I can see and agree with all of this, I can also see other teams were in the mix and I can see the risk in making it public that CF coveted Risto. I can also see if Risto has a good season him wanting to stay, knowing he is wanted and he fits. I could see the Flyers and Risto coming to a reasonable deal/slight overpay. If that happens, I think the risk will be in the term. I think he will be and Flyers will want to offer term to keep the cap hit down. So even in the best case scenario there will be risk at the end of Risto's next contract.

It is just the NHL, there is risk no matter what, you hope your upside hits and the consequences are minimal. Look at Tampa, they gave up a 1st and 3rd for Savard rental. During the season Savard's metric were not good, the Athletic actually predicted his next contract would be 1 year at 1.3. Savard had a great playoffs and now got his 4 year deal from the Habs. Risk for Tampa when they traded (yes legit cup contender) and risk for the HAbs, that Savard is the player from the cup run and not from debacle Blue Jacket season
- wcorvette

Savard only ended up playing average 14mins per in the POs. There were games where he was lucky to get 10-11 minutes. It became pretty obvious post-trade that they weren't getting the top-4 D they thought they were getting.

Ignore the underlying numbers at your own peril.

Sanheim can walk for all I care. He's worth $2/$2+ some change at best.

Any more than that, and we can find someone else....

San Morin is a veteran role player? Huh?

Chucky gonna Chucky. I really thought he had a good start to the off season although he probably paid an extra draft pick for Risto. Should have been either just the 1st or just the second, but not both. Really like the guys that he brought in and shipped out, but then he petered out. Jones may be a downgrade over Elliot and bringing Thompson back really makes no sense. This forward group as a whole still isn't fast or physical enough. Help!!
- Phillywhiteout

He didn’t petered out. He ran out of Cap space and the market got saturated. He said what ever was going to happened had to happen quickly. He made some great moves. He really revamped the defense and add a couple forwards that make it harder to play against.

I’m sure he wishes he could make more changes but it would take a trade to make that happen. Think he is focused on getting Hart and Sanheim taken care of.

Sanheim can walk for all I care. He's worth $2/$2+ some change at best.

Any more than that, and we can find someone else....

San Morin is a veteran role player? Huh?
- Nh_kong

Find somebody else where? UFA is done. Most teams have made their moves for top-4 D. Only guys left on the open market are Gus, Sbisa, Jack Johnson... you want one of them? Wanna trade for somebody worse than Sanheim on a more expensive contract?

The next Matt Murray? Two Cups, 177-66, .912 career save %. Wake me up when Hart has this on his resume.
- PLindbergh31

Is Matt Murray still in the league? What does it say about a goalie when the team he won the cups w quickly jettisoned him for nothing?

Find somebody else where? UFA is done. Most teams have made their moves for top-4 D. Only guys left on the open market are Gus, Sbisa, Jack Johnson... you want one of them?
- Tomahawk

How is UFA done? Sanheim is "serviceable" at best and a liability at worst. Strictly mediocre. The point is, at $4m a year, that's too much. WAY too much.

Chuck can find someone else, or play some of our prospects (remember them?). Rotate them in and out and see who fits. It certainly can be done....Sanheim is not a legitimate top 4 defenseman. He's a 3rd pairing guy.

Rookie D-men make mistakes, but that's how they get better.

Sanheim is what he is at this point.
JM2CW

Savard only ended up playing average 14mins per in the POs. There were games where he was lucky to get 10-11 minutes. It became pretty obvious post-trade that they weren't getting the top-4 D they thought they were getting.

Ignore the underlying numbers at your own peril.
- Tomahawk

yeah he is a 3rd pair D and did well on the best team in the league. With Weber out I am not sure what role the Habs have in mind. I think he can ride the feeling of the cup win to begin the season, I think he can spot in the top 4 but I think he is a 3rd pair D. Four years at 3.5, being 30 is pretty decent.

To your point, he did paint himself into a corner. He had no leverage to get them to retain salary. It's clear he targeted Ristolainen and has been targeting him for a while. He was going to make a deal for the player and negotiated the best deal he could that he could live with. The most under discussed aspect of the trade is the contract situation. You traded for a player that has question marks, overpaid and have no leverage in a future contract. As Flyers fans, we need to keep and open mind and hope that he improves playing on a better team and not having as heavy of a load on his shoulders in playing 2nd pair rather than first pair.
- MJL

According to people that report on this league there were 7 teams bidding for Risto and all were willing to anti up more than a 1st rd pick. I agree. It would have been nice to get a mill or two in relief, but there was another team that did not ask for that and would have won the deal. Otherwise we would have.

Still nothing wrong with criticizing how much we gave up, but top 4 d guys are incredibly valuable and ones that actually hit people and do so effectively while playing 22 plus mins a night are incredibly valuable. We were so soft on d last year it was a disgrace.

Hopefully getting him out of Buff will get his career back on track to where he was 4 years ago.

We spent 5 years w a GM that had 0 interest in winning. Just building and leaving spots open for young guys which never ever works.

Young players need to take spots not inherit them.

How is UFA done? Sanheim is "serviceable" at best and a liability at worst. Strictly mediocre. The point is, at $4m a year, that's too much. WAY too much.

Chuck can find someone else, or play some of our prospects (remember them?). Rotate them in and out and see who fits. It certainly can be done....Sanheim is not a legitimate top 4 defenseman. He's a 3rd pairing guy.

Rookie D-men make mistakes, but that's how they get better.

Sanheim is what he is at this point.
JM2CW
- Nh_kong

Lol, so Sanheim isn't a legit top 4 d, but you wanna push Yandle, York or Zamula into that spot? Jeez.

Is Matt Murray still in the league? What does it say about a goalie when the team he won the cups w quickly jettisoned him for nothing?
- Joe Nardone

It is pretty damning. Two time Stanley Cup winner given away for nothing. Meanwhile MAF has won a Vezina and gone to the finals in separate seasons.

Is Matt Murray still in the league? What does it say about a goalie when the team he won the cups w quickly jettisoned him for nothing?
- Joe Nardone

FWIW Matt Murray is still in the NHL with Ottawa... with three Seasons left at over $6M AAV.

Lol, so Sanheim isn't a legit top 4 d, but you wanna push Yandle, York or Zamula into that spot? Jeez.
- Tomahawk

Could York be worse than Sanheim was last year? I personally don’t think so & think Sanheim at best is a 4. So I’d rather roll with York as a 4 & save 3+ million. At worst York plays as poorly as Sanheim but Flyers save on cap space.

However, you can’t loose Sanheim for nothing. Sign & trade at least.

I'm hoping for $2.5M-$3.0M for Hart and $3.5M-$4.0M for Sanheim. 2-3 years on each. Longer term would be ideal.

That still leaves very little cushion in cap to start year. As long as everyone has their "bounce back" year, we should have no reason to add pieces. Of course, we've been hoping for this several seasons now.

We do we think gets the A's? G is still Captain. Hayes, Coots, Provy return. Yandle and Ellis added. Risto and Atkinson also spent time as Alternate Captains.
- cdearth23

It is my belief they should strip Hayes with Jake gone and just keep the letters between G, Coots and Provorov.

Could York be worse than Sanheim was last year?
- Fopa21

Yes, he could be a lot worse.

For all the crap that pena fans have talked about our Franchise not winning anything they just hired a lot of the guys responsible for not getting us over the hurdle
The hockey gods have for jokes
Personally, I thought Pryor made some good choices with draft picks. I didn't like to see him go

Lol, so Sanheim isn't a legit top 4 d, but you wanna push Yandle, York or Zamula into that spot? Jeez.
- Tomahawk

Is that you, Mrs Sanheim?

I'd love to see Morin stick this year on the 3rd pair (and I expect he will). I'd love to see York, Hogburg and Zamula get some NHL experience and rotate into the 3rd pairing as the season goes by, or injuries mount up.

Sanheim is expendable. He was -22 last year. MINUS TWENTY TWO....and is -28 for his career so far. Not exactly stellar numbers....

$4m per year? I don't think so. Apparently the Flyers don't think so, either.

You must own his jersey or something, lol.

I assumed you read the whole article before talking out your ass.
- MBFlyerfan

Over the years, I've come to believe that the only orifice that Pavel speaks from is his ass. Just sayin.......

Could York be worse than Sanheim was last year? I personally don’t think so & think Sanheim at best is a 4. So I’d rather roll with York as a 4 & save 3+ million. At worst York plays as poorly as Sanheim but Flyers save on cap space.

However, you can’t loose Sanheim for nothing. Sign & trade at least.
- Fopa21

Travis Sanheim (C)

And now we come to one of the more controversial grades.

Sanheim was the Flyers’ best defenseman by a significant margin by even-strength advanced metrics. His closest comparable in terms of impact on xG differential in 2020-21 was Jared Spurgeon, and his closest comp by impact on shot attempt differential was Mattias Ekholm. Those are pretty good defensemen! Plus he was a staple in the Flyers’ top four all season; at one point, Vigneault referred to him as one of the team’s three rocks on defense (with Provorov and Braun) who were essentially immune from the possibility of a scratch. Sanheim did earn the trust of his coaches and ended up averaging a career-high 21:53 minutes per game.

But then there were the breakdowns. And hoo boy, a lot of them ended up in the back of the net.

Sanheim’s on-ice save percentage at five-on-five was .8856 — seventh-worst among full-time NHL blueliners. And considering the gigantic discrepancy between his expected goals per 60 minutes rate (2.07) and his actual goals against per 60 (3.22), there are really only two possible explanations. Either Sanheim had himself one of the unluckiest years a defenseman could possibly have, with almost every mistake of his being punished, or public xG models don’t quite grasp just how weak Sanheim was defensively. Let’s split the difference between the two possibilities and give him a C.

https://theathletic.com/2...ing-staff-to-carter-hart/

Is that you, Mrs Sanheim?

I'd love to see Morin stick this year on the 3rd pair (and I expect he will). I'd love to see York, Hogburg and Zamula get some NHL experience and rotate into the 3rd pairing as the season goes by, or injuries mount up.

Sanheim is expendable. He was -22 last year. MINUS TWENTY TWO....and is -28 for his career so far. Not exactly stellar numbers....

You must own his jersey or something, lol.
- Nh_kong

Sorry if pointing out the very obvious problems w/ your "Sanheim is expendable" plan causes you discomfort.

And Doughty's been -64 over the past 3-seasons. MINUS SIXTY FOUR. They should just retroactively strip him of his Norris Trophy. Or could it be that minuses can't be strictly pinned on a single player?

Is Matt Murray still in the league? What does it say about a goalie when the team he won the cups w quickly jettisoned him for nothing?
- Joe Nardone

I don't know. What does it say? Did they win two cups in spite of Murray?

Yes, he could be a lot worse.
- Tomahawk

Not possible. You couldn’t find one person to put money on York being worse than a minus 22

Not possible. You couldn’t find one person to put money on York being worse than a minus 22
- Fopa21

It's possible. Especially if the goaltending is still crap. See Nolan Patrick's -30.

Not possible. You couldn’t find one person to put money on York being worse than a minus 22
- Fopa21

So that is how you build/coach a NHL team?

I don't know. What does it say? Did they win two cups in spite of Murray?
- PLindbergh31

Not in spite of but pretty close to it.

It's possible. Especially if the goaltending is still crap. See Nolan Patrick's -30.
- Tomahawk

The insane thing about Patrick being a -30 is he was generally last among forwards in ice time, and was usually skating against other teams 3rd and 4th lines. Not sure how you could quantify this, but he was about the worst player in the NHL. That is what the second pick in the draft gets you. Absurd.