Location: All Ontario Scientist (Masters Level III) Joined: 04.11.2018
Oct 2 @ 9:55 PM ET
Tell me where I’m wrong.
Marner is an elite player
Marner is paid to be an elite player
Marner player at an elite level last year and was named to the first All Star Team
Marner didn’t play at an elite level during the playoffs
Marner wasn’t alone in this and the loss isn’t on him - Canada Cup
You’re not necessarily wrong at all (he does have elite skill), but to be an Elite Player, you need to play elite when it matters.
Also - as skilled as he is (undeniable) he is overpaid. He is especially overpaid on the Leafs as he provides offence. Leafs have enough elite skill (not debating ranks here but they have offence). He’s a good PK player (but there are a lot cheaper ones). He is not very solid defensively 5v5. Not terrible but average at best positionally.
Most importantly for your team is that he is elite skill/offensively - the return in a trade would equate to better depth up front and depth on defence. Spread out that Cap. Create better team.
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Oct 2 @ 9:57 PM ET
You’re not necessarily wrong at all (he does have elite skill), but to be an Elite Player, you need to play elite when it matters.
Also - as skilled as he is (undeniable) he is overpaid. He is especially overpaid on the Leafs as he provides offence. Leafs have enough elite skill (not debating ranks here but they have offence). He’s a good PK player (but there are a lot cheaper ones). He is not very solid defensively 5v5. Not terrible but average at best positionally.
Most importantly for your team is that he is elite skill/offensively - the return in a trade would equate to better depth up front and depth on defence. Spread out that Cap. Create better team. - Big23Questions
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine Joined: 04.03.2016
Oct 2 @ 10:06 PM ET
You’re not necessarily wrong at all (he does have elite skill), but to be an Elite Player, you need to play elite when it matters.
Also - as skilled as he is (undeniable) he is overpaid. He is especially overpaid on the Leafs as he provides offence. Leafs have enough elite skill (not debating ranks here but they have offence). He’s a good PK player (but there are a lot cheaper ones). He is not very solid defensively 5v5. Not terrible but average at best positionally.
Most importantly for your team is that he is elite skill/offensively - the return in a trade would equate to better depth up front and depth on defence. Spread out that Cap. Create better team. - Big23Questions
Respectfully disagree. A player that the Wings famously threw away for Terry Harper and Dan Maloney, namely Marcel Dionne - was absolutely an elite player. I believe he is 6th in all time scoring. Made the playoffs nine times as the best player on his team in 8 of those appearances. Was less than a point a game producer in the playoffs and was a -23 in the playoffs over his career. (he was over 1.3 points per game over 19 regular seasons.) He never won a cup!
Location: All Ontario Scientist (Masters Level III) Joined: 04.11.2018
Oct 2 @ 10:20 PM ET
Respectfully disagree. A player that the Wings famously threw away for Terry Harper and Dan Maloney, namely Marcel Dionne - was absolutely an elite player. I believe he is 6th in all time scoring. Made the playoffs nine times as the best player on his team in 8 of those appearances. Was less than a point a game producer in the playoffs and was a -23 in the playoffs over his career. (he was over 1.3 points per game over 19 regular seasons.) He never won a cup! - winsix
I appreciate the ‘respectfully’ part man, cheers.
1. Not happy about the Wings chirp (ha)
2. The Little Beaver was certainly a elite/gifted offensive talent for sure. Hall of Fame.
3. Everyone evaluates differently I suppose. I think the separation between good/elite/star, etc., hinges on putting up when it counts. That’s what breaks that Elite ‘Player’ vs Elite Talent. In Dionne’s case he played 19 years and was super offensively gifted and resulted in a crap-load of points. Hall of Fame Career.
4. Dionne didn’t really have consistently good, let alone ‘real good’ teams like Marner. Dionne played only 49 playoff games over a 19 year career. Marner has already played 32 in 5 seasons.
Ultimately, I still think a very good player -Top 10 wingers in league - just not worth that cash hit at all and could be more useful in the long run for Leafs by trading him…I also don’t see him being a ‘money player’. Especially when the going gets tougher. He does shy away a bit.
Trading Marner would be totally insane imo - Zezel
Mhmm..
Throughout the doc you see how much Mitch cares, how bad he wants to win. That’s why he works so hard on his 200ft game. He tries so hard to be a complete player. That’s why he deserves every cent of his contract.
When Dubas is asked about Nylander he just laughs and says, “Willy? He’s a character lol” but doesn’t say anything at all about how hard he tries to improve him game etc. And when Keefe is giving that speech about getting in front the other players, battling for the puck, playing physical he’s very clearly sending that message to the guys who don’t do any of that. It’s kinda nice to see that Keefe doesn’t let guys take shortcuts, so my guess is that he’s not a huge fan of WN. Respect the talent, but also knows that he’s basically uncoachable.
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine Joined: 04.03.2016
Oct 2 @ 10:27 PM ET
I appreciate the ‘respectfully’ part man, cheers.
1. Not happy about the Wings chirp (ha)
2. The Little Beaver was certainly a elite/gifted offensive talent for sure. Hall of Fame.
3. Everyone evaluates differently I suppose. I think the separation between good/elite/star, etc., hinges on putting up when it counts. That’s what breaks that Elite ‘Player’ vs Elite Talent. In Dionne’s case he played 19 years and was super offensively gifted and resulted in a crap-load of points. Hall of Fame Career.
4. Dionne didn’t really have consistently good, let alone ‘real good’ teams like Marner. Dionne played only 49 playoff games over a 19 year career. Marner has already played 32 in 5 seasons.
Ultimately, I still think a very good player -Top 10 wingers in league - just not worth that cash hit at all and could be more useful in the long run for Leafs by trading him…I also don’t see him being a ‘money player’. Especially when the going gets tougher. He does shy away a bit. - Big23Questions
Not a chirp Detroit had terrible management in those days as did the Leafs. Bad trades are part of that. Darryl Sittler was also an elite player and never won a cup. Paul Henderson, part of the worst trade the Leafs ever made was absolutely not an elite player, but came up huge during possibly the biggest hockey series ever.
Location: All Ontario Scientist (Masters Level III) Joined: 04.11.2018
Oct 2 @ 10:35 PM ET
Not a chirp Detroit had terrible management in those days as did the Leafs. Bad trades are part of that. Darryl Sittler was also an elite player and never won a cup. Paul Henderson, part of the worst trade the Leafs ever made was absolutely not an elite player, but came up huge during possibly the biggest hockey series ever. - winsix
Oh I know man I was laughing cause it’s true. Terrible deal…plus I’m sensitive about the Wings right now. And by right now I mean last few years and the next few years.
Your other post on here re; Marner OHL years:
Jr. Hockey doesn’t necessarily translate. That I can guarantee. Plus if you think about it - there are so many players who are unreal good and just can’t figure out how to put it all together in the NHL. Honestly just look towards Team Canada Juniors over the years. No offence to any Russians on this Site (and to lesser degree Americans), but Canadians junior player in the 3 big leagues are a collections of arguably the best talent in junior. Not all make it past training camps.
Marner is absolutely not only able to figure it out in the NHL but as I said he has become elite offensively…but my points still stand.
