I think they do. The official stats of the NHL are direct evidence that can be used in arbitration. They carry a lot of weight.
- MJL

What are the official stats of the NHl

The Flyers wouldn’t have filed for arbitration (rare for team to file) if them and the player agreed on his value. Sanheim played a lot of minutes on a bad, bad d core and his numbers bare that out. I can’t see a long term deal being the outcome, but I also hope the Flyers don’t over pay him short term either. The arbitration put the long term deal on the blocks if they actually get that far…I believe the longest deal that can be signed is 2 years if the arbitration happens….being that he is now the 4th best d man on this team, how much cap should the Flyers allocate for him ? He’s worth no more then he got last year, but the market probably means an overpay.
- landros 2

IIRC, in cases where the team files for arbitration, the player choses a one or two year term. If I'm Sanheim, I go to arbitration and then choose a two year term which I believe walks him right into UFA status.

I fondly remember when you and I were having a previous discussion and I suggested the Flyers pursue Larsson and you replied with typical hyperbole that Larsson was not good and was a 3rd pair defenseman.
- MJL

Ahh ... once again I think you are mixing me up with someone else. I have posted several times at least that I hoped Fletcher signed Larsson if he and Edmonton could not work something out, and I was very disappointed when Larsson signed with Seattle, especially for such a reasonable contract. Anyone on his forum that reads any of my posts knows this to be true.

So last year Myers, Sanheim, Provorov and Gostisbehere all showed deficiencies. As well as Haag. Braun had to move up and play higher. What does this tell you since you watched each and every game?
- MJL

This is what last year told me. Myers Sucks with a capital 'S', and now he's gone. Ghost also Sucks with a capital 'S', and now he's gone. Haag is nothing more than a marginal NHL defenseman that was a throw in to a deal to make the cap work, so now he's gone. That makes me 3 for 3! I didn't blame Braun for his performance last year because it was clear he was being misused, nor did I blame Provorov, who I felt had way too much on his shoulders to be successful. Funny how they are still here, eh? I didn't really blame Sanheim either, because he was stuck playing with Myers. Overall I like Sanheim and would like the Flyers to keep him, but not if his asking price puts him up there with defenseman like Risto, Sergachev, Pulock or McAvoy, because he has not demonstrated he is as good as any of these players in this price range IMO.

This is what last year told me. Myers Sucks with a capital 'S', and now he's gone. Ghost also Sucks with a capital 'S', and now he's gone. Haag is nothing more than a marginal NHL defenseman that was a throw in to a deal to make the cap work, so now he's gone. That makes me 3 for 3! I didn't blame Braun for his performance last year because it was clear he was being misused, nor did I blame Provorov, who I felt had way too much on his shoulders to be successful. Funny how they are still here, eh? I didn't really blame Sanheim either, because he was stuck playing with Myers. Overall I like Sanheim and would like the Flyers to keep him, but not if his asking price puts him up there with defenseman like Risto, Sergachev, Pulock or McAvoy, because he has not demonstrated he is as good as any of these players in this price range IMO.
- jd250

Provorov had a horrid season and deserves plenty of blame.

Just throwing this out there…. I believe in arbitration the arbitrator chooses between the players contract and the teams. I don’t think they have the power to make their own decision anymore. It’s either or… so if sandy wins his case he could be getting god only knows. Maybe he’s asking for 6 mil per year. I don’t think this ends well for philly if they go the distance with this.

What you do is only use the stats that fit your premise and dismiss the rest or try and diminish them somehow. The best you can do is post crap like he sucks or he's not worth it. If were doing a full statistical analysis and looking at the entire picture, Sanheim has very strong numbers. Sanheim's ES point totals are extremely strong. His overall play is strong. You don't even realize what you're asking for. Were not talking about an elite player that separates himself from other NHL defenseman. We're talking about a solid young top 4 NHL defenseman and where he slots in the NHL market. A salary of 5M a year does not separate him from most of the NHL. What are you talking about?

- MJL

Let's just call it the way it is, you believe Sanheim is a solid top 4 NHL defenseman that deserves to be paid in the $5M range because ... drum roll please ... he was drafted by Ron Hextall in the first round. If he was drafted and developed by anyone else, Holmgren, Fletcher, whomever, you would not be defending him as much as you are. I don't have anything against Sanheim and would love to see how he plays this year next to Risto, but don't give me any garbage that Sanheim deserves to be paid like a top 4 NHL defenseman because IMO he has not demonstrated that yet.

Provorov had a horrid season and deserves plenty of blame.
- ClaudeFather

Yes, he did have a bad season by his standards, but I think it was a combination of excessive minutes per game and him feeling like he had to make up for the goalie and the rest of the team defense overall.

Ahh ... once again I think you are mixing me up with someone else. I have posted several times at least that I hoped Fletcher signed Larsson if he and Edmonton could not work something out, and I was very disappointed when Larsson signed with Seattle, especially for such a reasonable contract. Anyone on his forum that reads any of my posts knows this to be true.
- jd250

pretty sure you were saying he stinks and then weirdly flipped your stance later on.

Yes, he did have a bad season by his standards, but I think it was a combination of excessive minutes per game and him feeling like he had to make up for the goalie and the rest of the team defense overall.
- jd250

He was a part of the problem, not the solution. You are trying to paint him as the latter. His ice time is equivalent of his last 3 years. He sucked and needs to be much better.

The Flyers wouldn’t have filed for arbitration (rare for team to file) if them and the player agreed on his value. Sanheim played a lot of minutes on a bad, bad d core and his numbers bare that out. I can’t see a long term deal being the outcome, but I also hope the Flyers don’t over pay him short term either. The arbitration put the long term deal on the blocks if they actually get that far…I believe the longest deal that can be signed is 2 years if the arbitration happens….being that he is now the 4th best d man on this team, how much cap should the Flyers allocate for him ? He’s worth no more then he got last year, but the market probably means an overpay.
- landros 2

Yes, exactly, Sanheim should not get a significant raise from last season, he just didn't earn it! The eye test, the numbers, they are support this premise.

Just throwing this out there…. I believe in arbitration the arbitrator chooses between the players contract and the teams. I don’t think they have the power to make their own decision anymore. It’s either or… so if sandy wins his case he could be getting god only knows. Maybe he’s asking for 6 mil per year. I don’t think this ends well for philly if they go the distance with this.
- Stayin alive

I don’t think that’s the case at all.

The problem is if last year wasnt an outlier, and if chuck did nothing this offseason "hoping" to bounce back and they didn't.....then what? We all hope last year was an outlier, but what if the previous season was the outlier, when they played amazing for that 30 game stretch.
- bradster

IMO, the previous season was the outlier, not last year. This is a team that suffered from the same problems year after year, i.e. slow starts, not ready to play and compete, streaky play: win 10 games in a row, then lose 10 games in a row, they are slow, lack shooters and are too soft to play against. Fletcher rightly pointed out "you can't keep bringing back the same players and expect different results". It has been tried for several years and multiple head coaches. Something needed to change and the team needed a shakeup. Again, I applaud Fletcher for having the guts to break some glass and change the mix in the room. I am confident it will be much better this year and the result will be real, not an outlier.

I don’t think that’s the case at all.
- ClaudeFather

he makes up things pretty regularly, so...

he makes up things pretty regularly, so...
- Ftown19125

Kind of crazy to throw your own scenario on a well documented case haha

Yes, exactly, Sanheim should not get a significant raise from last season, he just didn't earn it! The eye test, the numbers, they are support this premise.
- jd250

I would be fine with giving him a modest raise from his current contract. BUT, $5M, which some "stat guys" say he is worth is too rich for our situation. If he is asking for that then let it go to arbitration, live with whatever number they come back with and prepare to deal him in the off-season or at TDL.

I agree that a deal should have been done by now if he was part of a long term plan. We have time to get cap compliant and make moves.

Never had escarole sauteed or in a soup? Or grilled endive? Try it you might like it.
- Tomahawk

Welcome to the Green Grocer! Napa cabbage in pozole is a must!

Unpopular thought, Unpopular opinion, but I think we’ve all thought about it.

I’ve read on a few rumor sites and I’ve read even here on this board that the Flyers may trade Oskar Lindblom. I don’t buy it but he would easily be my guy to move to find a tougher and grittier player at forward. Like to me, Nate Thompson bring our toughest forward is embarrassing. We don’t even want Thompson in the line up. Now this isn’t me saying Lindblom is a bad player or he can’t be what he was before he got cancer. He’s a very hard working kid with a decent two way game. I am saying he would be my odd man out though but the Flyers won’t move him because it’s too soon after the cancer.

Welcome to the Green Grocer! Napa cabbage in pozole is a must!
- corduroy

Joe Carcione with your tip of the day

This is what last year told me. Myers Sucks with a capital 'S', and now he's gone. Ghost also Sucks with a capital 'S', and now he's gone. Haag is nothing more than a marginal NHL defenseman that was a throw in to a deal to make the cap work, so now he's gone. That makes me 3 for 3! I didn't blame Braun for his performance last year because it was clear he was being misused, nor did I blame Provorov, who I felt had way too much on his shoulders to be successful. Funny how they are still here, eh? I didn't really blame Sanheim either, because he was stuck playing with Myers. Overall I like Sanheim and would like the Flyers to keep him, but not if his asking price puts him up there with defenseman like Risto, Sergachev, Pulock or McAvoy, because he has not demonstrated he is as good as any of these players in this price range IMO.
- jd250

pretty sure you were saying he stinks and then weirdly flipped your stance later on.
- Ftown19125

Ding ding sing

Unpopular thought, Unpopular opinion, but I think we’ve all thought about it.

I’ve read on a few rumor sites and I’ve read even here on this board that the Flyers may trade Oskar Lindblom. I don’t buy it but he would easily be my guy to move to find a tougher and grittier player at forward. Like to me, Nate Thompson bring our toughest forward is embarrassing. We don’t even want Thompson in the line up. Now this isn’t me saying Lindblom is a bad player or he can’t be what he was before he got cancer. He’s a very hard working kid with a decent two way game. I am saying he would be my odd man out though but the Flyers won’t move him because it’s too soon after the cancer.
- SuperSchennBros

I’m hoping if the Flyers have to move one more forward this offseason that it would be NAK. Left wing is pretty flexible with Farabee very good at RW and Giroux, Laughton and Bunnaman all able to play center. Lindblom’s two-way and transition game are needed IMO.

pretty sure you were saying he stinks and then weirdly flipped your stance later on.
- Ftown19125

I never thought Larsson was an offensive defenseman nor a top pairing defenseman, but I came to realize that this Flyers team needed to get bigger and tougher on the backend, and valued Larsson's game as an anchor for a 2nd pairing. So I was never high on him as a partner to Provorov, so that may be what you are referring to. But overall I like Larsson and would have been happy if he signed the same deal in Philly. However, it appears Fletcher had his eyes on Risto to fill that spot so I don't think the Flyers were in on Larsson at all.

Ding ding sing
- THE BLACK HAND

Oh good the class clown has something funny to post ... he he he

Unpopular thought, Unpopular opinion, but I think we’ve all thought about it.

I’ve read on a few rumor sites and I’ve read even here on this board that the Flyers may trade Oskar Lindblom. I don’t buy it but he would easily be my guy to move to find a tougher and grittier player at forward. Like to me, Nate Thompson bring our toughest forward is embarrassing. We don’t even want Thompson in the line up. Now this isn’t me saying Lindblom is a bad player or he can’t be what he was before he got cancer. He’s a very hard working kid with a decent two way game. I am saying he would be my odd man out though but the Flyers won’t move him because it’s too soon after the cancer.
- SuperSchennBros

Oscar is one guy I would like the Flyers to stick with at least another year, but it may be he is the only forward they are willing to part with that has some value to other teams, in case they need the cap space. I hope he stays here though.