Thanks Theo.

While I'm sure they will be better, I'm still not sure that this offseason was just about winning more, and still about a youth movement/development, just approaching it in a different/better way.

I'm not sure they didn't look at last year and maybe the Bovquist and Joker situations from the last few years, and determine they were doing the rebuild the wrong way. Did they decide that a youth movement where guys get more time in the "A", and when they came up to the Hawks had more experience and didn't have to carry the entire load was a better approach? Surround the young guys by a few all stars, (who still play like all stars) who set a great example and allow them to learn. Is this actually the new better approach?

Was the plan of play all the young guys from the last couple years a marketing McD thing, and are they now going in the direction they would have preferred from the beginning

One may never know for sure. I've been on record as I don't mind this new approach, I think when you look at professional sports you'll see very few instances of a team developing everyone all at once.

I get the argument that this was too soon for a Seth Jones trade, and maybe that's true, but they don't also become available very often. I'm not going to get into the debate about if he's good or worth his contract, I've always liked him when I've seen him play, and i get why others would have a different POV. Me, I'll save that debate for when he actually has played at least a half of season, not two shifts.
- vabeachbear

Totally agree with all your points, yikes! I think it was obvious players were being brought up too quickly to their detriment. I also agree Jones type players don't come along often, we do not have any in the system and you take your shots when you can. To further expound on the point of so many young guys playing last year and now the switch; I don't think you can overestimate Rocky looking at $0 Revenue last year, not knowing where covid was going and making the decision to lower expenses on the ice. I also don't think it's being taken into account enough that when the decision was made to "go young," Seabrook and Shaw were still part of the salary cap equation as well as Duncan Keith. That situation changed completely and opened up a new spending door.

Thanks, Breadman.

I'm the same way, i.e. while I have criticisms of some of the transactions this offseason, I'm quite excited for 2021-22.

The season could still flop but at least the youth get to develop where it is more appropriate and at a pace that optimizes their growth for the long run.
- Theo Fox

I'm fine giving the young players another season in Rockford, but a few have earned a spot from last season & I hope they keep a place on the Hawks' roster. If for cap reasons, I understand. Then a recall will follow. I'm more impressed with rookies then a lot of other players.

I think everyone who doesn’t own the Hawks is on the hot seat for one reason or another this season.

This is the most talent JC has had to work with in Chicago, if they’re not in contention for a playoff spot he’ll be gone at the end of the season.
- DarthKane

As a JC defender the last few years, I'm thinking he has 1/3rd of a season to show something Stan will be more aggressive with changes this year. All the different players need to be sorted out but it won't be for long. It won't be Marc Crawford coming in for JC either it will be somebody far more accomplished as a HC.

I think everyone who doesn’t own the Hawks is on the hot seat for one reason or another this season.

This is the most talent JC has had to work with in Chicago, if they’re not in contention for a playoff spot he’ll be gone at the end of the season.
- DarthKane

Darth....responded to late last night after that field of dreams game......



I just briefly went through 2007-2021 1st round picks and there are as many names I’ve never heard of as there are guys I immediately recognize. There a crap ton of bad misses. BY a wide range of teams. I think at best it’s a little better than 60% a 18 yr old hits the lofty goal of ever reaching his level.

I also noticed a ton of 1st round picks bowman took fliers on via trades….quenneville, koekkoek, dehaan, leddy, Connolly, Murphy, maata, subban, zadorov, Dano, Perlini, strome, nylander, and borgstrom….how many of those guys have actually panned out for the hawks? Murphy and leddy….and the rest? No gm would trade 2 of those guys presently and a random 2nd for Seth Jones and another fringe nhl player.

Those guys range all over the board. Koekkoek was drafted 10th!!!!

I get the price was steep but let’s look at this way….do we trust Stan and their staff to draft people because lately they aren’t lighting it up with their own picks and all these guys I am assuming his scouts and analytical guys loved.

As far as the money argument…..toews isn’t resigning for 10.5 Aav when his deal is up. If they do that, bowman should be fired on the spot. I love toews but he’s no where near that money now. You also freed up Keith’s, and seabrooks long term hits as well. So Jones slides in as a new core piece, likely debrincat, and Kane again. Leaves room for him to find other pieces.

I get it but the draft pick argument holds little water for me. The money is valid but out of the 8 years I am hopeful 5 or 6 are wins for the hawks.

IMO hawks are in far better shape than Toronto or Edmonton who have young stars but have multiple 10+ aav deals.

I see the Avalanche, then I see up for grabs….

Angotti

The up for grabs is still a tier up from the Hawks IMO.
- LAHawk

Is it though? I think the Avalanche will likely run away and hide. 2-4.....not so much.

Nashville got weaker
Arizona is a disaster
STL...Binnington turned back into a pumpkin last year and regular season Brandon Saad doesn't move the needle enough. See what they get back if/when they trade Taresenko
WPG....I put them in the same class as STL
DAL....I would put them a distant 2nd behind Colorado but ahead of the rest
MIN....hard fall coming here

So I would go

1. Colorado
2. Dallas
3/4...battle between STL, WPG, and the Hawks

Hawks need Toews back, Dehaan to stay healthy, and some secondary scoring support. They get those 3 and they will make the playoffs. 1 out of 2 between Dehaan and secondary scoring....they will be knocking on the door.

To Darth's point, I think the HEAT IS ON (cue Glen frye) on JC and possibly Bowman if this doesn't pan out. I wouldn't be shocked to JC get launched into the sun by Thanksgiving and Crawford take over like in November of 2008 when they booted Savard and gave the reigns to Q.

I am not saying the Hawks are a lock....but I think they are in the conversation for a playoff spot.

Arizona Coyotes
Chicago Blackhawks
Colorado Avalanche
Dallas Stars
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
St. Louis Blues
Winnipeg Jets

I think the Coyotes are the worst of the bunch but that the Hawks, Stars, Wild and Preds are all equally bad and its anyone's game to see who sucks the most - probably depends on who gets crazy good goaltending tbh.
- fattybeef

This, but the Stars, Wild, and Preds have a much better defense, thus I think they end up with more points than the Hawks.

Hi Theo - Thanks for the info. I would like to be able to watch more of the Rockford games, I wish the Organization would do something so they could get a more coverage in the Chicago market. I am not sure if there is some agreement with the Wolves, but I really am not interested in them since they are not an independent team anymore. I can't get behind players who eventually will be playing against the team I cheer for.
- powerenforcer

You and me both on the Hogs getting more TV and media coverage in Chicago. With the huge investment that the Hawks are pouring into the Hogs now, I could see a TV deal at least being talked about even if on WCIU or whatever the fuzzy channel is called now.

Theo - to your point about taking in outside recommendations/criticism about the system, it will be interesting who speaks up here. I would think Johnson (considering he was part of a strong overall defensive team that was also able to put up points), and Jones (who was part of a team whose fortunes had recently flipped) would likely be leaned on the most as far as the new guys brought in.

They both have outside perspective as well as a viewpoint of what does and does not work in their situations. We know Kane and Toews (when healthy and participating) both bring a ton of work ethic and leadership, but I think this level of perspective coming from guys that are going to be counted on (not just lower line fill ins) may help them be much better this year.

To your point about JC's job security. I would say he's not on the hot seat, but he's not totally immune either. If there is clearly no direction, then I think the team highly considers moving him.
- Chunk

Good thoughts on voices in the room to challenge decision making for the greater good of the team.

I do recall two seasons ago Colliton allowed players like Kane to help redraw PP strategies and it seemed to have work for a bit. So to his credit, Colliton does listen to others.

But it may come down to whether he can continue to adapt in the right ways and at the right pace to outpace the ticking clock on showing results that matter.

LA, although my glass is always half full, I do understand that today we are not a cup contender. However I do believe that the Hawks have a legitimate shot at making the playoffs. Last year with TB, Carolina, and Florida in their division, they were in the hunt almost ‘til the end. Only Colorado is as strong this year in the Central as those three teams were last year, and the Hawks have basically added Toews, Dach, Jones, MAF, and McCabe, plus one more year of experience for guys like Kurashev and Kalynuk. So bottom line is that I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the Central.
Edit- +Johnson

Angotti

Angotti, I don't disagree with your points. I guess I am more pushing back on the if the Hawks don't make the playoffs, JC is a goner. Here are my questions that won't be answered until the Hawks start playing:

Is McCabe ready to come back from his injury?
Can Da Haan stay healthy?
Is Kalnyuk the defenseman we saw for most of the time he was up, or the trainwreck he was the last few games of the season?
Can Stillman reign in his mistakes with more experience/reps.

Can Toews come back? If he does is he a shadow of himself?
Is Dach a #1 center as of now (I say no)
Is Strome/Carpenter/Connolly still on the team?, where does Borgstrom play?
Who steps up to be another top 6 forward (if you have Toews/Dach/Kubalik/ADB/Kane slotted as 5 of your six, irregardless of my questions above.

That being said I definitely look at MAF, Johnson, and Jones as positive acquisitions.

I hope things break the Hawks way. I guess I have been watching too much of the Kings/ducks rebuilds to know that things rarely go according to plan.

Is it though? I think the Avalanche will likely run away and hide. 2-4.....not so much.

Nashville got weaker
Arizona is a disaster
STL...Binnington turned back into a pumpkin last year and regular season Brandon Saad doesn't move the needle enough. See what they get back if/when they trade Taresenko
WPG....I put them in the same class as STL
DAL....I would put them a distant 2nd behind Colorado but ahead of the rest
MIN....hard fall coming here

So I would go

1. Colorado
2. Dallas
3/4...battle between STL, WPG, and the Hawks

Hawks need Toews back, Dehaan to stay healthy, and some secondary scoring support. They get those 3 and they will make the playoffs. 1 out of 2 between Dehaan and secondary scoring....they will be knocking on the door.

To Darth's point, I think the HEAT IS ON (cue Glen frye) on JC and possibly Bowman if this doesn't pan out. I wouldn't be shocked to JC get launched into the sun by Thanksgiving and Crawford take over like in November of 2008 when they booted Savard and gave the reigns to Q.

I am not saying the Hawks are a lock....but I think they are in the conversation for a playoff spot.
- SteveRain

They booted Savard after 3 games I think JC gets about 25 and I doubt it will be Crawford.

They booted Savard after 3 games I think JC gets about 25 and I doubt it will be Crawford.
- rpeters01

i don't think Stan's dad is making decisions on the team that much anymore.

i don't think Stan's dad is making decisions on the team that much anymore.
- powerenforcer

This is true and he was the guy who brought Q into the organization as a special assistant along with Mark Bergevin.

Agree with both posts.

I think over the next few years if Mitchell's and Beaudin's development continues to the point they are good NHL defenseman, that would be great.

I also think giving them a taste of the NHL and sending them back to the A to play big minutes is a better plan than having them, Kalynuk and possibly Boqvist (if not for the Jones trade) all playing in the NHL and trying to learn on the job.

Maybe Boqvist develops into a very good dman but potentially having 4 smallish guys as your top two pairs didn't really have me feeling confident that the Hawks were on the right path to contending again. I don't know that this one is either but that's why they play.
- HawkintheD

I agree with you and va, i also would like to add, when they kind of changed the interference rule or more like enforced it for a while, i believe Bowman might have believed the league was going to benefit smaller skilled dmen and its like he got fed up with what the league was telling him and in the actual way they were officiating the games and said (frank) it, time to switch gears

They booted Savard after 3 games I think JC gets about 25 and I doubt it will be Crawford.
- rpeters01

I have to agree here. I can't see him being anything more than an interim, unless he absolutely went gangbusters with the team.

In alphabetical order:

Arizona Coyotes
Chicago Blackhawks
Colorado Avalanche
Dallas Stars
Minnesota Wild
Nashville Predators
St. Louis Blues
Winnipeg Jets

I still see them as bottom dwellers.
- LAHawk

I think when a team has no depth the season becomes a grind and before you know it losing streaks occur. It will be interesting this year, with all these additions and if this team stays relatively healthy i can see them not stacking losses one after another. I can actually see them doing the opposite.

So Werenski isn’t a good partner or supporting cast member? In fact Werenski was better than Jones and probably the #1 over Jones. I will err on the side of LBR’s statistical analysis (i.e. Science) and see Jones as a mistake. A big expensive mistake.

From Diamondhands

I like Werenski a lot, and i don't watch much CBJ games but the one thing i noticed when we played them, Werenski was the rover in the offensive zone almost always when the 2 of them were on the ice.

I have to agree here. I can't see him being anything more than an interim, unless he absolutely went gangbusters with the team.
- Chunk

Oh I agree I am not saying Crawford is the long term answer.....IF and that's still a relatively HUGE IF, the internal expectations are NOT met and they decide to fire JC....I just feel Crawford is that band aid. Veteran guy...been around a long time....guys on the team know him, etc, etc

Oh I agree I am not saying Crawford is the long term answer.....IF and that's still a relatively HUGE IF, the internal expectations are NOT met and they decide to fire JC....I just feel Crawford is that band aid. Veteran guy...been around a long time....guys on the team know him, etc, etc
- SteveRain

Oh I'm sure they know exactly who they will hire.

So Werenski isn’t a good partner or supporting cast member? In fact Werenski was better than Jones and probably the #1 over Jones. I will err on the side of LBR’s statistical analysis (i.e. Science) and see Jones as a mistake. A big expensive mistake.

From Diamondhands

I like Werenski a lot, and i don't watch much CBJ games but the one thing i noticed when we played them, Werenski was the rover in the offensive zone almost always when the 2 of them were on the ice.
- BetweenTheDots

Did Keith make Seabrook elite? Or did Seabrook make Keith elite? Drew Doughty advanced stats when he signed an 8 year $11 mil. contract at 28 were declining, yet he was signed to that contract by his GM, who BTW is a Hall of Fame defenseman/

LA, although my glass is always half full, I do understand that today we are not a cup contender. However I do believe that the Hawks have a legitimate shot at making the playoffs. Last year with TB, Carolina, and Florida in their division, they were in the hunt almost ‘til the end. Only Colorado is as strong this year in the Central as those three teams were last year, and the Hawks have basically added Toews, Dach, Jones, MAF, and McCabe, plus one more year of experience for guys like Kurashev and Kalynuk. So bottom line is that I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the Central.
Edit- +Johnson
- Angotti

If Toews plays and plays close to how he played in 2019-20 I think the hawks are in the playoffs. If he doesn’t play or if he can’t find his game I think they go either way.

LA, although my glass is always half full, I do understand that today we are not a cup contender. However I do believe that the Hawks have a legitimate shot at making the playoffs. Last year with TB, Carolina, and Florida in their division, they were in the hunt almost ‘til the end. Only Colorado is as strong this year in the Central as those three teams were last year, and the Hawks have basically added Toews, Dach, Jones, MAF, and McCabe, plus one more year of experience for guys like Kurashev and Kalynuk. So bottom line is that I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the Central.
Edit- +Johnson

Angotti

Angotti, I don't disagree with your points. I guess I am more pushing back on the if the Hawks don't make the playoffs, JC is a goner. Here are my questions that won't be answered until the Hawks start playing:

Is McCabe ready to come back from his injury?
Can Da Haan stay healthy?
Is Kalnyuk the defenseman we saw for most of the time he was up, or the trainwreck he was the last few games of the season?
Can Stillman reign in his mistakes with more experience/reps.

Can Toews come back? If he does is he a shadow of himself?
Is Dach a #1 center as of now (I say no)
Is Strome/Carpenter/Connolly still on the team?, where does Borgstrom play?
Who steps up to be another top 6 forward (if you have Toews/Dach/Kubalik/ADB/Kane slotted as 5 of your six, irregardless of my questions above.

That being said I definitely look at MAF, Johnson, and Jones as positive acquisitions.

I hope things break the Hawks way. I guess I have been watching too much of the Kings/ducks rebuilds to know that things rarely go according to plan.
- LAHawk

All those questions you have listed I 100% agree on. I think it's fair to say NOT all will be answered YES or in the hawks favor and not ALL will be answered NO or against the Hawks.

IMO....
--Hawks got a LOT better in net for THIS year. If the NHLPA and NHL work out agreement to go to Olympics, Fleury has to be in the convo to be Canada's starter.

--Hawks added some forward depth...Johnson is a guy who was a top 6 player and then slid down to bottom 6 to help Tampa win a cup. No matter where he slots, hawks depth gets better...As Elbows says, if he plays bottom 6...you get a veteran guy there who is proven. that will help stabilize some things then rely on kids trying to find their way.

--Toews to me IS the X factor to this entire thing.....He plays 60+ games and everyone slots correctly down the middle. I still start Kane/DeBrincat with Dach as I think/feel they can be a solid line and dach can use his size to free up room for Kane and DeBrincat. Toews with Kubalik and Johnson/Hagel....can work.

--i would pair Jones with McCabe, and Murphy with Kalynuk and have DeHaan play lower minutes to avoid injury and help him stabilize a guy like C jones or Stillman. Play Mitchell/Beaudin top minutes in the A have them ready to spell any holes internally.

I just see a lot more positives then we have in years past. Again, nobody here will never know WHY exactly hawks went from a complete tear down to a quick repatch but here we are....long term, lets hope Lankinen learns from one of the best in the last 20 years and grows...and the young Fs who thought they were top 6 material learn from guys like Johnson or Connolly or whoever on how they can have a productive career being a complimentary depth scorer.

I think this team is going to surprise a LOT of people which means they likely will suck......

Did Keith make Seabrook elite? Or did Seabrook make Keith elite? Drew Doughty advanced stats when he signed an 8 year $11 mil. contract at 28 were declining, yet he was signed to that contract by his GM, who BTW is a Hall of Fame defenseman/
- LAHawk

i think they were the PERFECT match for each other's game.....Their weakness was covered by the other's strengths. I think if Keith/Seabrook were separated each would have been good....but no where near the levels they hit.

I sat there for over a decade+ watching many a nights and many a shifts where Keith rushed a pass/bomb into Seabrook's feet to avoid pressure and Seabrook transitioned it out....quickly and it became the norm. I saw Keith race back and cover a lot of ground Seabrook couldn't. Perfect balance, IMO

Did Keith make Seabrook elite? Or did Seabrook make Keith elite? Drew Doughty advanced stats when he signed an 8 year $11 mil. contract at 28 were declining, yet he was signed to that contract by his GM, who BTW is a Hall of Fame defenseman/
- LAHawk

Doughty is so good.

Did Keith make Seabrook elite? Or did Seabrook make Keith elite? Drew Doughty advanced stats when he signed an 8 year $11 mil. contract at 28 were declining, yet he was signed to that contract by his GM, who BTW is a Hall of Fame defenseman/
- LAHawk

While everyone uses superlatives differently I personally don’t think Seabrook was elite. He was extremely good but elite, aka one of the league’s best defensemen, no. Keith definitely helped Seabrook’s game as Seabrook helped Keith’s. If the hawks didn’t have Seabrook was Keith an elite defenseman? I think so. There were plenty of times Keith was on the ice without Seabrook and played extraordinarily well. Plus in the Olympics against stronger teams he wasn’t paired with Seabrook and was arguably the best defenseman in the world.

If Toews plays and plays close to how he played in 2019-20 I think the hawks are in the playoffs. If he doesn’t play or if he can’t find his game I think they go either way.
- paulr

100% agreed. Toews plays and plays close to his "norm" this team is in the playoffs baring a major injury.