The Pens board, the sky is still falling, they are sure the window is closed.
- wcorvette

I mean it is haha

My plan has been stated several times. The Flyers need to get faster, add more shoot first players, and become much tougher to play against.You do this by improving the players on the team, not really any other way to do it. That comes from a combination of smart hockey trades (like the one CF pulled off on Saturday), smart FA signings and good drafting and developing.

CF has done a good job in these areas (I'll give him a pass on signing Hayes since his hand was forced given the NoPa situation), and he must continue to do so if this team is to become a real contender.
- jd250

These are cliches. That is true for every team. They remind me of Bill Walton's commentary from the 1990s. "All (insert team name) needs is a basket!"

Now, lets be specific and break up the Flyers situation in 2 parts:

A. 21-24 (3 seasons)
B. 25-27 (3 seasons)

Period A:

Do you realistically expect, based on what you saw last season that in period A Flyers have a shot at winning? To remind you, we have a very young goalie who couldn't handle a difficult regular season let alone a post-season, a winger who regressed mightily, a captain who is a 2nd line player playing as a first line winger because there are no better options, a streaky sniper, a 1st pair D who had a very unimpressive season and said he is satisfied, a promising but undersized winger who loses board battles, a 2nd pairing D who has significant physical compete issues, and another winger just recovering from cancer. There is not a legit player who will scare anyone in the playoffs as of now, who has the game breaking kind of skill a Barzal/Heiskanen/Makar/Hedman/even Suzuki possess. Nor is anyone on track to become so in the next 3 years, for there are too many variables to all jell at the same time so quickly

Period B:

Now, assume some young players do develop into stars, which is best case scenario. Bee, Foerster, TK, and maybe Provy moves into Noriss conversation. Even than, they would still have Couturier at 31, Hayes 32, Ellis 33 to start period B. They are together 25% of cap. They are not shot, but they are surely not improved, and probably in decline, however slight. No team has ever won with this sort of profile.

In these 6 years years btw, because of good but not great personnel, we pick late. Chances of picking scary players who can immediately contribute to change dynamic above is low. (not zero, but low).

Now, you give me a path/plan, in this terrain, of Flyers winning that is not based on irrational, odds-defying hope.

So being a top team in the NHL for a full decade is not the right way to build a team? Three finals appearances and one cup. If resigning Coots gives the Flyers that I am all in.
- mickel25

The cup happened before those signings, my man.

The Pens board, the sky is still falling, they are sure the window is closed.
- wcorvette

It’s cool. Hextall will have them back in it by 2042.

The cup happened before those signings, my man.
- PT21

Ok so slightly less than a decade of being a top contending team with two trips to the finals. I would be fine with two chances to play for the cup over the next decade.

Fair enough (though I personally find that facet to be vastly overrated, because half the time, the other coach can avoid that match up if he really wants).

But my point was though that the Couts contract and team situation (not Couts the player) has a closer resemblance to the Krejci contract and Krejci team situation.

It's all moot. Hopefully, they sign Tarasenko, and Savard and Couts. You guys are happy.

Then, Savard knocks out Couts in practice a la Gudas. Tarasenko throws out his shoulder pitching ball to his kid a la Desjardin. And Wilson knocks out Ellis a la Corey Perry. We skid off the rails and pick Shane Wright.

Then I am happy too.
- PT21

I’d be more interested in some different upgrades….but Savard and Tarasenko would be fine in my eyes….frankly I’d like some younger upgrades but that might be tough. The more i think about the Ellis deal the more I like it. Sure we can go negative on what bad poop might happen, but adding some solid vets or switching up the mix at least shows the organization realizes the growth of this team will have to be a mix of outside help and rom within and player development.

How about DeAngelo? Be funny to see him go off on Price after a soft goal.
- Minnyhock

Price has half a foot and 40 lbs on Tony Dbag... pretty sure he'd cave his face in.

Tarasenko has made his money and also won a cup. I'd be taking a real long look at his motivation along with his health before making that deal.

I'd love to see a contingency in a trade for games played if a deal is made though...

Ok so slightly less than a decade of being a top contending team with two trips to the finals. I would be fine with two chances to play for the cup over the next decade.
- mickel25

Dude, they did not win the cup. You cannot use part of their past (as when they entered the finals and "had a chance") and not use the rest of it (when "that chance" dropped to 0).

There was a reason the Bills were mocked as Buffalo Boy I Love Losing Superbowls after the 1990s were over. Nobody said - gee, they were great, because they had 4 chances to lift the Lombardi!

I could see that happening, but with the sheer number of available players from all teams, there's a load of variables that would have to all line up. And even if they did, are there other players available that we'd rather have? Probably. In consideration of that, I'd say the probability is exceptionally low.
- Letterkenney

What about after the draft :

Tarasenko, kaapo Kahkonen (G) to Philly for Vorecek and #13?

My point is maybe the Flyers can poach an asset of need from Seattle for their 1rst…. This could e a wild 5 days.

I’d be more interested in some different upgrades….but Savard and Tarasenko would be fine in my eyes….frankly I’d like some younger upgrades but that might be tough. The more i think about the Ellis deal the more I like it. Sure we can go negative on what bad poop might happen, but adding some solid vets or switching up the mix at least shows the organization realizes the growth of this team will have to be a mix of outside help and rom within and player development.
- landros 2

Do you know any organization anywhere that just gambles by just "switching up" the mix of personnel without any rhyme or reason that switch will improve things? Any company of any sort?

I know of only 2 places where this metaphor is used. Sports and politics. And the results are usually regretted.

Dude, they did not win the cup. You cannot use part of their past (as when they entered the finals and "had a chance") and not use the rest of it (when "that chance" dropped to 0).

There was a reason the Bills were mocked as Buffalo Boy I Love Losing Superbowls after the 1990s were over. Nobody said - gee, they were great, because they had 4 chances to lift the Lombardi!
- PT21

Funny story….my 4 years in university near Buffalo corresponded with those 4 Super Bowls…went to a few SB parties in Buffalo …boy they ended in misery every year.

No PT21 gave you a comparison which was based not on style of play but position, the commitments already made by team at the time, and age. In all of those, the forthcoming Couts contract bears a closer resemblance to the contract Krejci got.

It should be really moot, since whether we use Bergeron or Krejci, neither won a cup after they were awarded the contract, but I am not sure you actually care about winning the cup. I have seen absolutely nothing from your posts that suggest any sort of a plan towards that end, so you probably don't.

I am sorry if this was too precise for you.
- PT21

The comparison is about how the player performed into his 30's and looking at the risk of re-signing Couturier to a long term deal. Bergeron signed his deal when he was 28, Krejci when he was 29. Not much of a difference. Your point about winning a cup is not a good one. It's not about winning the cup. It's about was the player good enough well into his contract to warrant the signing. About how the player held up through the contract. Winning the Cup is about the entire team and not just one player.
Your post wasn't precise, it was off base.

well, your belief would be wrong.

Style of play and usage of course Bergeron is much more similar. But the point is this though: how did it work out for that team with giving 2 late twenties forwards long contracts? They were far more complete a team than we are now. Even with that, did they win again after those 2 contracts?
- PT21

It's worked out very well actually. Boston has been in the mix and been a true contender every season since.

Dude, they did not win the cup. You cannot use part of their past (as when they entered the finals and "had a chance") and not use the rest of it (when "that chance" dropped to 0).

There was a reason the Bills were mocked as Buffalo Boy I Love Losing Superbowls after the 1990s were over. Nobody said - gee, they were great, because they had 4 chances to lift the Lombardi!
- PT21

So you do not want a team that is consistently a top team for a decade with multiple chances to win the cup?

Funny story….my 4 years in university near Buffalo corresponded with those 4 Super Bowls…went to a few SB parties in Buffalo …boy they ended in misery every year.
- landros 2

Is it common for Canadians to come to the States for undergrad? Given how much more expensive it is here for them, I don't usually find many Canadians in undergrad.

That's one way of looking at it. The other is they hung on to some aging superstars too long. Their perpetual contention meant they picked too late. Their salary cap commitments meant they never were able to round off a top heavy, aging team.
- PT21

There is no evidence that they hung onto either player too long. Both the Bergeron and Krejci deals were outstanding deals. Model deals. Take a look at the Bruins trade history and see what they added for playoff runs.

Do you know any organization anywhere that just gambles by just "switching up" the mix of personnel without any rhyme or reason that switch will improve things? Any company of any sort?

I know of only 2 places where this metaphor is used. Sports and politics. And the results are usually regretted.
- PT21

What’s the gamble when the alternative is another repeat of last year.? They need to address the problem area’s….and by changing some of the mix they are trying to do that….these moves will hardly be made for know ryme or reason. The argument I will never understand from some of the hard core Flyer fans around here….we already no what the current mix was capable of…or not capable of. Take the Ellis trade….the Flyers did not part with their best young assets….some decent young assets, but not their best…..

So you do not want a team that is consistently a top team for a decade with multiple chances to win the cup?
- mickel25

Well, given that those multiple chances proved not to come true, I would look at what went wrong, and avoid repeating the mistakes they made. I would rather base my model on those who didn't actually fail.

Would you offer up Andy Reid's Eagles of the 2000s as a model for a football franchise? 3 conference games, 1 superbowl appearance....

These are cliches. That is true for every team. They remind me of Bill Walton's commentary from the 1990s. "All (insert team name) needs is a basket!"

Now, lets be specific and break up the Flyers situation in 2 parts:
.
- PT21

They aren't cliches. They're key areas of play that in his opinion, he has identified where the Flyers need to improve on. The biggest fallacy of hockeybuzz is expecting fans to be any more specific that that. To play fantasy hockey and suggest specific player moves. Nobody has that information to be accurate enought. Fun to discuss but fantasy hockey

Speaking of fantasy, that is the rest of your post. It's not specific at all. It's fantasy.

What’s the gamble when the alternative is another repeat of last year.? They need to address the problem area’s….and by changing some of the mix they are trying to do that….these moves will hardly be made for know ryme or reason. The argument I will never understand from some of the hard core Flyer fans around here….we already no what the current mix was capable of…or not capable of. Take the Ellis trade….the Flyers did not part with their best young assets….some decent young assets, but not their best…..
- landros 2

What I find that you and Hextall271 saying though seems essentially: roll the die, shake it up.

But there is no reason why a shake-up in and of itself would improve things, is there?

Is it common for Canadians to come to the States for undergrad? Given how much more expensive it is here for them, I don't usually find many Canadians in undergrad.
- PT21

My parents called me a professional student…..lol….and at the end no medical degree or law degree….but in the end it’s all worked out.

Dude, they did not win the cup. You cannot use part of their past (as when they entered the finals and "had a chance") and not use the rest of it (when "that chance" dropped to 0).


- PT21

How ironic. You continually want to use teams that win the cup using a certain method and philosophy of team building. Yet you ignore the teams who used the same methods and didn't win the cup. You ignore the teams with players drafted in the top 5 who can't come close to actually competing for a Cup. Apply the same standard to yourself that you apply to others.

Do you know any organization anywhere that just gambles by just "switching up" the mix of personnel without any rhyme or reason that switch will improve things? Any company of any sort?

I know of only 2 places where this metaphor is used. Sports and politics. And the results are usually regretted.
- PT21

Not having any rhyme or reason is a condition that you have applied to it. One area that JD250 has repeatedly stated he wanted to change was having more shoot first players and less playmakers to change the mix of the team. How can you say there is no rhyme or reason to that change? You are inventing things that aren't there.

My parents called me a professional student…..lol….and at the end no medical degree or law degree….but in the end it’s all worked out.
- landros 2

I can relate. I dropped out of grad school, returned, dropped out, returned.

I was once introduced by my uncle:

"This is my nephew PT. He went to school in Philadelphia ... and he went to school in Philadelphia ... and he went to school in Philadelphia..."