire the coach after a game, camp all the power to you. As I said I’ll wait for a bigger sample size, and I may just join you.
- paulr

Ha...I am leaning that way, but I said I will give him 20+games to see if he can prove himself with a roster that is built to win, or at least talented enough to battle for a playoff spot. I posted that previously to you.

I just grow tired of seeing the same crap over and over and over again game in and game out. These mistakes can't continue to happen especially when you had all summer, all camp, preseason and then you as a team, poop yourself, and burry yourself in a hole against a cup contender without their star player in game 1. Everything was looking good for the Hawks to steal a game until the puck dropped. that's my anger. Just a completely inexcusable start for a roster that has enough guys who have played in big games. Can not happen.....and I am not going to make excuses that it was altitude or jitters or whatever else. You are a professional. Get yourself ready to go.....not take a mental vacation for the 1st 10 minutes and lose the game.

I will say they battled....and they had chances as you pointed out. I hope Dach continues to create. that was bubble dach.....the best dach version we have seen, but we need him to finish. Get that confidence rolling.....

....and unless they upgrade the net....you know who Colorado reminds me of? The 2007-2013 Canucks. Lots of talent but a bunch of mental midgets who cant handle it......led by their meathead captain who implodes and takes stupid penalties........and it rubs off as I recall McKinnon losing his mind vs Vegas in that series.

They are on my list of anyone BUT them....along with the east coast version of mental midgets residing up in Ontario.....