When you consider yourself a cup contender you allow guys to walk for nothing.

Better to have him and go for it then trade him for a D man who would only half as decent if they’re only 4-5 million to sign

I know you don’t consider them to a true contender and that’s why you think this way but the leafs themselves don’t agree with you
- Dozzer

Dozzer, has it ever occurred to you that Dubas' apparent belief that the Leafs are a serious Cup contender might be flawed?

What gives Dubas, and you, that belief? Because they cared, and cried, after melting down again vs. Montreal?

I just don't see it. I see a team that will be fighting tooth and nail for a playoff spot, and then, should they make it, in the toughest playoff division in hockey.

Dozzer, has it ever occurred to you that Dubas' apparent belief that the Leafs are a serious Cup contender might be flawed?

What gives Dubas, and you, that belief? Because they cared, and cried, after melting down again vs. Montreal?

I just don't see it. I see a team that will be fighting tooth and nail for a playoff spot, and then, should they make it, in the toughest playoff division in hockey.
- fifty__missions

That’s fair but I also support how they see themselves and won’t be upset that they’re acting that way for a couple more years.

That’s fair but I also support how they see themselves and won’t be upset that they’re acting that way for a couple more years.
- Dozzer

I think it's folly that this team sees itself as serious Cup contenders, and there should have been deeper structural changes this past offseason. The whole, "once more again, this time with feeling" approach just isn't cutting it with me. And I get flamed in here because I'm not on board the Dubas train. I actually think the organization is wasting a golden opportunity by pigheadedly sticking with a flawed and failing plan.

You know what, though? I'll say this - I DO hope you mother(frank)ers are right. But my gut just cannot believe it this time.

Far better for him to be a top pairing d-man for the marlies than be sitting in a suit watching games all the time as well.

It’s also a team that considers themselves cup contenders which means don’t expect many rookies playing in the lineup
- Dozzer

Good coaches will tell you that they can either try to win or develop players. They can't do both. So I agree. Top minutes on the Marlies is the best idea. Even if the leafs wanted to pursue a trade down the road, showing off a prospect playing top minutes on the farm team is good.

Same goes for Robertson. I know everyone is in a hurry but the kid played 31 games last year. Let's see what he does in a full season with the Marlies.

I think it's folly, and that there should have been deeper structural changes this past offseason. The whole, "once more again, this time with feeling" approach just isn't cutting it with me. And I get flamed in here because I'm not on board the Dubas train.

You know what, though? I'll say this - I DO hope you mother(frank)ers are right. But my gut just cannot believe it this time.
- fifty__missions

Lol I hope we’re right too

I have some suspicions as well but like I said I know the leafs consider themselves cup contenders. So to keep myself from way too upset I make sure I remind myself of that and realize there’s going to be guys lost to free agency amd a lot of picks will get traded.

When the Matthews and Marner contracts reach their ends if they haven’t been close or won the cup yet I think it’s time to start rebuilding the team in a different way too however. And yes hopefully that includes trading at least one of them after next year at the latest.

Good coaches will tell you that they can either try to win or develop players. They can't do both. So I agree. Top minutes on the Marlies is the best idea. Even if the leafs wanted to pursue a trade down the road, showing off a prospect playing top minutes on the farm team is good.

Same goes for Robertson. I know everyone is in a hurry but the kid played 31 games last year. Let's see what he does in a full season with the Marlies.
- Aaron_85

Yup if they were planning on playing their young talent they wouldn’t have signed as many guys this off-season putting them next to the cap.

I think they already had them playing in the AHL planned unless they played better then everyone else in the preseason notably.

Yup if they were planning on playing their young talent they wouldn’t have signed as many guys this off-season putting them next to the cap.

I think they already had them playing in the AHL planned unless they played better then everyone else in the preseason notably.
- Dozzer

Robertson and Lilijgren are trade chips at this point. Dubas has no other options.

The Leafs are gonna be okay

The Leafs are gonna be okay, say the goddamn words

SAY THE GODDAMN (frank)IN WORDS
- Zezel

*crushes jug of blue kool-aid*


THE LEAFS ARE GOING TO BE OK
( in anchorman’s voice)

Lol I hope we’re right too

I have some suspicions as well but like I said I know the leafs consider themselves cup contenders. So to keep myself from way too upset I make sure I remind myself of that and realize there’s going to be guys lost to free agency amd a lot of picks will get traded.

When the Matthews and Marner contracts reach their ends if they haven’t been close or won the cup yet I think it’s time to start rebuilding the team in a different way too however. And yes hopefully that includes trading at least one of them after next year at the latest.
- Dozzer

The problem is that literally unless the Leafs win the Cup, Dubas has mismanaged the team's assets.

The problem is that literally unless the Leafs win the Cup, Dubas has mismanaged the team's assets.
- fifty__missions

2 or 3 good runs I’d be happy with, but this is the year. No more excuses.

If I read 1 more Tanner article after this playoffs that the leafs were the better team and just got unlucky I’m going to burn down the city.

Robertson and Lilijgren are trade chips at this point. Dubas has no other options.
- fifty__missions

They still have the 1st and 2nd round picks after this season as well, nothing else tho

The problem is that literally unless the Leafs win the Cup, Dubas has mismanaged the team's assets.
- fifty__missions

I think the coach and gm have until the end of next season personally, maybe a coaching change without winning a playoff series tho

Back to Lilljgren. If this guy can't lock down a 7th spot in his 5th year as a pro, it's time to move past this guy.
- fifty__missions

Good coaches will tell you that they can either try to win or develop players. They can't do both. So I agree. Top minutes on the Marlies is the best idea. Even if the leafs wanted to pursue a trade down the road, showing off a prospect playing top minutes on the farm team is good.

Same goes for Robertson. I know everyone is in a hurry but the kid played 31 games last year. Let's see what he does in a full season with the Marlies.
- Aaron_85

I'd like to see something from Liljegren this year. When he gets his chance later this season. He a RHD with some talent and he's a good skater, an asset the Leafs need to develop. I have more patience for Robertson. I think he will be just fine. His older brother on Dallas was third in Calder voting last year and by all accounts Nick is as good or better than his older brother. He was also the youngest player drafted in 2019. If he was a week older, he would have only been draft eligible in 2021.

I think the coach and gm have until the end of next season personally, maybe a coaching change without winning a playoff series tho
- Dozzer

Dozzer, fast forward 7 or 8 eight months, and ask yourself what the vibe around the organization, Toronto and Leafs Nation will be if the Leafs don't make the playoffs, or go down in the first round. It would be UGLY.

Dubas would be history.

I'd like to see something from Liljegren this year. When he gets his chance later this season. He a RHD with some talent and he's a good skater, an asset the Leafs need to develop. I have more patience for Robertson. I think he will be just fine. His older brother on Dallas was third in Calder voting last year and by all accounts Nick is as good or better than his older brother. He was also the youngest player drafted in 2019. If he was a week older, he would have only been draft eligible in 2021.
- winsix

Robertson does not have "man strength" yet. He gets bounced all over the place in both ends of the rink.

Dozzer, fast forward 7 or 8 eight months, and ask yourself what the vibe around the organization, Toronto and Leafs Nation will be if the Leafs don't make the playoffs, or go down in the first round. It would be UGLY.

Dubas would be history.
- fifty__missions

I disagree. He’s got the duration of the big contracts he gave out essentially imo

He’s only been the gm since the spring of 2018… my guess is he was given a 5 year window

I disagree. He’s got the duration of the big contracts he gave out essentially imo

He’s only been the gm since the spring of 2018… my guess is he was given a 5 year window
- Dozzer

The pressure will be too great on the organization to do something. Dubas will be gone.

Dozzer, fast forward 7 or 8 eight months, and ask yourself what the vibe around the organization, Toronto and Leafs Nation will be if the Leafs don't make the playoffs, or go down in the first round. It would be UGLY.

Dubas would be history.
- fifty__missions

Anything less than a Conference Final run for the Leafs will spell the end to Dubas, Keefe, and potentially the Core 4 (I'm guessing Mitch).

It's definitely going to get ugly if the Leafs can't find a measure of success. Would be fun if this team could stop having key players get injured during the post-season (Tavares, Muzzin x2, Foligno, Hyman, et al.).

The pressure will be too great on the organization to do something. Dubas will be gone.
- fifty__missions

That’s why I said they’d fire Keefe and give Dubas one more year

Pretty sure it would be the kind of year that he’d permission for any move he wanted to make tho

That’s why I said they’d fire Keefe and give Dubas one more year

Pretty sure it would be the kind of year that he’d permission for any move he wanted to make tho
- Dozzer

The point is, Dozzer, that Dubas does NOT want to make those moves.

Remember: "For better, or for worse...."

They will not entrust Dubas to making those type of moves.

That’s why I said they’d fire Keefe and give Dubas one more year

Pretty sure it would be the kind of year that he’d permission for any move he wanted to make tho
- Dozzer

I don't think Dubas will be able to play the "fire my coach" card that most GM's get at least one of.

If anything, Shanahan will need to play the fire the GM card. You can't imagine the MLSE brain trust is entirely enthused with the perennial losing.

Robertson does not have "man strength" yet. He gets bounced all over the place in both ends of the rink.
- fifty__missions

That's exactly what the idiots in Calgary said about 23 year old Brett Hull when the Flames traded Hull, alongside Steve Bozek in exchange for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley. Robertson has the second best shot in the Leafs Organization. The kid is going to be very good and he turned 20 last month.

Robertson and Lilijgren are trade chips at this point. Dubas has no other options.
- fifty__missions

He has options. You just refuse to see them or look at anything other than "the sky is falling".

You are the least objective person who posts on these forums because you have blinders on.

Dubas and Co. have made mistakes but they aren't in a corner with "no options". He can play those guys for one thing as an option. He can trade Kerfoot for another, he can do plenty, just stop with the doom and gloom until it actually happens. You can ignore the team and the entire season, might be best for your health.