Cause hockey isn't won by scoring more goals?
- bobbyisno1

That’s only part of the win.

Setting the goals up, keeping scoring against you down are just as important for instance

The two greatest games I ever saw Sundin play were:

1996 World Cup - I think it was the semis, Canada vs. Sweden. Damn, he was dominant. Canada won in OT, but he was the 1st, 2nd and 3rd stars of the game.

Welcome Back Wendel night at MLG. We had just got Wendel back (huge mistake), and Sundin let Toronto know that it was his team, not Wendel's. (I had a "Welcome Back, Wendel - from Cheerios t-shirt - it was my hockey shirt for years).

He also had some epic playoff performances.

But having seen what he could do, I always wondered why he didn't do it more often. He often left you wanting more.
- Atomic Wedgie

He wasn’t a firecracker, tear out your lungs kind of guy

He was smooth enough to make it look like it was effortless or less work than a lot of guys.

How many nights was he supposed to carry a team on his back? Guys have to find their own physical and emotional level that they can sustain over a season and career. He was wired differently

One other favourite Sundin moment:

I think we were playing Ottawa.

I also think it was in OT.

We had a bit of pressure, but Ottawa managed to clear it - or so they thought.

Sundin - from the point, right up against the boards - wired a slapper under the bar.

It was so abrupt - nobody was expecting it. There was a really weird buzz in the crowd - about a 1 second delay in reacting.

I'll see if I can find the clip.
- Atomic Wedgie

Not quite how I remembered it, but enjoy:

Not everything is about scoring.

That’s how. If someone doesn’t understand that then they don’t understand hockey. End of story.
- Dozzer

I couldn't agree with you more. It's just that at certain salaries you can't not score.

I like good all around games and tbh if the leafs had more salary they could spend I’d want better D

Like I mentioned earlier, the best D man was only plus 11, which was 40th amongst the D men around the league. I’m not too worried about the forwards, there’s enough skill to score, but the D isn’t sitting too well with me
- Dozzer

If you want to go by last year’s numbers which a lot of people dismiss because apparently we were playing ECHL teams, Leafs D were ranked 6th or 7th in the League in GA

He wasn’t a firecracker, tear out your lungs kind of guy

He was smooth enough to make it look like it was effortless or less work than a lot of guys.

How many nights was he supposed to carry a team on his back? Guys have to find their own physical and emotional level that they can sustain over a season and career. He was wired differently
- Canada Cup

This is going to sound like I'm slagging Forsberg, but I'm really not:

I always thought that Forsberg benefitted from having Sakic as the captain. Forsberg could just quietly go about doing his thing. He could show leadership in the dressing room, but he didn't have to deal with the media (although that was much less of a job in Denver).

I always thought that Sundin would have benefitted from an arrangement like that - I never really felt like he loved all the crap that came with being Leafs captain.

If you want to go by last year’s numbers which a lot of people dismiss because apparently we were playing ECHL teams, Leafs D were ranked 6th or 7th in the League in GA
- Canada Cup

And 7th worst on the penalty kill with the best penalty killer on the team leading the way.

He wasn’t a firecracker, tear out your lungs kind of guy

He was smooth enough to make it look like it was effortless or less work than a lot of guys.

How many nights was he supposed to carry a team on his back? Guys have to find their own physical and emotional level that they can sustain over a season and career. He was wired differently
- Canada Cup

Good points here.

Wendel played with reckless abandon but was never half as effective or talented as Mats. But, well, if you're used to watching a heart-on-your-sleeve guy and then you get a cool cucumber like Mats leading your team it's jarring.

It's funny thinking back on Clark -- because he definitely dogged it on a lot of shifts and wasn't the "leave it all on ice" player on every shift. But he gets a pass because when he was a warrior it was unmistakable.

Mats never looked like he was shifting gears -- he was just consistent as (frank) and when he did put the team on his back it was an unexpected lethal play that would just come out of nowhere (like his many, many OT winners).

The problem for many leafs fans is that if you aren’t a goal scorer you’re not worth much. Doesn’t matter if Marner is essentially the best player on the team for the PP, PK, and top line minutes (all around game is what I’m referencing). If he’s not a hitter or a scorer so many people consider him not worth much.

Also unlike Matthews my guess is he’s in Toronto a long time
- Dozzer

Marner is an excellent player. His effectiveness on the PP is limited IMO because his shot is not particularly strong or accurate. Having him on the point is also a questionable strategy IMO, because the defender knows he will probably pass instead of shooting so the defender has a sigificant advantage. Nylander at the point on the first PP unit would make more sense. His shot is excellent and defenders would have to defend against both the shot and pass options. I haven't seen WAR stats or GAR stats for 2021, but would think that Matthews was easily the top forward in both categories. Neither Marner or Matthews have hit their peak productivity yet.

This is going to sound like I'm slagging Forsberg, but I'm really not:

I always thought that Forsberg benefitted from having Sakic as the captain. Forsberg could just quietly go about doing his thing. He could show leadership in the dressing room, but he didn't have to deal with the media (although that was much less of a job in Denver).

I always thought that Sundin would have benefitted from an arrangement like that - I never really felt like he loved all the crap that came with being Leafs captain.
- Atomic Wedgie

To be fair: there was nothing quiet about how Forsberg played.

You're right though, Sundin never had a player of Sakic's pedigree to help him though (ironically).

Good points here.

Wendel played with reckless abandon but was never half as effective or talented as Mats. But, well, if you're used to watching a heart-on-your-sleeve guy and then you get a cool cucumber like Mats leading your team it's jarring.

It's funny thinking back on Clark -- because he definitely dogged it on a lot of shifts and wasn't the "leave it all on ice" player on every shift. But he gets a pass because when he was a warrior it was unmistakable.

Mats never looked like he was shifting gears -- he was just consistent as (frank) and when he did put the team on his back it was an unexpected lethal play that would just come out of nowhere (like his many, many OT winners).
- mjones242

He was completely broken down. It wasn't his fault.

His second stint in Toronto was awful.

And do not tell me he had a third stint in Toronto, because through years and years of therapy, I have worked hard to forget that it ever happened.

Gawd, he embarrassed himself. And that really hurts for me to say, because I loved the man.

Sniff...sniff...allergies are acting up. I may have to go down to the Madison tonight to bring back the old memories...

Not quite how I remembered it, but enjoy:



- Atomic Wedgie

Nice!
And with CuJo, my all-time favorite

He was completely broken down. It wasn't his fault.

His second stint in Toronto was awful.

And do not tell me he had a third stint in Toronto, because through years and years of therapy, I have worked hard to forget that it ever happened.

Gawd, he embarrassed himself. And that really hurts for me to say, because I loved the man.

Sniff...sniff...allergies are acting up. I may have to go down to the Madison tonight to bring back the old memories...
- Atomic Wedgie

The Madison ugh...

The Madison ugh...
- Zezel

You watch your franking mouth, Zezzie.

Back in the day, it was the place to go on Saturday nights after the game.

Al Strachan was always there. Gord Miller was there a lot. Paul Romanuk.

And Wendel would often show up (he lived on Madison).

It's where I saw the 2002 gold medal game. Funny story: before the game, a guy wearing a USA jersey sorta sidled up to us - asked if it was OK if he watched with us, because he was worried about his safety. We laughed - assured him he was fine, as long as Canada won. Turned out to be a nice guy.

I also saw the Tuck Rule Game there.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's just that at certain salaries you can't not score.
- joel878

Disagree, I think it’s more about the full game and not simply scoring.

Disagree, I think it’s more about the full game and not simply scoring.
- Dozzer

I flagged Zezel's post for saying bad things about the Madison Pub - can you please ban him for life?

Thanks

If you want to go by last year’s numbers which a lot of people dismiss because apparently we were playing ECHL teams, Leafs D were ranked 6th or 7th in the League in GA
- Canada Cup

I think it’s safe to say it won’t be anywhere near that this season

Marner is an excellent player. His effectiveness on the PP is limited IMO because his shot is not particularly strong or accurate. Having him on the point is also a questionable strategy IMO, because the defender knows he will probably pass instead of shooting so the defender has a sigificant advantage. Nylander at the point on the first PP unit would make more sense. His shot is excellent and defenders would have to defend against both the shot and pass options. I haven't seen WAR stats or GAR stats for 2021, but would think that Matthews was easily the top forward in both categories. Neither Marner or Matthews have hit their peak productivity yet.
- winsix

Both are great players but are far different players…. It amazes me that people don’t see that.

I will agree about wishing Marner would shoot a bit more on the PP however

I flagged Zezel's post for saying bad things about the Madison Pub - can you please ban him for life?

Thanks
- Atomic Wedgie

Hahahaha

Never been there myself, just looked at some pics and the place looks way to clean

I think it’s safe to say it won’t be anywhere near that this season
- Dozzer

7 fewer games against McJesus, and a bunch against Sabres and awnings, etc. But yeah I agree.

I think it’s good that they’re playing TB and Boston. They need reality checks throughout the year.

Hahahaha

Never been there myself, just looked at some pics and the place looks way to clean
- Dozzer

It was quite the “pop your collar” place in its day

7 fewer games against McJesus, and a bunch against Sabres and awnings, etc. But yeah I agree.

I think it’s good that they’re playing TB and Boston. They need reality checks throughout the year.
- Canada Cup

When do you think their window of opportunity opens?

https://www.health.gov.on...ses_and_organizations.pdf

This might help you Wedgie.


Notice that the sex clubs get to re-open.

Marner is an excellent player. His effectiveness on the PP is limited IMO because his shot is not particularly strong or accurate. Having him on the point is also a questionable strategy IMO, because the defender knows he will probably pass instead of shooting so the defender has a sigificant advantage. Nylander at the point on the first PP unit would make more sense. His shot is excellent and defenders would have to defend against both the shot and pass options. I haven't seen WAR stats or GAR stats for 2021, but would think that Matthews was easily the top forward in both categories. Neither Marner or Matthews have hit their peak productivity yet.
- winsix

What I remember of a good PP was Matthews and Willie on the wings with good movement between them. I think they need to replicate that with Marner, Rielly and one of JT, Ritchie or Bunting providing retrieval/net presence.

It was quite the “pop your collar” place in its day
- Canada Cup

For those of you who have never been, it started as a big house that was converted into a bar. It became so popular they bought the house next door and connected them. So it was a bar that was chopped up into a bunch of smaller rooms.

Well, to start, there was one room upstairs that was non-smoking. It had huge lineups. So eventually they started converting more an more rooms to non-smoking. But really slowly.

It always frustrated the hell out of me, because you could clearly see that supply was smaller than demand for non-smoking.

FFS, they just should have made the entire place smoke-free.