Right. A hole is a hole. So while RH defenseman are no doubt a bigger development hole than Center has been, there was still a hole.
- MJL

In hindsight it is very clear.

Why I don’t mind Tarasenko for 2 years. Why I want them to keep drafting and developing. I think you can do both with the current make up of the franchise. I don’t want them to try and fix it all this season. I think that would signal a sacrifice that would have long term effects. Now that they have Ellis I don’t want to overpay for another D. If it is a younger D and at a decent price that is fine. Jake out and something similar in, ok. Honestly next year is the year to move jake, I think he has a real good season coming up
- wcorvette

I agree with Meltzer about Voracek. Not a perfect player but definitely a top playmaking wing. Really he has been in a similar situation to Giroux about not having the shooter and depth to have more team success. Not to mention the team defense as well. Maybe that is part of the reason I was livid toward the end of this past season when Voracek and Giroux were on the same line. TK, Farabee and Allison are all plus shooters. Water under the bridge now, but I would hate to ever see that again.

I hear that.

We can agree the lead up to our cup winning team (whenever that is) will be very much open to interpretation.
- DrMidnite

We can certainly agree about that. The proof of that is the spirited debate we wage here all the time.

because eventually you gotta say this recipe keeps turning out like dogpoop and (frank) it throw some lemongrass in there. definition of insanity. it's been 10 years. what evidence do you have its gonna be better WITH him?
- black_francis

Ha ha. Couldn't lemongrass make it worse? And are those the only 2 choices? Can some thought accompany the change of recipe?

I am for the Tarasenko trade for the exact same reasons Stepford Sam is against it. We both see high potential it could be worse for regular season possibilities, for a variety of reasons, the largest of which is the shoulder. I am for it because I want the team to crash and burn, and because of the extra year off.

Having said that, the pp, with a legit shot coming off the right half-wall, and with Ellis, should be improved.

- THE BLACK HAND

well done, sir.

[quote=bmeltzer]

I will preface this by saying I’m not in the locker room to see the day to day interactions he has with the younger players and coaching staff and I only have a fans view point by watching the games, but my issue with Jake is him being inconsistent and not back checking, taking longer shifts, trying risky plays at inappropriate time and places on the ice are all bad examples for the younger players.

If he is a good example of playing the right way and mentoring the younger players, TK, Oskar, Joel etc, then I stand corrected but to some of us fans it doesn’t look to be the case. If he stays with the Flyers I hope I’m wrong and your right

This is a pretty dumb thing to post. All I care about is getting the Flyers back to being a real contender so they can have a real chance to win a cup. How can anyone who actually reads my posts not see this? I was on the forefront of posting this team was not good and would miss the playoffs last season, because I wanted Fletcher to act so the Flyers could contend sooner. We just disagree on how to get there. You believe the Flyers should clean house, tank, and get as many top 5 draft picks to build a contender. However, I believe the Flyers can make some smart moves this year and next and assemble a real contending team much quicker.
- jd250

i see it, you are like the 80% of us that just want them to start winning again

That's part of the problem, and I am not being snide.

The problems you mention: is there any team that wouldn't benefit from adding more speed, grit, getting pucks to the net etc? Those are all valuable traits, and in as much as no team is perfect, they would all benefit from such traits. That's what I meant by cliches, though upon reflection that was too harsh.
- PT21

Yes any team would benefit from speed, toughness and players that shoot the puck. And a lot of teams have this already. Unfortunately this Flyers does not, and that is CFs job to fix this off season. Now since you got upset that I didn't understand your A and B scenarios, let me address them here:

Period A:

Do you realistically expect, based on what you saw last season that in period A Flyers have a shot at winning? To remind you, we have a very young goalie who couldn't handle a difficult regular season let alone a post-season, a winger who regressed mightily, a captain who is a 2nd line player playing as a first line winger because there are no better options, a streaky sniper, a 1st pair D who had a very unimpressive season and said he is satisfied, a promising but undersized winger who loses board battles, a 2nd pairing D who has significant physical compete issues, and another winger just recovering from cancer. There is not a legit player who will scare anyone in the playoffs as of now, who has the game breaking kind of skill a Barzal/Heiskanen/Makar/Hedman/even Suzuki possess. Nor is anyone on track to become so in the next 3 years, for there are too many variables to all jell at the same time so quickly

I don't agree with your evaluation of last season, plain and simple. True the Flyers had a down year and its true there were a lot of players that, even coming into the season, I thought were not part of the solution on this team. But G tried his butt off last year for the most part, as did several other players like Provorov. Hart was impacted by Covid and the isolation, he is a young kid and that happens. I have full confidence that he will rebound. As far as your last statement I bolded, that is just nonsense. You apparently are not paying attention to the players in the Flyers system to make a statement like this. Foerster, Allison, York all showed great signs and Frost just had an unfortunate injury. Its very true that the Flyers need to fill several holes as I outlined earlier, but I don't think they are far away as you state here.

Period B:

Now, assume some young players do develop into stars, which is best case scenario. Bee, Foerster, TK, and maybe Provy moves into Noriss conversation. Even than, they would still have Couturier at 31, Hayes 32, Ellis 33 to start period B. They are together 25% of cap. They are not shot, but they are surely not improved, and probably in decline, however slight. No team has ever won with this sort of profile.

In these 6 years years btw, because of good but not great personnel, we pick late. Chances of picking scary players who can immediately contribute to change dynamic above is low. (not zero, but low).

Now, you give me a path/plan, in this terrain, of Flyers winning that is not based on irrational, odds-defying hope.

Here we go again, back to where we are picking in the draft. Its a flawed argument on your part that I and MJL have disproved countless times now. You need to get over this idea that if you pick in the 20s in the 1st round your are doomed and will never get a good player. Yet G was drafted 23rd, so was Pastrnak and TK, and I am sure countless others if I felt like researching it. Again you can find players all over the place in the draft, if you know how to pick players and develop them. You don't need scary players to win, you need very good to great players to win, and too many teams that have won the Cup have drafted these types of players all over the place!

I am actually extremely excited about the next week or so!

Come on people, be positive for the next couple days at least.

There is plenty of time to crash back to reality if things really do go south.

If we really are going to be bad? Right now is about as good as it gets.

Why I don’t mind Tarasenko for 2 years. Why I want them to keep drafting and developing. I think you can do both with the current make up of the franchise. I don’t want them to try and fix it all this season. I think that would signal a sacrifice that would have long term effects. Now that they have Ellis I don’t want to overpay for another D. If it is a younger D and at a decent price that is fine. Jake out and something similar in, ok. Honestly next year is the year to move jake, I think he has a real good season coming up
- wcorvette

My point is that you can do both but the timing of when you do something is most important. You want to swap Voracek for Tarasenko. There's risk but that's not giving up the future. When you start giving up the future for older players before you're there as a team is when it really gets risky. You never get there and hurt your actual chances of actually getting there.

Ha ha. Couldn't lemongrass make it worse? And are those the only 2 choices? Can some thought accompany the change of recipe?

I am for the Tarasenko trade for the exact same reasons Stepford Sam is against it. We both see high potential it could be worse for regular season possibilities, for a variety of reasons, the largest of which is the shoulder. I am for it because I want the team to crash and burn, and because of the extra year off.

Having said that, the pp, with a legit shot coming off the right half-wall, and with Ellis, should be improved.
- PT21

I've come to learn that it is impossible for you to debate with either one person or a group without insulting them. With subtlety or with out.

I've come to learn that it is impossible for you to debate with either one person or a group without insulting them. With subtlety or with out.
- MJL

i dont even understand half the stuff he is talking.lol. I usually dont read his posts because of that.

I am actually extremely excited about the next week or so!

Come on people, be positive for the next couple days at least.

There is plenty of time to crash back to reality if things really do go south.

If we really are going to be bad? Right now is about as good as it gets.
- DrMidnite

I’m with ya….big week ahead. I’m hoping for a couple moves that help us. It’s a fun time. I always enjoy the week of the draft….the ED could really lead to some exciting changes. Then there’s free agency….considering the current state of the team, it is going to be some good theatre….

My point is that you can do both but the timing of when you do something is most important. You want to swap Voracek for Tarasenko. There's risk but that's not giving up the future. When you start giving up the future for older players before you're there as a team is when it really gets risky. You never get there and hurt your actual chances of actually getting there.
- MJL

The deal that has been rumored would be the only deal I would be ok with Tarasenko. Otherwise hard pass. And for the record, I really like Jake, but this core needs a shake up, imho.

https://twitter.com/sport.../1417119031274901504?s=21

This mock has the Kraken taking JVR due to his shorter term. This team doesn’t look competitive the 1st year.

Sooo guess no one caught the miro contract he just signed. That’s how it’s done. Once you identify the young core you lock them up. He’s turning 22 Sunday and signed 8 year deal coming off elc. That’s how it’s done folks. He gets his big deal and stars won’t be overpaying for ANY years of that deal. 8 years of certainty with core piece. Nice and young. No waiting until they are 26-27 and worrying when they’re 32-33-34 years old how bad the contract hampers them. In 4-5 years his deal is gonna be a steal

Sooo guess no one caught the miro contract he just signed. That’s how it’s done. Once you identify the young core you lock them up. He’s turning 22 Sunday and signed 8 year deal coming off elc. That’s how it’s done folks. He gets his big deal and stars won’t be overpaying for ANY years of that deal. 8 years of certainty with core piece. Nice and young. No waiting until they are 26-27 and worrying when they’re 32-33-34 years old how bad the contract hampers them. In 4-5 years his deal is gonna be a steal
- Stayin alive

So when miro turns 30 does he not get another big contract if he is a perennial norris dman at the end of his contract?

So when miro turns 30 does he not get another big contract if he is a perennial norris dman at the end of his contract?
- Richieattack18

no. he will be dead.

no. he will be dead.
- black_francis

As opposed to Stayin alive.

So when miro turns 30 does he not get another big contract if he is a perennial norris dman at the end of his contract?
- Richieattack18

He may get big $ possibly but not term. And he won’t be holding out for it or looking to move on because he needs to get that career deal. He will have been paid already. He may love Dallas and be fine with something like 4 year deal. Which still plays into stars hands

He may get big $ possibly but not term. And he won’t be holding out for it or looking to move on because he needs to get that career deal. He will have been paid already. He may love Dallas and be fine with something like 4 year deal. Which still plays into stars hands
- Stayin alive

Also if he’s declining and or wants too much $ stars can walk if they’d like.

https://twitter.com/sportsnet/status/1417119031274901504?s=21

This mock has the Kraken taking JVR due to his shorter term. This team doesn’t look competitive the 1st year.
- Minnyhock

Did Vegas' 1st-year team look that competitive on paper just based on their expansion selections? Not really. Neal, Perron and MAF were the only real "stars".

A third of their selections never suited up a single game for them. Many others were gone after just a year or two. I suspect Seattle will be picking a bunch of guys that they want to flip as well, instead of solely focusing on getting the best players available. They gotta build out their asset base after all.

Did Vegas' 1st-year team look that competitive on paper just based on their expansion selections? Not really. Neal, Perron and MAF were the only real "stars".

A third of their selections never suited up a single game for them. Many others were gone after just a year or two. I suspect Seattle will be picking a bunch of guys that they want to flip as well, instead of solely focusing on getting the best players available. They gotta build out their asset base after all.
- Tomahawk

I think they picked Marchessault from FLA and I know they got Tuch from the Wild too.
Can’t remember if they had Theodore off the bat and think Reilly Smith from DAL. They had more talent if they had all those guys right away.

I think they picked Marchessault from FLA and I know they got Tuch from the Wild too.
Can’t remember if they had Theodore off the bat and think Reilly Smith from DAL. They had more talent if they had all those guys right away.
- Minnyhock

Marchessault wasn't exactly a household name at the time.

Tuch, Theodore and Smith were all trades. I don't think many Seattle mock drafts are actually simulating side deals.

Marchessault wasn't exactly a household name at the time.

Tuch, Theodore and Smith were all trades. I don't think many Seattle mock drafts are actually simulating side deals.
- Tomahawk

The count down is on? ED then draft....who do you want traded? Besides Couts and Jake lol