I can argue he wasn't that great for the Cubs. Boston I don't know enough about.
- rpeters01

My Brother lives in Boston, while they love the 2 championships, they female dog just as much about some of the moves and deals Theo made while there.

Yes but that no longer worked when top pitchers went from $25 to over $40 million a year and junk pitchers $15-20.
- rpeters01

He didn't draft enough impact non-pitchers to trade for pitching. Bryant was an impact hitter. Schwarbs was at times. Other than that? Tough to trade for pitching when the farm is barren.

He didn't draft enough impact non-pitchers to trade for pitching. Bryant was an impact hitter. Schwarbs was at times. Other than that? Tough to trade for pitching when the farm is barren.
- mohel

Gleybar Torres, Eloy Jimenez, Jorge Soler all traded for pitching and all impact hitters in the majors now. Lets not forget he also traded away DJ LeMahieu.....and wasted tons of money for how many appearances of Brandan Morrow?

#cubsbuzz

Give the old greats the same training support during their development that today’s greats have gotten and these comparisons are totally different.
- TheDrumonMadison

You mean a pack of cigarettes and a fifth of brown liquor doesn't cut it anymore?

Let’s go the other way. Let’s take a player today and take him back to 1975. Do you think McDavid would last a season? Ovie might be OK but being Russian he’d be a prime target too. Most current NHL players would have no clue how to cope the physicality and stupidity of 70s hockey. And yes most goals were scored along the ice until analytics showed goalies how to play their position better. And analytics showed coaches players tendencies to better stop them, except of course the players who could think and process the game more quickly.
- paulr

I think Ovechkin could.....he always seemed to be a guy who could play in any era. Agreed and even the early 80s when each game was filled with fights and line brawls lots of guys would get man handled. I think Kane could have played in the 80s and been a Savard type player.....

I was bored on a teams call and was looking at early-late 70s scoring....lots of guys putting up a sizeable numbers. boston looked to be loaded offensively.

Somebody said it earlier but I think the great players in each generation could have played in each generation before or after....how good they would have been is debatable depending upon their size, etc......so many factors now a days that weren't around even in the mid 90s when you were "dinged" and still sacked up....now you get pulled at the highschool level for months on end. I get it but it's 100% different.

I know people aren't fans of the "goons" but they were there to police the BS hacking, spearing, running at the skilled guys until the skill guys started pushing back.

Goalie equipment is way bigger and lighter too. Compare a pic of a current tenders equipment to Dryden, Esposito, Belfour, Bannerman, or any goalie of gretzkys era
- TheTrob

Saw your cubs post.....I think Theo did some good things but people tend to look the other way and give him a TON of room because he won "1st time in 100+ years" on those moves that crippled the team long term.....I am all for an aggressive GM but he just stupidly spent on some dumb free agents with term....look at Heyward. What is HIS contribution to the Cubs? A speech in the rain...otherwise he was been horrible and untradeable since the day he arrived.

That was exactly my point on goalie equipment, etc......going back and watching old highlights from the 80s and early 90s....hell the Larmer slapper against STL, etc all goalies standing up....challenging and if you could move laterally against them you had wide open 6x4.

Fun debate....I know we spoke too much Cubs....but the generational hockey debate was fun. Have a TON of respect for the older guys in those eras who just manned up and had very limited medical/therapy support and some had side jobs in the offseason because they weren't making HUGE money. Those guys got the guys today what they have now....so if they want to hang a few numbers in the rafters to remind current day players about it....fine by me.

#cubsbuzz
- Ogilthorpe2

hahaha....too much.

You duct taping anyone down up there? What a dolt that guy was......

hahaha....too much.

You duct taping anyone down up there? What a dolt that guy was......
- SteveRain

Not recently thankfully. People are crazy right now though. 2 million….LOL. Working a red eye tonight, so they should all be sleepy…especially if I can nail down just the right temperature back there.

Cubs won once. Hawks three of six. Theo is a genius who can do no wrong. Stan is a clown. Makes total sense.
- mohel

Just responding to Theo is overrated, they all make mistakes. Rather have 1 then none.

Never said Bowman was a clown. All i know is he really struggles drafting dmen

You mean a pack of cigarettes and a fifth of brown liquor doesn't cut it anymore?
- Chunk

Nor traveling on a Saturday night after a game in Montreal to get in town just in time to get ready for that 7:30 face-off on Sunday at the Stadium.

Give the old greats the same training support during their development that today’s greats have gotten and these comparisons are totally different.
- TheDrumonMadison

In the old days (before the 80's) Most would work on the farm all summer then come to training camp sober up and play into shape. Not many trained all year long and at the way they do today. The Sutter's were famous for it.

No doubt that it is hard to compare different eras, but I’d still take Bobby Orr over any current defenseman. The only defenseman that is somewhat close to his skills today is maybe Makar, but again, somewhat close is not quite there.
- Angotti

Bobby was a bad ass too.

In the old days (before the 80's) Most would work on the farm all summer then come to training camp sober up and play into shape. Not many trained all year long and at the way they do today. The Sutter's were famous for it.
- DestinBlackhawk

They had to take off season jobs, they couldn't afford to train all summer.

Not recently thankfully. People are crazy right now though. 2 million….LOL. Working a red eye tonight, so they should all be sleepy…especially if I can nail down just the right temperature back there.
- Ogilthorpe2

Safe flight.....

#cubsbuzz
- Ogilthorpe2

What's on the menu tonight for dinner?

Just responding to Theo is overrated, they all make mistakes. Rather have 1 then none.

Never said Bowman was a clown. All i know is he really struggles drafting dmen
- BetweenTheDots

Sorry, I meant those are narratives on the board, not yours personally.

What's on the menu tonight for dinner?
- mohel

anyone have any good smoker recipes? Ive done

Beer can chicken
brisket
ribs
pork tenderloin
beef tenderloin
turkey

Haven't done a pork shoulder. Sharkos ruined pulled pork for me a few years back....

What's on the menu tonight for dinner?
- mohel

Whatever it might be, Ogi does it best.

anyone have any good smoker recipes? Ive done

Beer can chicken
brisket
ribs
pork tenderloin
beef tenderloin
turkey

Haven't done a pork shoulder. Sharkos ruined pulled pork for me a few years back....
- SteveRain

Try beef ribs.

I don't believe that. There were any number of smaller players back in those days. Kane would gone through the systems and adjusted to the more physical aspects of those days.

When talking about hockey in the pre-expansion era, don't forget 3 teams were basically farm clubs for the other three. The whole territorial rights gave Montreal, Toronto and the Wings an advantage. Bruins, Rangers and Hawks were cannon fodder for alot of those years
- Elbows15

Camille Henry was maybe 5' 8" but he was tip in guy, who flew in positioned and got out.

MOST players were not Big/ TALL - Bobby was barely 5' 10 but 188.


Small player were always at a disadvantage, getting their heads scrambled, not being able to forcefully play a power game, just like now.

The toughest guys were the best players, and they usually handled the corners, the hits.

There were tons of what we now call middle six guys who were average in stature, but strong in game and toughness, and could score, but no one scored a lot except a few players. (Was it because they couldn't (as in high end elite talent?) probably more that the game was played more in a straight line and you had a man ot cover.

As Elbows said, there were three cannon fodder teams and the way they usually got talent was when the other three teams stole their player contract disputes by sendingvthem to the bottom feeder teams.
That hawk Championship team included their St. Catherine teepee farm guys Hull Mikita Makis Jarrett Ravelich , but the team was rounded out by the red wing discards (Glenn Hall, red hay) Toronto discards (Nesterabko, Eddie littenberger) ). Montreal discards (Ab mcDonald, Murray Balfour, Dolly st. Laurent, reggie Fleming,bob turner etc.

Gleybar Torres, Eloy Jimenez, Jorge Soler all traded for pitching and all impact hitters in the majors now. Lets not forget he also traded away DJ LeMahieu.....and wasted tons of money for how many appearances of Brandan Morrow?
- TheTrob

Torres got us a world series, can't fault him for the trade. Fault was trading Torres for nothing long term when they didn't resign Chapman.

They had to take off season jobs, they couldn't afford to train all summer.
- LAHawk

What were Mikita and Hull's first contract? Something like $12k... I think Mikita got a raise to $20k after he was good.

Torres got us a world series, can't fault him for the trade. Fault was trading Torres for nothing long term when they didn't resign Chapman.
- rpeters01

Trob is right that the guys he listed were impact hitters, and were traded for pitching. I excluded them because I was thinking of drafted players. Unfortunately, the last of those trades was the year after the WS. Few, if any, impact hitters have shown up since then. Nobody to trade for pitching. Nobody to replace players leaving for free agency.

What's on the menu tonight for dinner?
- mohel

I’m in San Fran, so it’ll probably involve seafood, but I haven’t figured it out yet.