Oldest… youngest… Stan doesn’t care. The Hawks will be the SHORTEST team in the NHL.

Stan right now (probably):

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- DarthKane

Love it .Nothing like the A team to inspire confidence .

Very aggressive Bowman this off season.. Big money deals too. Hmmmmmm

I was on board with the rebuild a nd settled for at best mediocrity over the next few seasons. I've also stated its time for Bowman to go...not so much because of the moves he's made but because I believe a franchise benefits from a different perspective after a decade. I've never felt a player was rushed nor do I feel a dman's development is determined by what goaltender plays in net. I don't believe in throwing money at a problem or plugging a hole and at the same time I understand each move he's made...
- NamedSources

well if the fancy charts don't like when you're on the ice when a goal is scored against you....it will hurt. THere is a different swagger in player in football with a reliable QB, or a pitcher in baseball, or a goalie in hockey that allows players to play loose and not hyper focus on everything and "out think" themselves. Especially young players busting tail to solidify a shot in the show. That;s my point...anyone who has played any organizational sport realizes it. You play relaxed and it pays off in your performance.

I don't know if Bowman will be fired....any time soon. hate to say it, but his name is hockey royalty and getting his dad on board was McDonough's biggest thing upon being hired....add in loyalty and all the money and titles the Hawks won.....tough day for the Wirtz family to can him.

Ideally he should have been fired when they bottomed out vs Nashville and got swept. That was the time. Now? It'll be chalked up to law suit and not his team building.

If tjhis blows sky high....you build around Jones, DeBrincat and Dach (assuming he doesn't bust out)

You ask Toews and Kane where they want to go and start working the phones.....Take a smaller package to move Toews, and get some young cost controlled players and 1-2 picks for Kane.

At that point, all 31 teams are in play because by the time you are ready to win, 88/19 are having heritage nights at the UC
- SteveRain

But not all 31 teams are in play...and if this scenario is true there are only about ten teams actually in play in terms of Kane or Toews entertaining a trade to those ten teams. Then you have to find a team willing to shed multiple assets including picks and prospects....have to line up and fit the money...and by the way not sacrifice depth while making a cup run. It's not easy...and we went from 31 teams in play down to 10...to maybe 2 or 3....to eventually 1.

This is where you lose me. I don't believe players have these type of conversations with two years left on a deal. Like all players Kane wants to win and if Bowman knows anything...he knows that and doesn't need to be told by Kane himself or his agent. Trading a player like Kane or Toews is difficult because of the amount of money...most teams that are good don't have over 10 million in open cap space nor would they be willing to part with multiple assets equal to that plus prospects and picks.
- NamedSources

you dont think in an exit interview that Kane's words hold more water than saw Zadorov? Exactly what happened and why they traded Keith.

Toews got his reprieve this year....he wasn't going through another losing year and putting up high end numbers given the roster construction.

If Kane was available, teams would make it work by sending additional assets to cover a turd deal the Hawks had to take on OR retain salary on.....

I could be 100% wrong but kane doens't strike me as a guy who enjoys losing and being 1 of the few guys still producing at an elite level with very little help in sight.

well if the fancy charts don't like when you're on the ice when a goal is scored against you....it will hurt. THere is a different swagger in player in football with a reliable QB, or a pitcher in baseball, or a goalie in hockey that allows players to play loose and not hyper focus on everything and "out think" themselves. Especially young players busting tail to solidify a shot in the show. That;s my point...anyone who has played any organizational sport realizes it. You play relaxed and it pays off in your performance.

I don't know if Bowman will be fired....any time soon. hate to say it, but his name is hockey royalty and getting his dad on board was McDonough's biggest thing upon being hired....add in loyalty and all the money and titles the Hawks won.....tough day for the Wirtz family to can him.

Ideally he should have been fired when they bottomed out vs Nashville and got swept. That was the time. Now? It'll be chalked up to law suit and not his team building.
- SteveRain

That's not always true. If your d unit is young with a young goalie you are growing together. You are a unit...you're a family...you're more dedicated to each other because you are failing...getting back up...doing it again and driven to the point of success together. You can't buy that nor can you coach it. That synergy is special.

you dont think in an exit interview that Kane's words hold more water than saw Zadorov? Exactly what happened and why they traded Keith.

Toews got his reprieve this year....he wasn't going through another losing year and putting up high end numbers given the roster construction.

If Kane was available, teams would make it work by sending additional assets to cover a turd deal the Hawks had to take on OR retain salary on.....

I could be 100% wrong but kane doens't strike me as a guy who enjoys losing and being 1 of the few guys still producing at an elite level with very little help in sight.
- SteveRain

Read what I read again. Again, Kane doesn't have to say anything nor are Toews and Kane giving ultimatums. I wouldn't call Toews missing this past season due to health reasons a reprieve.

NOW we agree.....100%

You don't publicly say you are rebuilding and then do a dramatic 180...I also think Kane told them he wants to win and will play out his deal but if he didnt see a light....he was walking. That's my opinion ZERO fact but if you think about it.....Hawks have zero face without Kane.....Keith, Seabrook, HOssa, Sharp, Hammer, Crawford, all long gone......Toews is likely done after his next deal.....kane is the only one of the core still producing.

Add that to a poop storm of negative news and how do you quiet it and get fans excited? Bring in KNOWN established players......

THis whole band aid approach rips off if Bowman isn't on a plane to sit with Fleury and convince him to play......because the other 3 can't hold Fleury's 36 year old jock.....and I know you hate goalies, but Fleury is another level.....this isn't Huet or Lehner....this guy shores up many holes on a team that at times has zero clue what defense is.
- SteveRain

Big stretch to say Kane is the only one producing when Toews just came off being nearly a point per game over the previous two seasons before missing last year. There are pieces of the new core starting to shine, with Debrincat leading in goals over the last two seasons with 50 and Kublik netting 47. (Kane had 48). The rebuild has been going on for a while now and I don't think it's been a 180 if they moved out the contracts of Keith and Seabrook.

If tjhis blows sky high....you build around Jones, DeBrincat and Dach (assuming he doesn't bust out)

You ask Toews and Kane where they want to go and start working the phones.....Take a smaller package to move Toews, and get some young cost controlled players and 1-2 picks for Kane.

At that point, all 31 teams are in play because by the time you are ready to win, 88/19 are having heritage nights at the UC
- SteveRain

Toews will always be an LTIR candidate after last year you would have trouble moving him half retained for a bag of pucks.

But not all 31 teams are in play...and if this scenario is true there are only about ten teams actually in play in terms of Kane or Toews entertaining a trade to those ten teams. Then you have to find a team willing to shed multiple assets including picks and prospects....have to line up and fit the money...and by the way not sacrifice depth while making a cup run. It's not easy...and we went from 31 teams in play down to 10...to maybe 2 or 3....to eventually 1.
- NamedSources

retain salary, take on a guy they can afford to give up.....it would take months of planning but it could happen.

Just saying teams find ways when the elite guys come to market......even in a flat cap world.

Read what I read again. Again, Kane doesn't have to say anything nor are Toews and Kane giving ultimatums. I wouldn't call Toews missing this past season due to health reasons a reprieve.
- NamedSources

how many teams have multiple units all young at once? Rarely happens. Even more rare large portion of D and the goalie all stay together beyond entry level deals.

Read what I read again. Again, Kane doesn't have to say anything nor are Toews and Kane giving ultimatums. I wouldn't call Toews missing this past season due to health reasons a reprieve.
- NamedSources

he was away from hockey...by himself....said he didn't watch a lot of the early season and then did so like a fan.....I call that a mental reprieve....get away from the game adn took care of his health and his mind.

It doesn't technically disappear, just gives them flexibility to spend higher the closer they are to the cap when they put him on LTIR. They still have to be cap compliant to start the season. Hawks were carrying to much LTIR to start the season, with almost 11M between Shaw and Seabrook.
- breadbag

TB carried 18M. Didn't seem to bother them. Everyone gets themselves tied into knots with the nuances of LTIR. Its not complicated. Use it and it extends your cap for useful players.

Part of me feels the way The Hawks are going about their business is they are becoming the team we used to laugh at...throwing money at free agents and losing sight of the foundation...I do think we are better with Jones, Fleury, Johnson than we were last year...but what is the cost in the long run....as of now and after this year the cap situation should be good but I feel like we are becoming......The Flyers.
- NamedSources

Welcome to 4 days ago.

retain salary, take on a guy they can afford to give up.....it would take months of planning but it could happen.

Just saying teams find ways when the elite guys come to market......even in a flat cap world.
- SteveRain

But again...Kane is a top 10 player in the league and when you take on a guy the other team can afford to give up that means...dead weight and if you are the Hawks you don't want dead weight you want number 1's and top prospects and maybe take on an expiring contract...then that team has to be on Kane's desired list. Tell me a guy who is making top end money who is still a top 10 player that has been traded...I can't think of any.

Big stretch to say Kane is the only one producing when Toews just came off being nearly a point per game over the previous two seasons before missing last year. There are pieces of the new core starting to shine, with Debrincat leading in goals over the last two seasons with 50 and Kublik netting 47. (Kane had 48). The rebuild has been going on for a while now and I don't think it's been a 180 if they moved out the contracts of Keith and Seabrook.
- breadbag

toews hasn't been ranked a top 20 center the last few years by NHL network or other agencies. Even if healthy, I think he's a LONG Shot to make team Canada unless they take him for a checking role and rely on his intangibles (still valuable)...but hes diminishing a lot quicker than Kane before his health scare.

Don't tell this board about DeBrincat...eveyone had him gone when the fancy charts said so after last year.......ignoring the eye test and just horrible luck and confidence down in the dumps. Huge sack up by him this year and that tells you kid has "it" upstairs.

See if Dach can do something similar....big year ahead for 77

debrincat dach kane
johnson toews kubalik
hagel kurashev reichel
- SteveRain

Your top line has shown ability to work in 2 seasons. Johnson and Kurashev may be the start of something on a 3rd line.

TB carried 18M. Didn't seem to bother them. Everyone gets themselves tied into knots with the nuances of LTIR. Its not complicated. Use it and it extends your cap for useful players.
- Elbows15

We had to carry more than they did last year and we don't know who will get injured between now and the start of the season. Its really not ideal.

how many teams have multiple units all young at once? Rarely happens. Even more rare large portion of D and the goalie all stay together beyond entry level deals.
- SteveRain

That's what I'm saying. That could've been the Hawks and then when the young D unit takes the next step then you add a veteran goalie if need be.

I think having a Vezina Trophy winner to young developing defensive core actually adds more pressure and hurts their development. They're not ready for that type of beast. In the end it doesn't matter because that ship has sailed.

We had to carry more than they did last year and we don't know who will get injured between now and the start of the season. Its really not ideal.
- breadbag

Dach will get hurt.

But again...Kane is a top 10 player in the league and when you take on a guy the other team can afford to give up that means...dead weight and if you are the Hawks you don't want dead weight you want number 1's and top prospects and maybe take on an expiring contract...then that team has to be on Kane's desired list. Tell me a guy who is making top end money who is still a top 10 player that has been traded...I can't think of any.
- NamedSources

Hossa was traded......think he was cheap when he went to the Penguins.

I can't think of any and we would have to line up a time frame, but to flip it a little....how many top 10 guys were in the twilight of their careers, still producing at an elite level and wanted out (hypothetically)? I guess to that parameter I would say the comparables would be if the Caps traded Ovechkin or the Penguins traded Malkin or Crosby.

There was a chatter about Doughty being available but the Kings are said to be hell bent on rushing along their rebuild/retool to appease him....so that's squashed.

That's what I'm saying. That could've been the Hawks and then when the young D unit takes the next step then you add a veteran goalie if need be.

I think having a Vezina Trophy winner to young developing defensive core actually adds more pressure and hurts their development. They're not ready for that type of beast. In the end it doesn't matter because that ship has sailed.
- NamedSources

I can see that angle as well......like you said ship has sailed.....IF, and still a huge IF.....Fleury reports.

God every time I type that I just hate walsh more and more....what a d bag that guy is.

Welcome to 4 days ago.
- Elbows15

I'm still in favor of the Jones move and I also agree it's to much money and for to many assets...I think he does rebound and return to form...I don't get the Fleury move...I don't think the talent is in place to support a guy like that...plus we should've received a number 1 or multiple 2's. I would rather have Suter and/or Danault than Johnson.

Hossa was traded......think he was cheap when he went to the Penguins.

I can't think of any and we would have to line up a time frame, but to flip it a little....how many top 10 guys were in the twilight of their careers, still producing at an elite level and wanted out (hypothetically)? I guess to that parameter I would say the comparables would be if the Caps traded Ovechkin or the Penguins traded Malkin or Crosby.

There was a chatter about Doughty being available but the Kings are said to be hell bent on rushing along their rebuild/retool to appease him....so that's squashed.
- SteveRain

It wouldn't surprise me if Kane re-ups with Hawks similar to Ovi in Washington

I'm still in favor of the Jones move and I also agree it's to much money and for to many assets...I think he does rebound and return to form...I don't get the Fleury move...I don't think the talent is in place to support a guy like that...plus we should've received a number 1 or multiple 2's. I would rather have Suter and/or Danault than Johnson.
- NamedSources

fun exchange with many of you tonight.....before I head to bed.....

is it fair when guys like Danault or Suter go elsewhere and get a bigger role than what was available to them on the hawks, we realize that and maybe not bemoan Stan for passing on them?

I mean can this team afford Suter right now after the Jones deal and where does he slot in?

Same goes for Danault who I know they cant afford and where he slots in "3rd line c"