No Toews
- BetweenTheDots

Asked for 2nd line qualifications, JT was #1 line centre.

Asked for 2nd line qualifications, JT was #1 line centre.
- scottak

My bad

I just think having Kane on that 2nd line elevates it. I think it'll be between Johnson and Borgstrom.

Holy cow. What are your qualifications to play second line in the NHL?
- Chunk

Simple, be better than all the other teams' second lines.

Look something very simple gets missed on this board day in and day out. Setting up lines that puts you in the "middle of the pack" or lower gets you guess what? The middle of the pack or lower. Our lines need to be better than an average line, not some "Joes" you cobble together. This only applies if you want to be a SC contender all else need not apply.

The 3rd line will have Johnson or Borgstrom with Dach

The 3rd line will have Johnson or Borgstrom with Dach
- BetweenTheDots

Giving up on Dach already?

And if Nylander can get it together, with his shot and with Toews and Kubs, line 1 could be pretty good.

Giving up on Dach already?
- Elbows15

Not at all, it really doesn't matter anyway, since JC juggles the lines all the time. Dach to me is a defense 1st guy

I think the 4th line is gonna be closer to Connelly/Carpenter/Khaira. That combo will be lucky to get 10.

I don't know why people(not you) keep putting Khaira at centre. He has only taken close to 300 FOs twice and he was at 45% in those seasons.


- Elbows15

Also, your 1st group are all waiver exempt. So I don't see them making the team out of camp. Plus, I don't think they signed Khaira to send him to the A. JMO.

Ya I doubt my line will make it outta camp, but it would be so much better than the
that will come outta camp. But I do think Hardman will be the next Bickell only better.

If you want to win a Stanley Cup, this is what you need. Evidentially, having at least 1 future HOFer on the 2nd line is an effective strategy.

Brouwer - Sharp - Hossa
or
Versteeg - Handzus - Kane
or
Bickell - Richards - Hossa

Heck, if Hossa is over his skin condition, he could probably still contribute more than some of the flotsam & jetsam the Hawks have iced the last few years.
- scottak

That's what I was saying. Is Kubalik not equal to or better than Brouwer, Versteeg, or Bickell? He's certainly a better point producer. He's also been above average defensively

Simple, be better than all the other teams' second lines.

Look something very simple gets missed on this board day in and day out. Setting up lines that puts you in the "middle of the pack" or lower gets you guess what? The middle of the pack or lower. Our lines need to be better than an average line, not some "Joes" you cobble together. This only applies if you want to be a SC contender all else need not apply.
- rpeters01

Define better. Does this mean score more goals than the other team? Prevent more than the other team? All of the above? What doesn't Kubalik do (in your eyes) that prevents him from being considered 2nd line?

Giving up on Dach already?
- Elbows15

We all know he’s a bust, get with the program Elbows.

That's what I was saying. Is Kubalik not equal to or better than Brouwer, Versteeg, or Bickell? He's certainly a better point producer. He's also been above average defensively
- Chunk

"Playoff Bickell" was a monster and Kubs is not in his class.

Define better. Does this mean score more goals than the other team? Prevent more than the other team? All of the above? What doesn't Kubalik do (in your eyes) that prevents him from being considered 2nd line?
- Chunk

Puck control and difficulty to play against to name two.

That's because on face-off the scoreboard always dropped the puck to one side even my little brother figured that out. We would bend the metal sticks you could shoot the puck all the way down the hall.
- rpeters01

Dog used to chew up those wood pucks. Had to make more by sawing off about 1/2 inch from an old broomstick.

Hagel is 22 and has only played 52 games. He averaged only 14 minutes per game usually on the 3rd or 4th lines with weak line mates. Even so he was nearly 0.5 pts per game. I am not ready to pigeon hole him as a bottom 6 player.

Even strength points per 60 minutes.
DeBrincat 2.621
Kane 2.582
Dach 2.139
Kubalik 1.964
Hagel 1.817
Suter 1.809
Strome 1.205 (Ugh)

By comparison
Couture 1.842
Kadri 1.841
Zajac 1.834
Danault 1.827
Kopitar 1.825
Horvat 1.814
Schwartz 1.809
Parise 1.796
Drouin1.780
- -Doh-

Can he grow into a top six player? Sure, but IMHO he’s currently not there. He will be fine on the third line, and like I mentioned earlier, he can move up in case of injury(s).

Dog used to chew up those wood pucks. Had to make more by sawing off about 1/2 inch from an old broomstick.
- boilermaker100

Funny we did the same thing with baseball bats for "basement" hockey. The roller puck was worthless.

I don't see this team averaging over 3 goals a game to be a top ten goal scoring team.
Center play should be better for sure. There are a lot of holes on the wing. The Hawks have 3 guys on the wing that can score. Maybe four with Hagel. That is a lot of questions that need answers.


Hopefully, they are better defensively but I still see a defense that is going to struggle to score 20 goals. While a 4th line isn't depended on to provide a lot of offense. You still need some and as it looks to me, the 4th line is going to struggle to score 10.

To get to 3 goals a game, the other 3 lines are going to have to score at least 200. A whole bunch of IFs have to hit, imo.

To make it interesting. 246 is the number for 3 goals a game.

Take a run at it with this current group.
- Elbows15

A lot of holes at wing? When did the Hawks have more than 3 wingers that can pot 30 a season? At best, the Hawks had Hossa, Saad, Sharp, and Kane....with only really Toews at center.

Saad's highest goal total was 23g with the Hawks in 14-15. I get it that you want to be negative but this forward group is pretty talented, at least offensively speaking.

Plenty of options at wing that can score. Plus talented centers sort of elevate their wingers too.....

And why is this board convinced Brett Connolly sucks? He can probably score 10-15 goals as a bottom 6 wing. Just like he has done most of his career. The guy isn't a no talent bum.

Tyler Johnson is probably good for 20g too. When was the last time the Hawks had a 3C for an entire season that could score 20g?

Suddenly all these question marks? For years the Hawks had a hole at 2C. Now there are talented options on the roster to fill that hole.... let's complain about the Hawks not having 4 bonafide top 6 forwards now....... YAWN.

Puck control and difficulty to play against to name two.
- rpeters01

Lol... because there are no top 6 forwards in the NHL that are offense first guys

I'm very curious to see this Borgstrom kid. If he's a top 6 center this will really help,

If Toews comes back you have Johnson, then Borgstrom and Dach you went from one of the worst to one of the deepest centerman group
- BetweenTheDots

I’d like to see a third line of Hagel, Borgstrom, and Kurashev/Johnson.

Puck control and difficulty to play against to name two.
- rpeters01

So John Madden/Marcus Kruger would have been 2nd line material? Kind of arbitrary and subjective (although that is what I asked for, so that's on me).

Kubalik has been an almost 0.7PPG player the last two years. He's also been part of lines that play very well defensively. I'd call that 2nd line quality. He's surely been better than some of the other players that have graced the CHI 2nd lines of yore.

Yes Bickell was a playoff monster. We have no idea what Kubalik will be in the playoffs, but he's had 9 games there (or at least what was considered the playoffs) and had 8 points, so there's that. This iteration of the Hawks needs guys that produce in the regular season as well, because otherwise they are not making the playoffs.

@MarkLazerus

In an internal memo, Blackhawks CEO Danny Wirtz says the Blackhawks will "share results (of the Jenner & Block internal review) with you, our partners and our fans and will promptly implement changes to address the findings and shortcomings of our organization."

Danny Wirtz: "I can assure you that we are using this process to engage in the self-reflection necessary to better our organization and ensure that our workplace is safe and inclusive. And while we await the results, we will continue a process of self evaluation."


=====
Social media outrage machine just deflated a bit
- pdx2ord

Self-reflection? Sounds woke to me and lends credence to the notion that he might rebrand the franchise.

Self-reflection? Sounds woke to me and lends credence to the notion that he might rebrand the franchise.


- Diamondhands

It's just a public statement on the matter so that there isn't just a silent void from the team. I wouldn't read all that much into it yet.

Lol... because there are no top 6 forwards in the NHL that are offense first guys

- bhawks2241

Scoring with the other two to be clear. I was naming what Kubalik doesn't do.

I don't see this team averaging over 3 goals a game to be a top ten goal scoring team.
Center play should be better for sure. There are a lot of holes on the wing. The Hawks have 3 guys on the wing that can score. Maybe four with Hagel. That is a lot of questions that need answers.


Hopefully, they are better defensively but I still see a defense that is going to struggle to score 20 goals. While a 4th line isn't depended on to provide a lot of offense. You still need some and as it looks to me, the 4th line is going to struggle to score 10.

To get to 3 goals a game, the other 3 lines are going to have to score at least 200. A whole bunch of IFs have to hit, imo.

To make it interesting. 246 is the number for 3 goals a game.

Take a run at it with this current group.
- Elbows15

in fairness can you throw out your line combos?

Hagel is 22 and has only played 52 games. He averaged only 14 minutes per game usually on the 3rd or 4th lines with weak line mates. Even so he was nearly 0.5 pts per game. I am not ready to pigeon hole him as a bottom 6 player.

Even strength points per 60 minutes.
DeBrincat 2.621
Kane 2.582
Dach 2.139
Kubalik 1.964
Hagel 1.817
Suter 1.809
Strome 1.205 (Ugh)

By comparison
Couture 1.842
Kadri 1.841
Zajac 1.834
Danault 1.827
Kopitar 1.825
Horvat 1.814
Schwartz 1.809
Parise 1.796
Drouin1.780
- -Doh-

Nice work here, sir........ I think Kubalik is really underrated and your list touches on that. Nice per 60 numbers but even better when given some context.

In his two yrs he's had 48% zone start, 14:22 TOI and 1:57 PP his first yr 15:31 and 2:25 PP last yr. Those are 3rd line and 2nd PP minutes. He had a 56 point pace both yrs and last yr fired 2.8 shots per game. ....... Last yr his most common linemates were Kampf and Hagel 1:27:58 followed by Strome and Kurashev 80:06 followed by Vinnie and Kurashev 43:11.

Even middle 6 minutes with a small bump in zone starts the fancies and eye test say this guy is at least a 60+ point player. His 2.6 and 2.8 points per 60, 56 point pace the last 2 yrs with 3rd line mates, 48% zone starts, never averaging 16:00 are impressive. Add he was a +2 and -3 on bad clubs his 2 yrs here he's a guy you want on the roster at a still young 25 yrs old.