These moves are already pretty big
- SuperSchennBros

Are you arguing with yourself?

Lmao, that’s gold . Good for G
- ClaudeFather

It was certainly a weird question to ask imo.

What’s the 3C status look like right now? I’m assuming it’s Frost but with both him and Hayes coming off major injuries and not a lot of depth behind them center depth is about the biggest concern I have for the roster right now.
- hereticpride

I could see frost more in a 2C, offensive opportunities. Hayes as a 3c with some defensive zone starts or against bigger lines.

As it site right now, with those two, Couturier, and Laughton we are not in a bad position at Center. My concern is Winger depth.

Would lines look something like this?
G Couts Allison
JVR Frost Atkinson
Farabee Hayes Konecny
Lindblom Laughton NAK

In response to the first issue you quoted, a good player's relative stats, which is what we are talking about, don't actually get dragged down when playing on a bad team. They tend to rise. This is what I said in my original post, and provided the reasoning why by way of example (So, the fact that Risto's possession stats are bad can be explained by poor teammates. The fact that he drags the possession stats of his teammates down cannot). Hope I was clear about the distinction.

In response to "magic" etc, often when people talk about such intangibles, there is a stat that can capture it if you look deeply enough. In this case, Montreal had actually extremely good stats. Look where they are:

(EDIT: arrange teams by Fenwick and you will see they are 3rd)
- PT21

No, they don't tend to rise, they get dragged down. That's a simple common sense fact that has been proven time and again. The reason why his teammates are dragged down when playing with him is because they play in tougher situations when playing with Ristolainen.

i dont mind what you say, but you say it over and over. Very repetitive, waiting for someone to agree with you or something. Say something new, and then i wont whine about it.

so whats next? i think we gotta sign hart and travis then see how much we have left for a goalie. Hopefully Couts gets extended before the season starts too, dont need that hanging over the season
- bradster

I don't actually say the same thing. If you just read the tone and not the content, or looked only at the bottom line, that's what you would see. I always try to give reasons for my view, probably too much so for here. Can't help it though.

About Couts: I would think he is an idiot if he signs now without seeing what the changes mean.

Travis: sure.

I agree with your favorite poster Tomahawk that Fletcher will likely sign a 1A goalie, as all the changes he made risk coming to naught if he goes belly up again.

Yes, really first round and 2nd round picks have more potential to drive this team to being a contender than the moves he made recently. Here you go again, devaluing draft picks in order to justify the moves. Which I will remind you of the next time you criticize a team for doing the same.

What could possibly elevate this team to a Cup team would be if Hart rapidly escalates to becoming a top NHL goaltender. Or if a player like Frost or York turns out to be more than projected. Otherwise the most likely outcome is a team that is not good enough and now has aging players signed to high contracts that have declined such as Hayes, Ellis, Ristolainen and Atkinson.
- MJL

The Flyers have several young players on their roster now: Hart, TK, Sanheim, Provorov, Allison, Frost, Farabee, York, Lindblom, NAK and Laczynski. They also have good young players banging at the door or will soon will be: Zamula, Foerster, O'Brien, Wisdom, Ratcliff, Sandin, Kase, Cates, Sandstrom etc. How many young prospects does a team need? And don't forget the Flyers just added another what, 6 prospects to their system. They have enough right now, the cupboards are overflowing! The Flyers need balance, they need veteran leaders, they need toughness, they need more skill, grit, and speed. I don't devalue picks, I look at the reality of where this team is now, and picks are not as valuable right now compared to getting players that can actually play and win games.

When Hextall joined the Flyers as GM, their cupboards were empty, so it made sense that Hextall values draft picks more. But now is a different time, and this org is in a different position.

EDIT: * By the way, Malkin is apparently a classic example of this phenomenon. Good player on good team (5 years ago) with negative relative stats.
- PT21

Again, missing the point and not understanding the stat. A player like Malkin may have a negative relative stat compared to the players on the top line with Crosby but that doesn't mean that Malkin's stats are bad.

you should probably pull your head out of your ass
- black_francis

Dude, the only thing in my ass when I read this board are stupid posts, and they just pass right through me.

I just noticed you moved from Portland to NJ?

It was certainly a weird question to ask imo.
- Hextall271

Carchidi was just trying to stir things up and get a non-story.

Ever since Panotch left, I think I have read 1 good article by him. It's the one on Foerster's skating last year.

The Flyers have several young players on their roster now: Hart, TK, Sanheim, Provorov, Allison, Frost, Farabee, York, Lindblom, NAK and Laczynski. They also have good young players banging at the door or will soon will be: Zamula, Foerster, O'Brien, Wisdom, Ratcliff, Sandin, Kase, Cates, Sandstrom etc. How many young prospects does a team need? And don't forget the Flyers just added another what, 6 prospects to their system. They have enough right now, the cupboards are overflowing! The Flyers need balance, they need veteran leaders, they need toughness, they need more skill, grit, and speed. I don't devalue picks, I look at the reality of where this team is now, and picks are not as valuable right now compared to getting players that can actually play and win games.

When Hextall joined the Flyers as GM, their cupboards were empty, so it made sense that Hextall values draft picks more. But now is a different time, and this org is in a different position.
- jd250

Im curious on the original post from MJL, how do the 1st and 2nd round picks have more potential than our recently aquired players? Is there stats or something that back that up, or just an opinion.

The problem is that you aren't open minded and aren't open to the possibility that Ristolianen's numbers weren't dragged down due to the team he played on. You refuse to accept that the numbers aren't individual player numbers. They're team numbers.

If the numbers we have available to us as fans, were so good, teams wouldn't need to spend money on an analytics department. Why do you think they do?
- MJL

How many times have we heard Fletcher say this off season that defense is a team stat, not an individual one. Its clueless to look at possession metrics for 1 player who has played for a laughing stock of a team for his entire career and say he is not a good player. PT21, I will bet you MJL's house that RR's possession metrics are dramatically better this year!

It was certainly a weird question to ask imo.
- Hextall271

What happened?

No. G will sign another contract with the Flyers next year. He will take a discount. He wants to stay and he is a very useful player.
- peesinwind

If Giroux has a 70 point season which is possible, he's taking a discount?

How many times have we heard Fletcher say this off season that defense is a team stat, not an individual one. Its clueless to look at possession metrics for 1 player who has played for a laughing stock of a team for his entire career and say he is not a good player. PT21, I will bet you MJL's house that RR's possession metrics are dramatically better this year!
- jd250

I want to jump in on this....

I will bet MJL's car that RR's possession metrics are dramatically better this year!


Take the bet!

That chart was play against "elite competition," not TOI overall.

I mean, all I did was say so, in my blurb, and in the chart. Of course you would miss it.

I don't particularly want to argue with guys like you, whose logic largely consists of "this is the way I see it and it is correct because this is the way I see it," but for others a little less dogmatic and little more keen-sighted, the entire point of that chart was that while Risto has played the most against elite competition, others have not played as poorly as he did when they did so, not even close.

To answer why he has played more mins while playing poorly: there are several explanations: Bad coaching. Line matchups. That the numbers don't reflect underlying play, and so on.


- PT21

Yes, but look at how you are coming to this conclusion? You are looking at 1 and only 1 metric, which is his possession metric. So that's it, any player that has under a 50% Corsi Sucks? That's how it works in your world? Sorry, this is just nonsense!

How many times have we heard Fletcher say this off season that defense is a team stat, not an individual one. Its clueless to look at possession metrics for 1 player who has played for a laughing stock of a team for his entire career and say he is not a good player. PT21, I will bet you MJL's house that RR's possession metrics are dramatically better this year!
- jd250

Is today taunt PT Sunday?

Let me ask you a relevant question, straight up, since I keep saying the same thing over and over to you.

You got an aunt? An uncle? A first cousin?

If Giroux has a 70 point season which is possible, he's taking a discount?
- MJL

Every player is different, but to think EVERY player just automatically gets a huge raise after every contract is silly.

Is Giroux looking for the same or more on his next contract? If yes then he better hope the market is going to pay him that because the Flyers can't afford it even if they wanted too.

Sorry this team is not built to contend for the CUP..they are built to be improved and to get in the playoffs, which they do every other year anyway. Myers 2 yrs ago was a guy you wouldnt have traded he had a great year. Hagg is a solid physical 3d pair guy, 13th and 2nd round pick who knows. . People keep saying they got rid of their 3 worst players from last year which just isnt true. Hart and Hayes were their 2 worst players last year why dont we give them away also. Fletch did what he was mandated to do and I like the locker room change which was long overdue.
- hfc355

Hart is a 22 year old kid that was under siege from the opening bell, and Hayes was hurt with an abdominal injury that required off season surgery. Yet in your mind these were the two worst players in the Flyers last year? Not a healthy Patrick with a -31 +/-? Or Myers who was completely lost for the entire season and scratched multiple times? Or Hagg who was healthy scratched by the worst defensive team in the league? Or Ghost who literally looked like a turn style on his own blue line night after night? Really?

The Flyers have several young players on their roster now: Hart, TK, Sanheim, Provorov, Allison, Frost, Farabee, York, Lindblom, NAK and Laczynski. They also have good young players banging at the door or will soon will be: Zamula, Foerster, O'Brien, Wisdom, Ratcliff, Sandin, Kase, Cates, Sandstrom etc. How many young prospects does a team need? And don't forget the Flyers just added another what, 6 prospects to their system. They have enough right now, the cupboards are overflowing! The Flyers need balance, they need veteran leaders, they need toughness, they need more skill, grit, and speed. I don't devalue picks, I look at the reality of where this team is now, and picks are not as valuable right now compared to getting players that can actually play and win games.

When Hextall joined the Flyers as GM, their cupboards were empty, so it made sense that Hextall values draft picks more. But now is a different time, and this org is in a different position.
- jd250

Right and what happens when good young players excel and need new contracts? We'll be in a cap crunch with veteran overpaid players who were obtained just to get better rather than moves made to actually become a top team in the league.

Bernier
Halak
Reimer
Brossoit
Dubnyk

So I know we're going to end up with Dubnyk but if I had my choice from this list, I want Brossoit.
- mochoson

Interesting pick, why do you like Brossoit? I don't know much about him.

Is today taunt PT Sunday?

Let me ask you a relevant question, straight up, since I keep saying the same thing over and over to you.

You got an aunt? An uncle? A first cousin?
- PT21

I will answer for him...no he has no family, he just woke up under a tree one day and became a Flyer fan.

https://youtu.be/np_VIVPw-d8
- Peter Richards

I wouldn’t call that getting destroyed.

Yes, but look at how you are coming to this conclusion? You are looking at 1 and only 1 metric, which is his possession metric. So that's it, any player that has under a 50% Corsi Sucks? That's how it works in your world? Sorry, this is just nonsense!
- jd250

Another thing that he is not understanding in addition to relative stats being one of the worst analytics out there, relatively useless. The stats for quality of competition are also extremely poor. Neither does a good job.

Every player is different, but to think EVERY player just automatically gets a huge raise after every contract is silly.

Is Giroux looking for the same or more on his next contract? If yes then he better hope the market is going to pay him that because the Flyers can't afford it even if they wanted too.
- Glak18

I don't believe that Giroux will command the same cap hit on his next deal but I also don't think he's going to take a discount to the level that others are thinking about and what has been posted.

Another thing that he is not understanding in addition to relative stats being one of the worst analytics out there, relatively useless. The stats for quality of competition are also extremely poor. Neither does a good job.
- MJL

I swear this conversation started out way differently in the beginning, did you do your magic flip floppity maneuver again?