Has there been any tank in recent history that has turned out well?

Like literally any team that purposely sold everything off to actively try and lose?

Even the Maples Leafs and Oilers cant find any postseason success still.

A truly successful rebuild never starts with a tank. It starts with building a good culture that shows that winning matters, and brings prospects up through the system, whether they are 1st overall or not, in that culture.
- rangerdanger94

this is a good take but what it all comes down to is how "tank" is defined...i'm with you...others are not

Sabres hold the cards for 10 more months.

They also missed several opportunities the past 12 months to get good value for him.
- Pegullaville

Source?

that's the way it's supposed to be...if i'm a gm, i'm looking to get jack on the cheap...if i'm the sabres, i want to get the most value i can from a trade...the former has a ceiling as to high how they're willing to go...the latter has a floor as a bare minimum...

*shrugs*
- Michael Pachla

I think that Buffalo will hold steady until next years draft. At that point, they will be forced to accept the best offer available, no matter how terrible it is, before the NMC kicks in and Pegula has to pay Eichel a $7,500,000 bonus out of his pocket on July 1

KAGM wouldn’t know good value if it slapped him in the face.

Cody Eakin, Toby Reider, and Jack Quinn agree.
- Pegullaville

that's not answering, it's deflecting because you don't really know...and that's fine...Past performance is not indicative of future results...as someone who's said to be involved in investing as a career, i'm sure you've seen this

I'll ask again, can the team (or the NHL) force medical arbitration, or does that request only come from a player? Seems to me that is the only way to satisfy both what the team wants and what Jeichel wants.

The longer this crapshow stalemate goes on, the closer we get to next summer and fewer trade possibilities.

I think that Buffalo will hold steady until next years draft. At that point, they will be forced to accept the best offer available, no matter how terrible it is, before the NMC kicks in and Pegula has to pay Eichel a $7,500,000 bonus out of his pocket on July 1
- rangerdanger94

they have to hold steady

I think that Buffalo will hold steady until next years draft. At that point, they will be forced to accept the best offer available, no matter how terrible it is, before the NMC kicks in and Pegula has to pay Eichel a $7,500,000 bonus out of his pocket on July 1
- rangerdanger94

Imagine going into next summer, if Jack sits all season and still hasn't had surgery...

Imagine going into next summer, if Jack sits all season and still hasn't had surgery...
- Lunaion

i can't see the sabres budging on fusion surgery

Imagine going into next summer, if Jack sits all season and still hasn't had surgery...
- Lunaion

Right, and I still can't find out who can start the medical arb process...see my above post.

Won’t lie, that tank was a bit before my time really following hockey. Same with Chicago.

Seems like more often than not, especially over the last decade, a purposeful tank leads to perennial failure
- rangerdanger94

Penguins tanked for Mario

Devils were a disaster from 82-91. Drafted 3 HOF’ers in Shanahan, Broduer, Niedermayer)

Blackhawks got Toews + Kane.

Penguins got MAF, Staal, Malkin, then got lucky for Crosby.

Kings missed playoffs for a decade, won two cups. Drafted Kopitar, Doughty, Brayden Schenn whom was used as an asset via trade.

Leafs and Avalanche look like perennial contenders.

But yeah because Edmonton and Buffalo have terrible ownership and management forever and Frank up a wet dream tanking doesn’t work 😝

Right, and I still can't find out who can start the medical arb process...see my above post.
- LandlordTom

This is uncharted territory really. I can't imagine there's any way they can force him to have surgery. They probably have a way to pursue suspending and not paying him, which would certainly be contested and ugly.

What's the direction? Neither side has given an inch on surgery. A trade is getting more difficult and less likely by the day.
- Lunaion

From everything that has leaked out it seems like things were moving in the right direction. If you want instant gratification it isn't there right now. All that matters is that Adams gets it right in the end.

Penguins tanked for Mario

Devils were a disaster from 82-91. Drafted 3 HOF’ers in Shanahan, Broduer, Niedermayer)

Blackhawks got Toews + Kane.

Penguins got MAF, Staal, Malkin, then got lucky for Crosby.

Kings missed playoffs for a decade, won two cups. Drafted Kopitar, Doughty, Brayden Schenn whom was used as an asset via trade.

Leafs and Avalanche look like perennial contenders.

But yeah because Edmonton and Buffalo have terrible ownership and management forever and Frank up a wet dream tanking doesn’t work 😝
- Pegullaville

there are only four teams that overtly tanked for a generational player--the pens and devils for lemieux, buffalo and arizona for mcjesus...the pens won, the devils and yotes lost the race to the bottom and the sabres won the race to the bottom but lost the lottery

I'll ask again, can the team (or the NHL) force medical arbitration, or does that request only come from a player? Seems to me that is the only way to satisfy both what the team wants and what Jeichel wants.

The longer this crapshow stalemate goes on, the closer we get to next summer and fewer trade possibilities.
- LandlordTom

I don't know if there is an answer to this. I think Jack is afraid of losing in arbitration.

From everything that has leaked out it seems like things were moving in the right direction. If you want instant gratification it isn't there right now. All that matters is that Adams gets it right in the end.
- Slump Buster

All the signs say nothing is moving at all. "Right direction" and "moving forward" are just empty expressions.

that's not answering, it's deflecting because you don't really know...and that's fine...Past performance is not indicative of future results...as someone who's said to be involved in investing as a career, i'm sure you've seen this
- Michael Pachla

Technical analysis is completed predicated on past price movements and trends, history may not repeat but it does rhyme.

There are two sides to this coin.

People who give Adams the benefit of the doubt, and the people who don’t.

Time will tell

I don't know if there is an answer to this. I think Jack is afraid of losing in arbitration.
- Slump Buster

I think the team and/or NHL should get involved and get medical arb going...just whistling dixie like both sides are doing now is not going to get either surgery done, and for a trade to happen, SOMETHING has to get done to Jack's neck. I can't believe the league has not done anything to force the situation.

Technical analysis is completed predicated on past price movements and trends, history may not repeat but it does rhyme.

There are two sides to this coin.

People who give Adams the benefit of the doubt, and the people who don’t.

Time will tell
- Pegullaville

however, you cannot guarantee results...it's on every investment prospectus...

as to adams, we shall see, like you said...would rather keep my blood pressure under control for the duration than speculate and have it skyrocket because we have absolutely no control over the situation

there are only four teams that overtly tanked for a generational player--the pens and devils for lemieux, buffalo and arizona for mcjesus...the pens won, the devils and yotes lost the race to the bottom and the sabres won the race to the bottom but lost the lottery
- Michael Pachla

Arizona has the ammo to do serious damage this decade. We’ll see if they have the right management team to pull it off.

Arizona has the ammo to do serious damage this decade. We’ll see if they have the right management team to pull it off.
- Pegullaville

point taken

From everything that has leaked out it seems like things were moving in the right direction. If you want instant gratification it isn't there right now. All that matters is that Adams gets it right in the end.
- Slump Buster

Odds of that happening are slim to none

He’s been stripped of the C, isn’t healthy, won’t play another game to prove he’s healthy and still elite

He’s getting .50 on the dollar if we’re lucky

I'm sorry, but it's clear you don't deal in contract enforcement.

Despite being presented with the facts, you choose to dig your heals in.

That's how the language works. It is intended to bring the parties together and level the playing field.

You seem to be redefining it how you want to in terms of application.

No amount of evidence I provide will suffice as this is the reality bubble you've built for yourself.

Good day.
- gcomella34

He'sthatguy.

His opinion is written in stone.

donnie meatballs once again killed the presser...god i hope he can pull it off to the point where they're playing respectably on a consistent basis, win or lose

however, you cannot guarantee results...it's on every investment prospectus...

as to adams, we shall see, like you said...would rather keep my blood pressure under control for the duration than speculate and have it skyrocket because we have absolutely no control over the situation
- Michael Pachla

Absolutely correct.

Any analysis done whether technical, fundamental, speculative the best we can do is try to generate a probability of something happening and hedge in case we are wrong.

What probability would you put at this current time of Buffalo getting a great return for Eichel given the recent turmoil ?

Odds of that happening are slim to none

He’s been stripped of the C, isn’t healthy, won’t play another game to prove he’s healthy and still elite

He’s getting .50 on the dollar if we’re lucky
- sbroads24

I think the org and Jack would allow games to be played in a Sabres jersey in order to facilitate a trade if that were the only way. I think it's the 'pull chute in case of emergency' option, though.