Pretty sure he didn't invent them but maybe had design input or was part of an initial study or beta launch for one of the companies. There are a lot of top doctors that train for the cervical disc companies and also on design teams. Basically mirroring what he has done.

Its really hard and a matter of opinion from different docs across the US will probably be a little more fusion to TDR. But the case is there for either, its not a hard no for the TDR like it is kind of being portrait. There is too much data out there Now it comes down to the surgeon and what they have experienced and of course the patient.

I imagine for example the docs that have done TDRs on MMA and NFL would be pro TDR here. Just like other surgeons that have done the same but with fusion. So many variables to this scenario that it is too hard to just 100% go with what 1 surgeon is saying. They don't have a ranking system for neuro or ortho spine surgeons to rank them better than another when you are talking about high profile surgeons. So I wouldn't say Cap is the best cervical surgeon out there basically. Don't get me wrong he is a great surgeon. But taking his word and only his with 80 million on the line is worth Jack asking around.
- KOS

I have no problem with Jack getting a 2nd opinion, poop talk to as many as you need if you can afford it. Well they need to agree on something. If he has either Surgery in May he would be 3 months out and you would have a good feeling for his health right now. This whole thing has been a sh!t storm.

I have no problem with Jack getting a 2nd opinion, poop talk to as many as you need if you can afford it. Well they need to agree on something. If he has either Surgery in May he would be 3 months out and you would have a good feeling for his health right now. This whole thing has been a sh!t storm.
- Buff36

For sure. I am not a Sabres fan but feel for what you guys are going through. Same for Jack. I have actually worked with a few surgeons you hear in the media that have operated on pro athletes. This is a very interesting topic for debate. But is a media $hit show and legal nightmare no matter how you look at it. Going to be a rough ride.

For sure. I am not a Sabres fan but feel for what you guys are going through. Same for Jack. I have actually worked with a few surgeons you hear in the media that have operated on pro athletes. This is a very interesting topic for debate. But is a media $hit show and legal nightmare no matter how you look at it. Going to be a rough ride.
- KOS

Jack F@cked us at his end of year zoom, I just want to see him gone. Glad Adams has stuck to his guns, but a decision needs to be made.

I have no problem with Jack getting a 2nd opinion, poop talk to as many as you need if you can afford it. Well they need to agree on something. If he has either Surgery in May he would be 3 months out and you would have a good feeling for his health right now. This whole thing has been a sh!t storm.
- Buff36

I think they are being overly optimistic with the recovery time regardless of which surgery he gets. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I was told full fusion can take up to a year, and they are very likely going to give it plenty of time considering he's a hockey player. Maybe KOS can elaborate further on this, but I doubt he plays at all this season.

Jack F@cked us at his end of year zoom, I just want to see him gone. Glad Adams has stuck to his guns, but a decision needs to be made.
- Buff36

Agreed. That contract, his health and the whole media thing. Brutal.

I think they are being overly optimistic with the recovery time regardless of which surgery he gets. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I was told full fusion can take up to a year, and they are very likely going to give it plenty of time considering he's a hockey player. Maybe KOS can elaborate further on this, but I doubt he plays at all this season.
- joevthree

Really depends on the individual and how serious they listen to the Doctor, plus it depends on how many stages it is.

Jack loved Ralph and played the best hockey of his career under him. Easy to forget that after last season.
- Lunaion

Good point.

I just kinda attributed eichel's growth to his age and moving skimmer off his line.

Ralph should get some credit.

I think they are being overly optimistic with the recovery time regardless of which surgery he gets. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I was told full fusion can take up to a year, and they are very likely going to give it plenty of time considering he's a hockey player. Maybe KOS can elaborate further on this, but I doubt he plays at all this season.
- joevthree

Bone healing and growth should be about 3 months for it to fuse. TDR doesn't fuse, but there can be some growth that happens of the endplates to the surface of the TDR. That basically helps hold the position of the implant. It only has to grow a short distance Compared to one vertebral body to the other for fusion. Significant bone growth needs to occur in comparison to a TDR

In a fusion case if there is micro motion you can get what is a called a non union. Basically the bone doesn't grow enough to create a solid fusion.

There is a strong possibility he is good after 3 months is not out of the realm. Potentially a better chance at 3 months with TDR compared to fusion. At least in my opinion, but I am not a surgeon so I am taking a stab here ,as this could be another hot debate topic.. But I have no idea what all of his symptoms are. So there could be some severe nerve issues or maybe even damage. If that is the case it could take longer for those nerves to heal regardless of which procedure he gets. We will prob get a good gage a couple weeks post op.

A data point I don't have but would love to, would be to know what athletes from what sport have either procedure. Then the outcomes, recovery and playing success post op. Additional years playing etc. A journal review on that would be interesting and definitely would paint a nice picture for this scenario. There may be a different number than 3 months. I think with his fusion he may be out longer than 3.

I can't believe that Craig Anderson is our starting goalie

They should have extended ullmark though? Bad asset management.

Now he's a giant question mark?

The 4 moves looked good to me admittedly as a homer.

Hall was exciting
Stahl was a huge upgrade over Johansson for me
Reider was a nhl vet cheap forward
Cody . Eakin I thought would produce more goals than larry
- Boss34

Hutton was the major part of the goaltending question mark.

My max Ullmark offer would've been $4M per for 4 to 5 years.

If he said no, I'd have traded him and looked to find 2 goaltenders, not just one to replace Hutton.

I had a difficult time believing they were a playoff team with a tandem of Ullmark and Hutton in net last season, and that's not even counting the questions elsewhere on the team.

Hutton was the major part of the goaltending question mark.

My max Ullmark offer would've been $4M per for 4 to 5 years.

If he said no, I'd have traded him and looked to find 2 goaltenders, not just one to replace Hutton.

I had a difficult time believing they were a playoff team with a tandem of Ullmark and Hutton in net last season, and that's not even counting the questions elsewhere on the team.
- kingcong39

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. When the toughest guys on your team are the goaltenders that get literally pounded on regularly this = very little success. Very soft team and until this is fixed might as well bring in a nice soft goalie to complete the set.

- stashu

OH MY

I have no problem with Jack getting a 2nd opinion, poop talk to as many as you need if you can afford it. Well they need to agree on something. If he has either Surgery in May he would be 3 months out and you would have a good feeling for his health right now. This whole thing has been a sh!t storm.
- Buff36

the second, third, 4th, and 5th opinion should have been done months ago


both sides have dirt on their hands with this topic

I can't believe that Craig Anderson is our starting goalie
- chilliard77

seriously, they couldn't even get Greg Goldberg

I can't believe that Craig Anderson is our starting goalie
- chilliard77

It's gonna be brutal.

Montreal should take the picks.

*Hides*
- Pegullaville

Harrington seems to think the Sabres should allow Jack to get the surgery he wants, get him back in the lineup, tell him we'll get you out of here, but you've got to just shut up, play, and show the rest of the league that you're back.
- Powerslave

Hmmm, sounds familiar.

Eichel talk from Friedman at the 18 minute mark.

According to Elliotte, there was a meeting in Buffalo on Wednesday 8/18 with the Sabres, Eichel, Eichel's former agents, the NHL, and the NHLPA. The Sabres and Eichel each presented their viewpoint, and there was no resolution as each side only dug in more.

https://podcast.sportsnet...mmer-offer-sheet-special/

I didn't take it that way, no worries.

Well Degenerative disc disease (DDD), is just that degenerative. So multiple fusions could be in his future. The bail out for the TDR is a fusion. But the TDR are also approved for 2 levels. So even if he needs another procedure later in life her could have another disc and preserve his motion. I prob would get a TDR, mma fighters have them and they are holding up. But quality of life later and the ability to keep as much motion as possible to play at that speed is probably on his mind too. 2 levels of disc instead of 2 fused levels. ACDF is however, still the gold standard in care. They outcomes have been, for a long time, extremely solid. The papers with 10 year data is out for TDR and approval for 2 levels was granted. So there is now hard evidence for his request to be legit. It is a very good debate in my opinion.

Either way, he is real young to have to have a cervical procedure. My concern for you guys is the length of the contract. Hopefully it is insured. But I am skeptical of how quickly his play will decline. I would guess 5 years he is good once he fully heals. But he may not make the last 3 of his contract.
- KOS

GREAT Post. Really appreciate this input.
It is a complicated issue.

I also think it is important to keep in mind that the Sabres medical team that is lead by a Dr with incredible expertise in this area; is hired and paid to protect the assets of the Sabres. Not that they would screw the player, but when it comes down to it, protecting the Sabres interests are what Pegula's pay for. I am sure as a human, the long-term post contract conditions are a consideration naturally, but the short-term contract period results trump those.

As I understand it, Fushion is the "gold standard" because of the a) high success in addressing the immediate issue and b) the length of time the procedure has been around.it is tried and true. It is a good surgery to address the immediate issue, but it also opens up additional issues down the road. That does not mean a new procedure is less effective, as the success rate for Replacement is high as well...of course, under the right conditions. The big difference is in the long-term studies given the relative recency of the procedure...but short and medium length studies for Replacement are proving very positive results including increased mobility...a critical factor for a world-class athlete. The long-term potential for additional Fusion surgeries to adjacent discs also increases, usually within 10-15 years...and then again potentially after that 2nd surgery additional surgeries may be required. For a man at age 25, that is a pretty frightening outlook.

From my reading on Replacement Surgery there is a significant difference between success rates between Cervical and Lumbar replacements..largely because the significantly greater weight load on the Lumbar Area which presents much different conditions and challenges...one should not mix the two in the same discussion when speaking to treatment in one area.

I continue to be baffled by those who brush this off using the simple argument of it is in the CBA. For Jack, it isn't that simple.

Eichel talk from Friedman at the 18 minute mark.

According to Elliotte, there was a meeting in Buffalo on Wednesday 8/18 with the Sabres, Eichel, Eichel's former agents, the NHL, and the NHLPA. The Sabres and Eichel each presented their viewpoint, and there was no resolution as each side only dug in more.

https://podcast.sportsnet...mmer-offer-sheet-special/
- kingcong39

Very interesting.
Boy I would love to be able to hear that conversation.

Also interesting is Jack firing his Agent thereafter...I wonder about the implications there.

Very interesting.
Boy I would love to be able to hear that conversation.

Also interesting is Jack firing his Agent thereafter...I wonder about the implications there.
- IonSabres

Jack went full Veruca after the meeting, firing his agents in a dramatic tantrum

Jack went full Veruca after the meeting, firing his agents in a dramatic tantrum
- Ratsreign

Jack went full Veruca after the meeting, firing his agents in a dramatic tantrum
- Ratsreign

qb A
160 games
record 101-59
35467 passing yards
60.1 completion percentage
237 td's
135 ints

Hall of Fame


qb B
156 games
record 78-49
34183 passing yards
65.3 completion percentage
248 tds
117 ints

won't sniff the hall of fame

the contract for Kotkaniemi is
6,100,000.15


the 15 cents is Kotkaniemi's jersey number




this gets better by the minute

well played Carolina