The point is, Dozzer, that Dubas does NOT want to make those moves.

Remember: "For better, or for worse...."

They will not entrust Dubas to making those type of moves.
- fifty__missions

I’m talking about him bringing in a new coach for this core and his mild adjustments would require permission.

I don’t believe he would be fired

22😆
- mr.sir

The problem is that literally unless the Leafs win the Cup, Dubas has mismanaged the team's assets.
- fifty__missions

So every GM who ever had a good team and didn't win mismanaged assets? Dubas wouldn't be the first or the last by your metrics. It's a part of sports. You go for it and if you fail then you failed trying.

I don't think Dubas will be able to play the "fire my coach" card that most GM's get at least one of.

If anything, Shanahan will need to play the fire the GM card. You can't imagine the MLSE brain trust is entirely enthused with the perennial losing.
- mjones242

I think Shanny would essentially tell Dubas to fire Keefe or you’re getting fired and I’ll let the next GM decide.

That's exactly what the idiots in Calgary said about 23 year old Brett Hull when the Flames traded Hull, alongside Steve Bozek in exchange for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. Robertson has the second best shot in the Leafs Organization. The kid is going to be very good and he turned 20 last month.
- winsix

I'm not saying he should be traded. But it's true of Robertson right now that he is not strong enough for the NHL game.. I just think he is a trade chip because Dubas has no other options. And he's desperate. If you haven't noticed, I think the Leafs are mismanaged.

So every GM who ever had a good team and didn't win mismanaged assets? Dubas wouldn't be the first or the last by your metrics. It's a part of sports. You go for it and if you fail then you failed trying.
- Aaron_85

Dubas is too scared to truly go for it. He is too "married" to his core pieces to move one of them, and actually change the structure of the team. He will fail through fear.

I think Shanny would essentially tell Dubas to fire Keefe or you’re getting fired and I’ll let the next GM decide.
- Dozzer

I watched 'All or Nothing'. Shanny is a non-entity floating around in nice Leafs swag. Happy to let Dubas take all the heat.

Dubas is too scared to truly go for it. He is too "married" to his core pieces to move one of them, and actually change the structure of the team. He will fail through fear.
- fifty__missions

Isn't it actually kind of gutsy to stick with your vision in the face of adversity and stake your job on it?

Isn't it actually kind of gutsy to stick with your vision in the face of adversity and stake your job on it?
- Zezel

You could look at it that way, yes. That's Kyle's take on it. Or you could say that its a guy who is too proud and afraid to admit that a structure he put in place is not working, repeatedly.

I think Shanny would essentially tell Dubas to fire Keefe or you’re getting fired and I’ll let the next GM decide.
- Dozzer

I just don't see Dubas surviving another early round exit. If anything, I think Keefe would be more likely to survive it considering he has 2 more years left on his contract.

Hell, Shanny's job may also be less assured if the Leafs get bounced in the 1st round again.

I'm not saying he should be traded. But it's true of Robertson right now that he is not strong enough for the NHL game.. I just think he is a trade chip because Dubas has no other options. And he's desperate. If you haven't noticed, I think the Leafs are mismanaged.
- fifty__missions

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with it at all. I have been a Leaf fan for a long time, and have seen many awful GM's. Floyd Smith, Gerry MCnamara and JFJ to name three. Many dark days during those GM's. This Leaf squad is loaded with talent. Last year Matthews became the first winner of the Rocket Richard trophy. He was the first Calder winner for the Leafs since Brit Selby in 1965/66

If you think this is the dark ages for the Leafs, they are desperate, you have blinders on.

Isn't it actually kind of gutsy to stick with your vision in the face of adversity and stake your job on it?
- Zezel

It's both a virtue and a flaw. Babcock was inflexible and would never deviate from his plan because he didn't recognize any alternative narrative.

Granted, Babs had a tremendous ego which drove his stubborn inability to craft a Plan B, but Dubas seems like he's on the same track of inflexibility because he's made the Core 4 such an integral part of his vision. It could be his undoing.

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with it at all. I have been a Leaf fan for a long time, and have seen many awful GM's. Floyd Smith, Gerry MCnamara and JFJ to name three. Many dark days during those GM's. This Leaf squad is loaded with talent. Last year Matthews became the first winner of the Rocket Richard trophy. He was the first Calder winner for the Leafs since Brit Selby in 1965/66

If you think this is the dark ages for the Leafs, they are desperate, you have blinders on.
- winsix

I never said that. I completely agree with you re. the talent on this team. What I believe is that they are squandering a golden opportunity.

Robertson and Lilijgren are trade chips at this point. Dubas has no other options.
- fifty__missions

(frank) no they're not.

They're the guys that are gonna get slotted in because their contracts are small and the team is up to the CAP.

Would be really dumb to trade them. That would be an actual mismanagement of assets.

(frank) no they're not.

They're the guys that are gonna get slotted in because their contracts are small and the team is up to the CAP.

Would be really dumb to trade them. That would be an actual mismanagement of assets.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Yes

I would still trade Robertson for Ty Dellandrea, if possible 👍

I just don't see Dubas surviving another early round exit. If anything, I think Keefe would be more likely to survive it considering he has 2 more years left on his contract.

Hell, Shanny's job may also be less assured if the Leafs get bounced in the 1st round again.
- mjones242

I see it as Keefe first, then Dubas a year afterwards by bringing in a coach who’s completely different and it still not working. Then the new GM comes in and decides who to trade before the NTCs start that July.

Who cares about the 2 years as well btw, MLSE certainly doesn’t (ie: Babcock)

(frank) no they're not.

They're the guys that are gonna get slotted in because their contracts are small and the team is up to the CAP.

Would be really dumb to trade them. That would be an actual mismanagement of assets.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Agreed, and with Robertson and Amirov on LW at minimum wage, Leafs need to hang on to this assets

It's both a virtue and a flaw. Babcock was inflexible and would never deviate from his plan because he didn't recognize any alternative narrative.

Granted, Babs had a tremendous ego which drove his stubborn inability to craft a Plan B, but Dubas seems like he's on the same track of inflexibility because he's made the Core 4 such an integral part of his vision. It could be his undoing.
- mjones242

Yeah, I was just questioning whether it indicates Dubas is fear-based. I think those psychological narratives either way are a reach to make from our perspectives on the couch.

It's both a virtue and a flaw. Babcock was inflexible and would never deviate from his plan because he didn't recognize any alternative narrative.

Granted, Babs had a tremendous ego which drove his stubborn inability to craft a Plan B, but Dubas seems like he's on the same track of inflexibility because he's made the Core 4 such an integral part of his vision. It could be his undoing.
- mjones242

I didn't like what I saw in 'All or Nothing'. Keefe, like 8 or 9 games into the season, had to get Spezza to deliver his message to the team because he was being "too hard" on the younger guys in the room. When they fired Babcock, they gave the keys to the kingdom to the kids. What they say, goes. Keefe talked about "playoff habits" all season - scoring dirty area goals, and and avoiding turnovers - and both of those things killed the Leafs v. Montreal. The kids didn't listen to Babcock, and they didn't listen to Keefe, either.

You could look at it that way, yes. That's Kyle's take on it. Or you could say that its a guy who is too proud and afraid to admit that a structure he put in place is not working, repeatedly.
- fifty__missions

Last season Dubas straight up admitted that he was too one tracked and not open minded enough to other things. So he quite literally tinkered his philosophy and signed more heart and soul guys and character and grit guys.

That to me is the literal definition of a guy that's willing to face his failings with humility and grace.

If nothing else, any team losing in the first round six years in a row is such an unlikely bet that on that basis alone I like their chances, in addition to their being a very good team.

Yes

I would still trade Robertson for Ty Dellandrea, if possible 👍
- mr.sir

As of right now, I'd stick with Robertson. I love his shot.

As of right now, I'd stick with Robertson. I love his shot.
- GreatGigInTheSky

For sure. The kid is only 20 yet. Saw the comparison to Kadri yesterday. Sometimes it takes awhile to get the message thru

Last season Dubas straight up admitted that he was too one tracked and not open minded enough to other things. So he quite literally tinkered his philosophy and signed more heart and soul guys and character and grit guys.

That to me is the literal definition of a guy that's willing to face his failings with humility and grace.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Dubas did little more than re-shuffle the deck chairs. Let's hope its not on the Titanic.

Dubas did little more than re-shuffle the deck chairs. Let's hope its not on the Titanic.
- fifty__missions

He also did the exact opposite of what you suggested that he is.