You have a legit point about the bottom six but I look at the leadership of the Aves compared to the Hawks in their hey day and there’s no comparison. If that idiot Kadri would grow up and stop getting suspended in the playoffs that would be huge. I look at Toews, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook etc and think they’d work with a guy like Kadri to play on the edge but not over it similar to Shaw, Eager, Buff etc.
- paulr

Avs don't have the top 4 on the backend like the Hawks did. That and the 2010 was beyond stacked. You need also secondary scoring in the playoffs and top 6 guys that will grind out 2 way hockey come playoff time.

Hawks had Sharp (yes he was a good 2 way player come playoff time), Saad, Toews, and Hossa.

Wow, they gave 'Moose' Vasko's number to Jones? Big shoes to fill.

MacKenzie Entwistle is a kid I want to see more of. While I understand the label of him being a "4th liner" I think he still can potentially hit that 3rd line output. The role player who does their job but still has a nose for the net to get that 12-15 goals and 30-35 points. Maybe he doesn't get there, but I don't think that ship has sailed yet when he is just 22 years old.
- breadbag

Entwistle will be the 3C for the Hawks by the start of the next season ('22-'23).

Entwistle will be the 3C for the Hawks by the start of the next season ('22-'23).
- scottak

Entwistle hasn’t shown he’s capable of securing a spot in the line up yet. What makes you sure he’ll get to the third line?

I was a guest on a podcast yesterday with Chicago Tomahawk. Check it out if interested. Thank you to Mike and Matt for inviting me.

https://player.captivate....4-23bbb8f476bd/episode=53

p.s. Feel free to rip me apart with my 3rd place prediction in the Central for the Hawks this season! I can explain...sorta...
- Theo Fox

As a podcaster myself, you sounded good. Clear & well-thought out. Better than those baboons.

I wish I could agree with your prediction, I'll settle for wild card.

You have a legit point.
- paulr

Paulr playing some 3D chess on the board today.

This is not a shot at Theo or any of the work done at HockeyBuzz...but are there any sites that do deep dives on prospects in the system. I'm thinking of how hockeysfuture used to do it a while back where you could get info on most if not all of the prospects for any team rather than a top-ten list without any real detail.

Paulr playing some 3D chess on the board today.
- Chunk

3D chess? I’m not even capable of playing checkers

Now the Aves have to figure out how to put it together. The Hawks were able to get Hossa to round out the team. The Aves lack something I can’t put my finger on? Maybe experience? Maybe a certain player?
- paulr

Saad

Woops, never mind

Entwistle hasn’t shown he’s capable of securing a spot in the line up yet. What makes you sure he’ll get to the third line?
- paulr

I'm not sure, but from what I've seen of him going back to his time at the WJC, that's where I believe he'll end up.

We can reconvene here in 14 months and see.

A true #1 goalie may be the most important player on the team. Maybe why Montreal (Price), Vegas (Fleury), Tampa (Vasilevskiy) were in the final 4. (You can make the case that the Islanders were there because the goaltending for Boston, Washington, and Pittsburgh was not exactly stellar.)

However you only need to find one or develop one and then hold onto them. You do not need be 4 or 6 or 10 deep in your system. One elite goalie can block a 2nd elite goalie for several seasons.

Do the Hawks have an elite goalie? At times last year Lankinen looked elite with a defense in front of him resembling the keystone Cops. Crawford was 26 when he became the #1 goalie and won his first cup at 28. Lankinen is 25, Soderblom 22, Commesso 19. Are any of the 4 elite? Not sure. Could they be good enough to win a cup? Since 2000 Raanta was, Crawford was, Cam Ward was, Giguere was, Murray was, Khabibulin was, Osgood was, Thomas was, etc... As important as the goalie position is, it is still a team game and like the Hawks with Niemi and Crawford, you need a good team around them and you need them to be really good in most of the playoff games.
- -Doh-

Am I missing something here? Maybe Niemi?

Really? You don't remember that one game where Lankinen let in that softie and turned the momentum of the....
- Chunk

Every goalie has a bad game. See Tukka Rask, game 6 SCF 2013.

In total, those two goalies were fine and did not keep us from the playoffs.

Every goalie has a bad game. See Tukka Rask, game 6 SCF 2013.

In total, those two goalies were fine and did not keep us from the playoffs.
- rpeters01

Yup. That's the point I was making (albeit in sarcastic joke form). It's much less funny when it is explained.

One reason why I am (overly) optimistic about this season and the Hawks chances for a non-wild card playoff spot is Fleury. On paper, the blueline looks better but we'll see how it holds up.

But Fleury can at least keep the Hawks in games. The rest of the team needs to pull their weight by defending well and executing on the fundamentals.

If they don't, then Fleury standing on his head can only take a team so far.

That 3rd place prediction is the optimist in me. The realist says fighting for a wild card.
- Theo Fox

Theo love your optimism but have disagree with hawks making the playoffs or even as a wild card. Towes situation is still unclear seeing the defense got better and upgrade in goal helps. Outside of kane dcat and Kubalik don't know where the other scoring is coming from. Dach yes he looks like he is going to be a very good player but needs to prove it and show it. Nylander and borgstrom unknowns and didn't get a lot out of the bottom 6 six the last couple of seasons. And there is the coaching IN ALL fairness JC and brookBank were rushed and not ready for nhl still aren't imo. Then there is defensive system that the team in general seems to struggle with. Plus the lack of phyiscallity in the forward group is alarming. I hope i m wrong but i just don't see it happening and now playing better competition going forward. It will be a tough task. Hawks will be better than last year and more watchable but an uphill battle is what they up against.

Two are old men and one of them a big if, another a midget, an unproven kid and a 3rd liner. Overrate your players and you are doomed to failure.
- rpeters01

Yea but you underate all of them

A true #1 goalie may be the most important player on the team. Maybe why Montreal (Price), Vegas (Fleury), Tampa (Vasilevskiy) were in the final 4. (You can make the case that the Islanders were there because the goaltending for Boston, Washington, and Pittsburgh was not exactly stellar.)

However you only need to find one or develop one and then hold onto them. You do not need be 4 or 6 or 10 deep in your system. One elite goalie can block a 2nd elite goalie for several seasons.

Do the Hawks have an elite goalie? At times last year Lankinen looked elite with a defense in front of him resembling the keystone Cops. Crawford was 26 when he became the #1 goalie and won his first cup at 28. Lankinen is 25, Soderblom 22, Commesso 19. Are any of the 4 elite? Not sure. Could they be good enough to win a cup? Since 2000 Raanta was, Crawford was, Cam Ward was, Giguere was, Murray was, Khabibulin was, Osgood was, Thomas was, etc... As important as the goalie position is, it is still a team game and like the Hawks with Niemi and Crawford, you need a good team around them and you need them to be really good in most of the playoff games.
- -Doh-

A true number one goalie is no more important than a #1C, or #1D man. A standout goalie makes it easier to win with a less than stellar team out front, and a stellar team out front makes it easier to get by with a less than stellar netminder. IMO you’re more likely to win it all with a great team and average goalie than the other way around. You’d like to have it all obviously, but hard to do in a cap world.

Avs don't have the top 4 on the backend like the Hawks did. That and the 2010 was beyond stacked. You need also secondary scoring in the playoffs and top 6 guys that will grind out 2 way hockey come playoff time.

Hawks had Sharp (yes he was a good 2 way player come playoff time), Saad, Toews, and Hossa.
- bhawks2241

Their biggest weakness was Grubauer and look at the foolish gm who signed him, no wonder why the new owner from Carolina fired him

A true #1 goalie may be the most important player on the team. Maybe why Montreal (Price), Vegas (Fleury), Tampa (Vasilevskiy) were in the final 4. (You can make the case that the Islanders were there because the goaltending for Boston, Washington, and Pittsburgh was not exactly stellar.)

However you only need to find one or develop one and then hold onto them. You do not need be 4 or 6 or 10 deep in your system. One elite goalie can block a 2nd elite goalie for several seasons.

Do the Hawks have an elite goalie? At times last year Lankinen looked elite with a defense in front of him resembling the keystone Cops. Crawford was 26 when he became the #1 goalie and won his first cup at 28. Lankinen is 25, Soderblom 22, Commesso 19. Are any of the 4 elite? Not sure. Could they be good enough to win a cup? Since 2000 Raanta was, Crawford was, Cam Ward was, Giguere was, Murray was, Khabibulin was, Osgood was, Thomas was, etc... As important as the goalie position is, it is still a team game and like the Hawks with Niemi and Crawford, you need a good team around them and you need them to be really good in most of the playoff games.
- -Doh-

That is a great point that you don't need to be 4-5 deep in the goalie pipeline. It would be a luxury but not a necessity. As long as you have one on the big club and one in the pipeline, that's minimal. More is great, of course.

Then if you have excess, that's where you trade from a place of strength to gain assets to fill other needs. Although not a requirement, it would be nice to trade an excess goalie who has great potential to a team outside of the division and really even outside of the conference.

A true number one goalie is no more important than a #1C, or #1D man. A standout goalie makes it easier to win with a less than stellar team out front, and a stellar team out front makes it easier to get by with a less than stellar netminder. IMO you’re more likely to win it all with a great team and average goalie than the other way around. You’d like to have it all obviously, but hard to do in a cap world.
- Ogilthorpe2

I think there's truth to the bolded part of your post, particularly in hockey. In baseball, for example as a contrast, teams shrink their starting rotation to their best starters who can carry a team even if their offense's bats are asleep.

That seems harder to do in hockey unless the team can shoot out the lights every game and consistently win barn burners. Or the defense is so suffocating that the goalie has easy games by not seeing a barrage of shots especially high-danger ones.

As a podcaster myself, you sounded good. Clear & well-thought out. Better than those baboons.

I wish I could agree with your prediction, I'll settle for wild card.
- I Am The Breadman

Thanks, Breadman. The hosts are good folks.

For my prediction, yeah, I had a little more of the crazy juice called optimism than even I would've liked. Popping a realism pill once the pharmacy refills my Rx.

This is not a shot at Theo or any of the work done at HockeyBuzz...but are there any sites that do deep dives on prospects in the system. I'm thinking of how hockeysfuture used to do it a while back where you could get info on most if not all of the prospects for any team rather than a top-ten list without any real detail.
- Champstache

Not many websites that do exactly as you're describing. If you're on Twitter, I would highly recommend Wally Maz's account Chicago Prospects. He posts videos and updates on prospects regularly.

https://twitter.com/Chi_Prospects

Theo love your optimism but have disagree with hawks making the playoffs or even as a wild card. Towes situation is still unclear seeing the defense got better and upgrade in goal helps. Outside of kane dcat and Kubalik don't know where the other scoring is coming from. Dach yes he looks like he is going to be a very good player but needs to prove it and show it. Nylander and borgstrom unknowns and didn't get a lot out of the bottom 6 six the last couple of seasons. And there is the coaching IN ALL fairness JC and brookBank were rushed and not ready for nhl still aren't imo. Then there is defensive system that the team in general seems to struggle with. Plus the lack of phyiscallity in the forward group is alarming. I hope i m wrong but i just don't see it happening and now playing better competition going forward. It will be a tough task. Hawks will be better than last year and more watchable but an uphill battle is what they up against.
- Scott1977

Definitely lots of questions marks with this team but as others have pointed out, nearly every team has question marks.

There's also the weirdness of sports where teams that are predicted to shine end up falling flat and where other teams do the opposite.

At least as far as the offense, I'm not too worried about that. It's the least of the Hawks concern. Same with goaltending with Fleury in the fold.

More concern with the blueline specifically and team defense as a whole. Special teams, too.

Some of the worry can be attributed to whether Colliton and crew are the right coaches to get the job done. Worry can also be attributed to execution by the players.

Definitely lots of questions marks with this team but as others have pointed out, nearly every team has question marks.

There's also the weirdness of sports where teams that are predicted to shine end up falling flat and where other teams do the opposite.

At least as far as the offense, I'm not too worried about that. It's the least of the Hawks concern. Same with goaltending with Fleury in the fold.

More concern with the blueline specifically and team defense as a whole. Special teams, too.

Some of the worry can be attributed to whether Colliton and crew are the right coaches to get the job done. Worry can also be attributed to execution by the players.
- Theo Fox

ok i guess we all will see when the puck drops.

Theo love your optimism but have disagree with hawks making the playoffs or even as a wild card. Towes situation is still unclear seeing the defense got better and upgrade in goal helps. Outside of kane dcat and Kubalik don't know where the other scoring is coming from. Dach yes he looks like he is going to be a very good player but needs to prove it and show it. Nylander and borgstrom unknowns and didn't get a lot out of the bottom 6 six the last couple of seasons. And there is the coaching IN ALL fairness JC and brookBank were rushed and not ready for nhl still aren't imo. Then there is defensive system that the team in general seems to struggle with. Plus the lack of phyiscallity in the forward group is alarming. I hope i m wrong but i just don't see it happening and now playing better competition going forward. It will be a tough task. Hawks will be better than last year and more watchable but an uphill battle is what they up against.
- Scott1977

I couldn't agree more. What they need is more of a cycle game among top six forwards and start filtering in more gritty underrated Rockford forwards on bottom two lines. I do not see how Strome fits in. I agree with Theo he is worth more than many on the board want to claim; if we use him in second line role then we aren't in a good position. It may take a while before he is moved.

Also I am hoping competition for jobs stirs good effort

This is probably a better team, defensely, than lost in playoffs to Vegas. Not enough add or change offensively since then to change the outcome. Dach I don't think is going to be a monster soon enough as he could help.

I couldn't agree more. What they need is more of a cycle game among top six forwards and start filtering in more gritty underrated Rockford forwards on bottom two lines. I do not see how Strome fits in. I agree with Theo he is worth more than many on the board want to claim; if we use him in second line role then we aren't in a good position. It may take a while before he is moved.

Also I am hoping competition for jobs stirs good effort

This is probably a better team, defensely, than lost in playoffs to Vegas. Not enough add or change offensively since then to change the outcome. Dach I don't think is going to be a monster soon enough as he could help.
- jhawk59

If hawks can have a sustainable forecheck. Will take pressure off the defense and goaltending. Ottawa makes sense for strome and possibly subban also what the return could be maybe a 2nd and 5th 2022 possibly. Other teams buffalo rangers Vegas Detroit.