Critical thinking is the analysis of facts to form a judgment. The subject is complex, and several different definitions exist, which generally include the rational, skeptical, unbiased analysis, or evaluation of factual evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

Notice how it doesn’t just say take one guy’s opinion as the truth, and stop thinking for yourself? Or that critical thinking is the exclusive domain of the person with the most tools and resources? There’s a ton of subjectivity in scouting hockey players, which is why you need to consider multiple perspectives, and process as much information as possible. And while I’m certainly not an NHL executive, there are 31 other teams doing the exact same thing as Dorion/Mann, and for this year coming up with very different conclusions. So did the vast majority of draft experts, and media pundits. Within that broad consensus there can certainly be variance and outliers, however the selection of Boucher was unquestionably the biggest reach for a #10 pick in at least the past 15 years. So it’s really quite wrong to imply that it’s just another “different” pick by the Senators.

The majority opinion seems to be that the Senators got “their guys” with those 3 early picks, but that was based on a pretty clear bias for adding size/physical play to their prospect pool, and that they left a ton of value on the table in terms of player quality. Even the Senators couldn’t pretend that they’d gone after the best players available, so I don’t know what your problem is. They did what they wanted, and that’s their prerogative. But it’s not like people shouldn’t be open to questioning whether it was the best use of their draft assets, or addressed the most pressing team needs. Personally, I don’t think it was a good draft on either front, and I think they failed to capitalize well enough on a very valuable asset in the #10 overall pick. But I’ll certainly hope that Boucher, Ostapchuk, and Roger prove me wrong in terms of my estimation of their ability.
- khawk

Whoa! Perhaps, you want to turn critical thinking upside down.

It would seem to me that the pandemic, specifically the suspension of regular play, requires different evaluation models.

Trent Mann says they had to pursue entirely different lines of inquiry from previous years because of this lack of competition and the chance to witness play and measure the growth of players following conventional scouting methods.

So, if you want to apply critical thinking, you must first start with a philosophers principle of charity and argue the merit of Trent Mann's foundational notion that "you don't know what we know." On the surface, it would appear to me, that what we do not know about the 2021 draft class is vastly larger than what we do know.

We have gone a full season and a half without critical information or data. We need to stipulate that we really don't know. So, the clarity of our choices becomes clearer.

We can try to chicken wire a solution by putting incomplete and stale data into a fragile evaluation model. Or, we can support the personal astrology and witchcraft used by Dorion and Mann for making their selections.

Clearly, it is only accurate to say we don't know. On the surface, it appears the root of your frustration is directed at those Sens fans, including me, who have decided to support a pathway of intuition and witchcraft.

Hey! You googled it. Good for you. And the cut / paste. Not bad!

Critical thinking isn't copying the homework of the kid next to you after he has asked some of his classmates their answers. Let's be honest here. Your exercise in critical thinking is nothing more than that. Your opinion is based on a bunch of lists compiled by pundits and writers who never actually watched much hockey to compile their lists. The funny thing is you accuse people of blindly following Mr. Mann when it is actually you who are the person blindly following some talking heads and their draft lists.

There are amateur fellows on discussion boards who actually did some pre-draft homework and identified Boucher as the player the Senators were going to draft.

Edit: Here you go. I have no idea who this fellow is.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/179123553/

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/179289372/

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/177380153/
- HoweHatrick

Great reference. I wonder how different the amateur opinions might have been, if they had waited until the end of the Stanley Cup playoffs to finalize their lists.

Everybody now wants a Yanni Gourd or a Blake Coleman. Rangers went big to sign Goodrow.

Dorion clearly believes he can win through mixing skill and speed with a heavy dose of smash mouth hockey. I am truly excited to see that we are rapidly heading towards the Sens becoming the most hated team in the East.

My vote is in. After a 5 year absence, I have decided to purchase a season ticket package.

I wonder if Dahlin could be a bundle trade. If the Sabres are retooling....unlikely but fun to think of

I wonder if Dahlin could be a bundle trade. If the Sabres are retooling.
- spazzbot

Travis Yost had a great column on TSN yesterday. He proposed a straight up trade of Dahlin for Marner. Would give Sabres scoring on a long term contract. Would provide Leafs with a substantial upgrade on defence and help repair some of the cap damage they have brought upon themselves.

Travis Yost had a great column on TSN yesterday. He proposed a straight up trade of Dahlin for Marner. Would give Sabres scoring on a long term contract. Would provide Leafs with a substantial upgrade on defence and help repair some of the cap damage they have brought upon themselves.
- spatso

Cause Buffalo fans want a really heavy cap hit on a player who would not help them compete but could potentially lift them out of the basement and top 5 picks. Marner would likely be a huge malcontent and would also be free to leave in 5 years.

Michael Traikos:

The week that was: Some believed the Senators over-reached in using the 10th overall pick on scrappy forward Tyler Boucher, but Seidel praised the selection. “Boucher is very hard to handle and plays the style of game that fans will love, and coaches will covet in the playoffs,” he said, while giving Ottawa an overall B-minus grade for taking a chance on second-rounders Zack Ostapchuk and Benjamin Roger, who didn’t play because of the pandemic. “Trent Mann and Al Murray are the two best scouts in the NHL, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt after his past few drafts."

3 Brady contracts

6 years - 7 per (42M)
7 years - 7.2 per (50.4M)
8 years - 7.5 per (60M)

Rank the order of contracts you would want him to sign to?

Michael Traikos:

The week that was: Some believed the Senators over-reached in using the 10th overall pick on scrappy forward Tyler Boucher, but Seidel praised the selection. “Boucher is very hard to handle and plays the style of game that fans will love, and coaches will covet in the playoffs,” he said, while giving Ottawa an overall B-minus grade for taking a chance on second-rounders Zack Ostapchuk and Benjamin Roger, who didn’t play because of the pandemic. “Trent Mann and Al Murray are the two best scouts in the NHL, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt after his past few drafts."
- spatso

Whoever scouts / scouted for Tampa

Cups 4-5 years from now is what will tell

3 Brady contracts

6 years - 7 per (42M)
7 years - 7.2 per (50.4M)
8 years - 7.5 per (60M)

Rank the order of contracts you would want him to sign to?
- AlfieisKing

I would honestly take all of them. I'd even take the exact same bridge deal that his brother signed in CAL. My worry is he is going to want 8 mill a year.

I would honestly take all of them. I'd even take the exact same bridge deal that his brother signed in CAL. My worry is he is going to want 8 mill a year.
- GrimmdaGoalie

I think he gets $9.25m for 8 years.

Remember the back half of the contract will have the full benefit of the new US TV deal but free of the restrictive limits of the cap and escrow (caused by revenue decreases from the pandemic).

$9m. is the new $7m.

In 2-3 more years we'll be going through another rebuild. The Sens and the Ottawa media will put the usual positive spin on everything and the fans will jump onboard again. Of course Melnyck will have different management and coaching personnel in place, there'll be another teardown and we'll be going through the same crap.

In 2-3 more years we'll be going through another rebuild. The Sens and the Ottawa media will put the usual positive spin on everything and the fans will jump onboard again. Of course Melnyck will have different management and coaching personnel in place, there'll be another teardown and we'll be going through the same crap.
- granpa

You sound like you are sliding into the realm of resentment and bitterness.

Usually suggests some form of wound or injury caused by the object of the resentment.

What is the most significant action or decision by the Sens at the root of your unhappiness.

I am still hoping the Senators take a page from the Bolts' / Bruins' playbook and try to keep all players at or under the Chabot $8M x 8 mark to ensure the cap is managed and the team remains competitive.

There are amateur fellows on discussion boards who actually did some pre-draft homework and identified Boucher as the player the Senators were going to draft.
- HoweHatrick

By actual pre-draft homework, you mean listened to an interview with Mann, where he indicated they would favour tough to play against players vs. taking the best players available? I guess that makes him a genius for repeating what he heard? But wait a tick... is nobody even going to frisk the notion that they overtly didn't even try to take the best player available to them? And that's just fine with everyone, is it? Well I don't think that's a very good idea, and an awful lot of people would seem to agree. But now we're back to everyone being stupid who doesn't like the pick because they aren't professional scouts.

Whatever... this is soul-eroding. You guys are obviously in Mann-blow mode, so go ahead and enjoy.

You sound like you are sliding into the realm of resentment and bitterness.

Usually suggests some form of wound or injury caused by the object of the resentment.

What is the most significant action or decision by the Sens at the root of your unhappiness.
- spatso

sliding into?

He's been at the bottom of that hole for like 3 years now.......98% of what he posts is doom and gloom about how awful the coach is, how useless the gm is, how poop the players are

i'm convinced he's just a leaf/hab fan who created a burner account to troll the sens

In 2-3 more years we'll be going through another rebuild. The Sens and the Ottawa media will put the usual positive spin on everything and the fans will jump onboard again. Of course Melnyck will have different management and coaching personnel in place, there'll be another teardown and we'll be going through the same crap.
- granpa

What makes you say this? The team appeared to be taking some steps forward this year. Although many teams likely thought that at some point and only proceeded to spin their tires. For example Buffalo.

It's far to early to claim the rebuild has been a success, but also to already claim it's failed.

Michael Traikos:

The week that was: Some believed the Senators over-reached in using the 10th overall pick on scrappy forward Tyler Boucher, but Seidel praised the selection. “Boucher is very hard to handle and plays the style of game that fans will love, and coaches will covet in the playoffs,” he said, while giving Ottawa an overall B-minus grade for taking a chance on second-rounders Zack Ostapchuk and Benjamin Roger, who didn’t play because of the pandemic. “Trent Mann and Al Murray are the two best scouts in the NHL, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt after his past few drafts."
- spatso

I agree that they've been great scouts and can give them the benefit of the doubt on the pick(s), but if they knew they were really reaching (and they did), why not trade back and get an additional asset? It's the tenth pick and the guy was slated late 1st round, you could get a decent return and still get your guy.

Sens development team:
Drafting - great
Contracts - okay
Trades (and non-trades) - pretty bad

3 Brady contracts

6 years - 7 per (42M)
7 years - 7.2 per (50.4M)
8 years - 7.5 per (60M)

Rank the order of contracts you would want him to sign to?
- AlfieisKing

I'll take the 8 year deal, but I don't think Brady will. Sounds like he wants a 3yr bridge deal like his brother. I would feel much better if they would wrap this up.

Last off-season we went out and brought in all these "veteran character" guys to insulate our youth. And what happened? They were terrible, leaving all of us to wonder if management and the coaching staff were ever gonna trust their younger players. We looked like poop on the ice with Stepan, Paquette, etc..

A couple of injuries later, and Smith's hand was forced to ice more kids. And what what the result? We started playing better. A LOT better. The Sens really just need to let our guys play. Will there be bumps along the road of their development? Sure. But the only way to learn in this scenario is to go through the motions and figure it out.

Chabot - Zaitsev
Brännström - Zub
Mete - J. Brown

That sure as heck isn't the sexiest D-core. If there's a good fit to add someone that makes sense, do it. Personally, I do believe that JBD, Sanderson, and Thomsson likely need more time to develop. But let's also make sure guys like Brännström and Zub are getting the ice-time they need and deserve.

3 Brady contracts

6 years - 7 per (42M)
7 years - 7.2 per (50.4M)
8 years - 7.5 per (60M)

Rank the order of contracts you would want him to sign to?
- AlfieisKing

There might have to be more salary distribution across those three terms, otherwise Tkachuk would just take the shortest and go to UFA status as early as possible. Regardless, they definitely have to be careful with these contracts, as it won't be long before they have legitimate issues with long-term salary cap viability. Chabot may very well have set the market (or at least the AAV) for guys like Tkachuk and Stutzle, and Batherson could be about to effectively set the market for the 2nd-tier players like Norris and maybe Sanderson (down the line).

Would people be generally happy if they managed to get their core signed to something along the lines of:
$8Mx8yrs - Chabot, Stutzle, Tkachuk (or maybe $8Mx6yrs)
$6Mx6yrs - Batherson, Norris, Sanderson

They'd all have quite different start/end dates, clearly, but at its peak overlap timeline it would be $42M AAV for their six best players.

Last off-season we went out and brought in all these "veteran character" guys to insulate our youth. And what happened? They were terrible, leaving all of us to wonder if management and the coaching staff were ever gonna trust their younger players. We looked like poop on the ice with Stepan, Paquette, etc..

A couple of injuries later, and Smith's hand was forced to ice more kids. And what what the result? We started playing better. A LOT better. The Sens really just need to let our guys play. Will there be bumps along the road of their development? Sure. But the only way to learn in this scenario is to go through the motions and figure it out.

Chabot - Zaitsev
Brännström - Zub
Mete - J. Brown

That sure as heck isn't the sexiest D-core. If there's a good fit to add someone that makes sense, do it. Personally, I do believe that JBD, Sanderson, and Thomsson likely need more time to develop. But let's also make sure guys like Brännström and Zub are getting the ice-time they need and deserve.
- PavohnDatsvares

Did the Sens kids play better because they were simply better than the Vets who were brought in, or did they play better because they were given time to grow while insulated while the vets served as cannon fodder?

Either way, I agree with your larger point, and would like to see the kids play with minimal additions to the roster.

Florida got Reinhardt for a very good price. Ottawa could have easily matched or bettered the Florida offer. Reinhardt has already signalled that he wants to sign a long term deal and the language from his camp sounds reasonable.

Wonder if Dorion held back from going all in. Does he remain on the edges looking to jump in on one of the larger fishes that are still being floated.

Ottawa, Anahiem, LA, Columbus...perhaps Montreal have the cap space and assets to do a deal for Eichel. We hear that the two teams leading the charge are Minnesota and Rangers. But, let's be realistic, Minnesota is dead in the water. They do not have sufficient cap space beyond next year to accommodate an Eichel contract. The buy outs of Suter and Parise were not helpful. The Rangers, on the other hand, have some nice pieces but they are not prepared to offer up any elite pieces.

I am not a fan of Sens chasing Eichel. Would be more content with a solid veteran presence like Monaghan or Henrique at a more modest cost.
- spatso

I don't know why everyone started hating on Monahan around a year or so ago. In his 8 seasons in the NHL, last year was the only year he didn't reach the 20g tier (only 50 games played). Scoring 20+ goals in 7 out of 8 years is pretty good. I think Sens fans will be very pleased if Tkachuk, Stützle, Norris, and Batherson can all accomplish that.

Additionally, in three of those seasons he hit 30g (and 2 more seasons at 27 goals). So if you round up a bit, he basically scored 30 goals in 5 of his 8 seasons.

He's still a reliable two-way guy. And it seems his value is currently relatively low. I agree; IF the Sens bring in a center via trade, I would prefer a guy like Monahan over Eichel. Lord knows what we'd have to give up to land Eichel.

Sean is also still only 26. He's only two years older than Jack (both of their birthdays are in October). He's got two years left at $6.375M. It's a bit high, maybe. But we certainly would have the room to fit him. I believe he does have a NTC. Would he waive for Ottawa? Maybe not.

Anyway, like I said in my previous post, I would prefer we stay the course with our young guys. I'm just saying IF we want to bring in a forward via trade, I'd prefer a guy like Monahan over Eichel, as Jack will cost a king's ransom.

By actual pre-draft homework, you mean listened to an interview with Mann, where he indicated they would favour tough to play against players vs. taking the best players available? I guess that makes him a genius for repeating what he heard? But wait a tick... is nobody even going to frisk the notion that they overtly didn't even try to take the best player available to them? And that's just fine with everyone, is it? Well I don't think that's a very good idea, and an awful lot of people would seem to agree. But now we're back to everyone being stupid who doesn't like the pick because they aren't professional scouts.

Whatever... this is soul-eroding. You guys are obviously in Mann-blow mode, so go ahead and enjoy.
- khawk

Not so much. I am simply content to let the man do his job and see how things pan out.

Please, continue to piss and moan. The more you carry on the worse you sound. Doubly so if the pick ends up being solid.

You sound like you are sliding into the realm of resentment and bitterness.

Usually suggests some form of wound or injury caused by the object of the resentment.

What is the most significant action or decision by the Sens at the root of your unhappiness.
- spatso

The root of my unhappiness is that this team is showing "0 growth" in the past 2 years. They're more exciting to watch but they produce the same results. The players change but the same management and coaching is in place. Same philosophy, same message, same results, same group in charge.

Sorry I haven't been able to join in the discussion over the last day, great hockey talk in here.

My new piece is up!