So players getting traded somehow supports your badly misguided opinion that they suck? Only in your world. I'm appreciative of how you reinforce my point about your frequent use of hyperbole. I find it amusing that you place Ristolainen in that group of players. Sanheim has demonstrated that he is every bit as good as Ristolainen is if not better.
- MJL

Demonstrated how exactly?? Again I ask you, what does Sanheim do well that you think puts him in this category. Advanced metrics aside, at least I know Risto uses his size, hits people, blocks shots, wins puck battles, is good in net front coverage, etc. What exactly does Sanheim do well beside skate? Sanheim doesn't hit, doesn't use his size, doesn't win battles, doesn't cover the slot that well, doesn't block shots and though he has offensive ability is inconsistent in using it. I want the Flyers to keep him in case he develops more offensive consistency and maybe gets some toughness in his game, but IMO he has not demonstrated any of this so far.

Nope, it was part of our discussions concerning your wish for the Flyers to acquire Ekholm. You challenged me to give who I would like. That is when I suggested Larsson and you responded that he stinks and he's a 3rd pair defenseman. Over time in another incident of inconsistency, you then switched opinions on Larsson and later hoped the Flyers acquired him. I called you on it previously also.
- MJL

I never posted or thought Larsson was a 3rd pairing defenseman. I just didn't think he was a top pairing defenseman which is what I wanted the Flyers to get, and at that time I did want Ekholm and I still believe Ekholm is better than Larsson. No switching here, I guess sometimes I just talk over your head.

Ivan's been playing a ton of minutes for years now. He's always hovering around 24+ ATOI. This past season was no different.

The stuff that plagued him this year (bone headed turnovers, missed assignments) were the same kind of things that sunk him in 18-19.

It's just ironic that you see Phil Myers make those kinds of mistakes when he doesn't even have 100 NHL games under his belt and say he's sucks with a capital S.... but Provy who's nearing 400 NHL games does the same poop and you try to paint it with an entirely different brush.


- Tomahawk

If you think Myers and Provey belong in the same sentence, there is unfortunately no hope for you ...

These are the kinds of things that happen when defenseman are under the constant siege of a heavy forecheck. The entire team was doing that. You could tell that opposition advanced scouting had teams catering their forecheck to forcing defenseman to rim and sealing off the walls. The Flyers all season refused to use the middle of the ice. The coaching staff never adjusted the teams breakout. The puck was constantly being put into 50/50 battles. The opposition never had to worry about the middle of the ice on the forecheck.
- MJL

The coaching staff??? The Flyers in 2019 used the middle of the ice for break-outs quite effectively, with the SAME coaching staff! Last year was more on the players than anything else, for example a defenseman can't use the middle of the ice if there is no one there to pass to, or your name is Phillippe Myers and you just Suck! :-)

Wonder how Sanheros stats and analytics would look if he was on Buffalo the last 3 seasons.

Myers and Provorov are the same age. The fact that Myers doesn't yet have 100 games of NHL experience while Provorov is nearing 400 games speaks to their comparative statuses.
- bmeltzer

The point of the post Bill was not to compare Myers and Provorov as players.

Demonstrated how exactly?? Again I ask you, what does Sanheim do well that you think puts him in this category. Advanced metrics aside, at least I know Risto uses his size, hits people, blocks shots, wins puck battles, is good in net front coverage, etc. What exactly does Sanheim do well beside skate? Sanheim doesn't hit, doesn't use his size, doesn't win battles, doesn't cover the slot that well, doesn't block shots and though he has offensive ability is inconsistent in using it. I want the Flyers to keep him in case he develops more offensive consistency and maybe gets some toughness in his game, but IMO he has not demonstrated any of this so far.
- jd250

This information has already been given to you. Here you go again, advance metrics aside. You want to dismiss what doesn't fit your premise. In his career as a developing defenseman, Sanheim as shown that he defends well, moves the puck well and puts up solid point totals at ES. It's already been shown to you that Sanheim puts up points at 1st pair levels. Your description of Ristolainen is not accurate. He is known to be poor defensively. You aren't objective and aren't willing to consider the known criticisms of Ristolainen. As if he is a player without flaws. Have you read the comments of the majority of Buffalo's fanbase concerning Ristolainen? After all, your just a fan like we all are but apparently, none of that matters. Again, you show a lack of objectivity and a high level of inconsistency. You seem to think that the two players are a yin-yang sort of thing. That both can
t be good players. All you can offer is a jaded opinion of Ristolainen to this point in his career to try and support your opinion on Sanheim while ignoring the facts.

I never posted or thought Larsson was a 3rd pairing defenseman. I just didn't think he was a top pairing defenseman which is what I wanted the Flyers to get, and at that time I did want Ekholm and I still believe Ekholm is better than Larsson. No switching here, I guess sometimes I just talk over your head.
- jd250

Yes, you absolutely did. It's another example of how you get all fired up and make poor comments just to try and win a debate.

If you think Myers and Provey belong in the same sentence, there is unfortunately no hope for you ...
- jd250

You missed the point.

The coaching staff??? The Flyers in 2019 used the middle of the ice for break-outs quite effectively, with the SAME coaching staff! Last year was more on the players than anything else, for example a defenseman can't use the middle of the ice if there is no one there to pass to, or your name is Phillippe Myers and you just Suck! :-)
- jd250

More hyperbole. You think you're getting at somebody by posting the comment on Myers. it reflects back on you.

More hyperbole. You think you're getting at somebody by posting the comment on Myers. it reflects back on you.
- MJL

Why did nashville trade Ellis?

Why did nashville trade Ellis?
- hello it's me 2050

Hard not to when you get a package of 2 studs like patrick and meyers.

Myers and Provorov are the same age. The fact that Myers doesn't yet have 100 games of NHL experience while Provorov is nearing 400 games speaks to their comparative statuses.
- bmeltzer

This is as unfair as unfair gets. Myers was I drafted, there for lucky to make it to the NHL. Provorov was a high first round drafted who was always viewed as being a number one defenseman on any team.

Demonstrated how exactly?? Again I ask you, what does Sanheim do well that you think puts him in this category. Advanced metrics aside, at least I know Risto uses his size, hits people, blocks shots, wins puck battles, is good in net front coverage, etc. What exactly does Sanheim do well beside skate? Sanheim doesn't hit, doesn't use his size, doesn't win battles, doesn't cover the slot that well, doesn't block shots and though he has offensive ability is inconsistent in using it. I want the Flyers to keep him in case he develops more offensive consistency and maybe gets some toughness in his game, but IMO he has not demonstrated any of this so far.
- jd250

One has 245 career points …..one has 85.
One has 4 40 pt plus seasons…one has none. Just because someone says it doesn’t make it true.
Keeping in mind Risto is 26 and Sanheim is only 25.

This is as unfair as unfair gets. Myers was I drafted, there for lucky to make it to the NHL. Provorov was a high first round drafted who was always viewed as being a number one defenseman on any team.
- SuperSchennBros

Bill’s just pointing out the facts. As far as draft position, Patrick was drafted even higher and how’s he looked?

This information has already been given to you. Here you go again, advance metrics aside. You want to dismiss what doesn't fit your premise. In his career as a developing defenseman, Sanheim as shown that he defends well, moves the puck well and puts up solid point totals at ES. It's already been shown to you that Sanheim puts up points at 1st pair levels. Your description of Ristolainen is not accurate. He is known to be poor defensively. You aren't objective and aren't willing to consider the known criticisms of Ristolainen. As if he is a player without flaws. Have you read the comments of the majority of Buffalo's fanbase concerning Ristolainen? After all, your just a fan like we all are but apparently, none of that matters. Again, you show a lack of objectivity and a high level of inconsistency. You seem to think that the two players are a yin-yang sort of thing. That both can
t be good players. All you can offer is a jaded opinion of Ristolainen to this point in his career to try and support your opinion on Sanheim while ignoring the facts.
- MJL

If Risto is so bad, Fletcher would not have given up a 1st and a 2nd to get him. Fans aside, I have a lot more faith in what I see, and more importantly what the Flyers' scouts see when evaluating a players ability. Its clear, Fletcher and his staff wanted Risto and were willing to pay a high price and take a big risk given his contract to get him. That should mean something. Fletcher and his staff know a hell of lot more about hockey at this level then you, I or anyone on this forum, so yes, I discount fan reactions, especially Buffalo fans! Applying this same mindset consistently, its also clear that Fletcher and his staff do not see the same things you apparently see in Sanheim, otherwise he would have been locked up by, and cap room created as needed via trade. Sanheim is one of only two players in the entire NHL that is still on track to go to arbitration, that should tell you something! And also consider that the sides really can't be that far apart, can they? I mean say the Flyers low ball him at roughly what he making now, like $3.5M and say Sanheim's camp want $5M. In this scenario there should be an easy compromise here that would not require arbitration, but alas no compromise to date. There is something bigger going on here IMO.

One has 245 career points …..one has 85.
One has 4 40 pt plus seasons…one has none. Just because someone says it doesn’t make it true.
Keeping in mind Ristois 26 and Sanheim is only 25.
- landros 2

Oh no ... you can't use those stats because then you are would be picking and choosing stats that make your argument. I mean why does it matter that Risto is only 1 year older than Sanheim, yet has played twice as many full seasons as Sanheim and as you mention had 40+ points in 4 of them. But no, his advanced metrics are poor so that means Sanheim is better.

BTW, which team was worse last year, the Sabres or the Flyers?? I know its close, but Risto was a -18, while Sanheim a -22. Just hand picking more stats.

Oh no ... you can't use those stats because then you are would be picking and choosing stats that make your argument. I mean why does it matter that Risto is only 1 year older than Sanheim, yet has played twice as many full seasons as Sanheim and as you mention had 40+ points in 4 of them. But no, his advanced metrics are poor so that means Sanheim is better.

BTW, which team was worse last year, the Sabres or the Flyers?? I know its close, but Risto was a -18, while Sanheim a -22. Just hand picking more stats.
- jd250

Risto’ s game has some issues….but in the real world he’s a better d man to this point in their respective careers. Honestly it would be nice to see Sanheim play as well as some seem to think he does, because that would be great for the Flyers.

Yes, you absolutely did. It's another example of how you get all fired up and make poor comments just to try and win a debate.
- MJL

You can make false claims all you want, it means nothing. There is no debate here to win. I wanted Ekholm, but also stated Ellis was in play, long before the Flyers obtained him, because I foresaw that Nashville was not going to be able to pay all their D, and I was right. I stated that obtaining 1 top paring D was not enough and that Fletcher would need to get 2 top 4 D, long before Fletcher did exactly what I said he would do. I stated Myers was complete trash, long before Fletcher shipped him out. I stated Patrick was complete trash, long before Fletcher shipped him out. I stated Haag was nothing more than a marginal NHL defenseman, long before Fletcher shipped him out just to make the cap work in a trade. I always like Larsson as that 2nd top 4 D option, and stated he was not going to resign with Edmonton, long before he signed with Seattle. I can keep going, but what's the point, you would rather try to discredit me versus have a conversation, and that reflects 100% on you!

Risto’ s game has some issues….but in the real world he’s a better d man to this point in their respective careers. Honestly it would be nice to see Sanheim play as well as some seem to think he does, because that would be great for the Flyers.
- landros 2

Like I asked earlier how would Sanhero look if he was on buffalo the last 3 seasons?

Risto’ s game has some issues….but in the real world he’s a better d man to this point in their respective careers. Honestly it would be nice to see Sanheim play as well as some seem to think he does, because that would be great for the Flyers.
- landros 2

It absolutely would and I think that is Fletcher's plan, but I think until Sanheim actually plays this way, he has little leverage IMO. Again, I want Sanheim on this team, I do not want to trade him or give up on him, but it has to be at a reasonable price.

If Risto is so bad, Fletcher would not have given up a 1st and a 2nd to get him. Fans aside, I have a lot more faith in what I see, and more importantly what the Flyers' scouts see when evaluating a players ability. Its clear, Fletcher and his staff wanted Risto and were willing to pay a high price and take a big risk given his contract to get him. That should mean something. Fletcher and his staff know a hell of lot more about hockey at this level then you, I or anyone on this forum, so yes, I discount fan reactions, especially Buffalo fans! Applying this same mindset consistently, its also clear that Fletcher and his staff do not see the same things you apparently see in Sanheim, otherwise he would have been locked up by, and cap room created as needed via trade. Sanheim is one of only two players in the entire NHL that is still on track to go to arbitration, that should tell you something! And also consider that the sides really can't be that far apart, can they? I mean say the Flyers low ball him at roughly what he making now, like $3.5M and say Sanheim's camp want $5M. In this scenario there should be an easy compromise here that would not require arbitration, but alas no compromise to date. There is something bigger going on here IMO.
- jd250

Nobody stated that Ristolainen is so bad. What has been stated is that Ristolainen has flaws in his game and is not the perfect player that you frequently make him out to be. Your perceived faith is irrelevant and it's highly unlikely that you've seen Ristolainen play as much as you've seen Sanheim. GM's make bad trades all the time so the fact that they traded for him and paid the price that they did, really doesn't matter at this point. All that really matters is how he plays moving forward. If you discount other fans opinions, do you also discount your own in favor of the GM? Does that count for this situation or all situations moving forward? If it does, this means you cannot be critical of the GM for any move made in the future because he knows more than you do as a fan. Here we see more poorly thought out comments. You keep making this false equivalent of Sanheim not being signed to mean that they don't think he is a good player or that they don't think what I think about the player. It does not say that about the player. All it says is that they haven't been able to come to an agreement yet.

Here is the list of RFA players that have yet to be re-signed

https://www.capfriendly.com/rfas

Oh no ... you can't use those stats because then you are would be picking and choosing stats that make your argument. I mean why does it matter that Risto is only 1 year older than Sanheim, yet has played twice as many full seasons as Sanheim and as you mention had 40+ points in 4 of them. But no, his advanced metrics are poor so that means Sanheim is better.

BTW, which team was worse last year, the Sabres or the Flyers?? I know its close, but Risto was a -18, while Sanheim a -22. Just hand picking more stats.
- jd250

Nobody has argued that Ristolainen is not a better offensive player overall than Sanheim. Again, you and others want to make a comparison. As if Sanheim can't be a good player because Ristolainen is better. Sanheim does not play on the PP. Yet he has strong ES point production. That is just a simple fact that supports Sanheim as a good player. There is no hand picking of stats going on. You however ignore the poor analytics of Ristolainen because it does not support your premise.

It absolutely would and I think that is Fletcher's plan, but I think until Sanheim actually plays this way, he has little leverage IMO. Again, I want Sanheim on this team, I do not want to trade him or give up on him, but it has to be at a reasonable price.
- jd250

It’s a tough contract….at 25 some contracts don’t take “potential” into account as much as one when a guy is 22-23….a lot of guys at 25 are what you see. D man can be different, and hopefully Sanheim takes some steps forward this year….this contract is about what Sanheim has done more then what the Flyers hope, I’m sure, he can be. Although if he has reached his ceiling he’s not worth any kind of increase. I’m sure Sanheims camp will point out there’s a lot more room for growth…..thus the impasse. At least that’s how I see it.

It absolutely would and I think that is Fletcher's plan, but I think until Sanheim actually plays this way, he has little leverage IMO. Again, I want Sanheim on this team, I do not want to trade him or give up on him, but it has to be at a reasonable price.
- jd250

Another point…if you discount the offensive production that lacks in Sanheims game. What exactly is he ? He sure as hell is not a defensive d man. He’s not physical at all. He Skates like the wind and uses that to move the puck. He uses his reach more then he takes the body…I thought that was Myers biggest fall off last year….he started to use his reach and stick more then taking body.
Sanheim hasn’t played on the PP because offensively he’s not good enough to be productive. It’s just not his game. It’s not like the Flyers had a fantastic PP and Sanheim was only the 3rd or 4th best option….that’s not his game. So what’s he worth as the Flyers 4th best d man ?