I thought you said you live in Boston and watch a lot of Boston games.

Krejci was 1C throughout the several years before his contract in 2015-16, which is of course the basis of comparison (I explicitly said 29 was his age). He was 1c during the cup run, when they swept us in 2011, and when he was knocked out during our 0-3 comeback the year before and all the span in between. He continued being so after his contract (1C) with Lucic on his wing till the latter left.

In this period of time, Bergeron played mostly 2C. Marchand initially on 3rd line, then 2nd as Bergeron wing at the time Krejci got his contract. There was enormous chemistry between Bergeron and Marchand. With Pasta joining them and Krejci essentially being wingless, so to speak, the interchange of position was a natural evolution.

This is all from my memory, but I am pretty sure most of it is correct. I am sure MJL will immediately frantically search and find 5 game periods when this was not true, as is his wont. but the point will stand in general. :D

Now about the player comparison:

Krejci has averaged about a 64 point season in the 7 years before his contract and 6 years since. Couturier is averaging about 74 since taking over 1C.

In post season, Krejci is averaging 0.8 points a game per season. In the same span, Couturier averaged about 0.85 ppg.

So, advantage Couts, but not as much as you would think.
- PT21

I am and do watch a lot of Bruins games. I'm not sure I remember, but I believe Bergeron surpassed Krejci in the 2012 season, but both Bergeron and Krejci played similar minutes for a lot of those years. Regardless, I think Bergeron is a much better comparison for Couturier than Krejci because Bergeron for most of his early career was taking more defensive FOs than offensive FOs, which is very comparable to Couturier, who even last season was about 50/50 in zone starts. Krejci has predominantly taken offensive FOs for his entire career. What is interesting is since Bergeron turned 30 and got on a consistent line with Pastrnak and Marchand has taken more and more offensive zone FOs.

No PT21 gave you a comparison which was based not on style of play but position, the commitments already made by team at the time, and age. In all of those, the forthcoming Couts contract bears a closer resemblance to the contract Krejci got.

It should be really moot, since whether we use Bergeron or Krejci, neither won a cup after they were awarded the contract, but I am not sure you actually care about winning the cup. I have seen absolutely nothing from your posts that suggest any sort of a plan towards that end, so you probably don't.

I am sorry if this was too precise for you.
- PT21

This is a pretty dumb thing to post. All I care about is getting the Flyers back to being a real contender so they can have a real chance to win a cup. How can anyone who actually reads my posts not see this? I was on the forefront of posting this team was not good and would miss the playoffs last season, because I wanted Fletcher to act so the Flyers could contend sooner. We just disagree on how to get there. You believe the Flyers should clean house, tank, and get as many top 5 draft picks to build a contender. However, I believe the Flyers can make some smart moves this year and next and assemble a real contending team much quicker.

I am and do watch a lot of Bruins games. I'm not sure I remember, but I believe Bergeron surpassed Krejci in the 2012 season, but both Bergeron and Krejci played similar minutes for a lot of those years. Regardless, I think Bergeron is a much better comparison for Couturier than Krejci because Bergeron for most of his early career was taking more defensive FOs than offensive FOs, which is very comparable to Couturier, who even last season was about 50/50 in zone starts. Krejci has predominantly taken offensive FOs for his entire career. What is interesting is since Bergeron turned 30 and got on a consistent line with Pastrnak and Marchand has taken more and more offensive zone FOs.
- jd250

well, your belief would be wrong.

Style of play and usage of course Bergeron is much more similar. But the point is this though: how did it work out for that team with giving 2 late twenties forwards long contracts? They were far more complete a team than we are now. Even with that, did they win again after those 2 contracts?

This is a pretty dumb thing to post. All I care about is getting the Flyers back to being a real contender so they can have a real chance to win a cup. How can anyone who actually reads my posts not see this? I was on the forefront of posting this team was not good and would miss the playoffs last season, because I wanted Fletcher to act so the Flyers could contend sooner. We just disagree on how to get there. You believe the Flyers should clean house, tank, and get as many top 5 draft picks to build a contender. However, I believe the Flyers can make some smart moves this year and next and assemble a real contending team much quicker.
- jd250

I never said you didn't care. Of course you do. I said, I didn't see any evidence of a plan. All I see is an implicit belief that player by player improvements will lead to a cup.

well, your belief would be wrong.

Style of play and usage of course Bergeron is much more similar. But the point is this though: how did it work out for that team with giving 2 late twenties forwards long contracts? They were far more complete a team than we are now. Even with that, did they win again after those 2 contracts?
- PT21

It’s two totally different teams, everyone trying to use comparisons is just making something out of nothing . There is risk in every contract.

A little bird told me Hagg is the one getting chosen. If it doesn’t happen that bird is a liar.

The Pens board, the sky is still falling, they are sure the window is closed.

I thought you said you live in Boston and watch a lot of Boston games.

Krejci was 1C throughout the several years before his contract in 2015-16, which is of course the basis of comparison (I explicitly said 29 was his age). He was 1c during the cup run, when they swept us in 2011, and when he was knocked out during our 0-3 comeback the year before and all the span in between. He continued being so after his contract (1C) with Lucic on his wing till the latter left.

In this period of time, Bergeron played mostly 2C. Marchand initially on 3rd line, then 2nd as Bergeron wing at the time Krejci got his contract. There was enormous chemistry between Bergeron and Marchand. With Pasta joining them and Krejci essentially being wingless, so to speak, the interchange of position was a natural evolution.

This is all from my memory, but I am pretty sure most of it is correct. I am sure MJL will immediately frantically search and find 5 game periods when this was not true, as is his wont. but the point will stand in general. :D

Now about the player comparison:

Krejci has averaged about a 64 point season in the 7 years before his contract and 6 years since. Couturier is averaging about 74 since taking over 1C.

In post season, Krejci is averaging 0.8 points a game per season. In the same span, Couturier averaged about 0.85 ppg.

So, advantage Couts, but not as much as you would think.
- PT21

To be fair though Krejci NEVER was expected to play against the other teams best players. He and Couturier are different players for sure. Bergeron from his early days played that role and grew into an offensive C to go along with his obvious defensive game. That’s the comparison with Coot’s….they have followed a similar career path as far as player attributes and strengths and growth…I think it’s a great comparison….unfortunately Bergeron is somewhat under paid but got the term he wanted…so that has to be considered when comparing.

If you had to guess, who’s the first captain of the Kraken.

I’m going Adam Henrique
- hereticpride

I’ll go JVR.

Man, people are really fired up about Ellis and Voracek. Can’t wait until they trade Jake and a 2nd for Tarasenko and people in here really get fired up.
- Flyers1218

If Tarasenko’s shoulder checked out…..I do it.

Connor Clifton unprotected by Boston. He'd look good in orange and black.
- backfire

Last time I checked, the Flyers weren't the team picking in the ED, so it's irrelevant unless he's a UFA.

[quote=bmeltzer]

Bill, once again you're letting facts get in the way of a good narrative.

If you had to guess, who’s the first captain of the Kraken.

I’m going Adam Henrique
- hereticpride

Justin Braun

A lot of posts are made without knowing who Seattle will take. I would wait until it all plays out. Lots of moves to be made.

well, your belief would be wrong.

Style of play and usage of course Bergeron is much more similar. But the point is this though: how did it work out for that team with giving 2 late twenties forwards long contracts? They were far more complete a team than we are now. Even with that, did they win again after those 2 contracts?
- PT21

It worked out very well for Boston after they signed Bergeron and Krejci, they have been one of the best teams in the league for the past several years. What killed the Bruins was not that they signed Bergeron and Krejci, it was that they absolutely blew it in the 2015 draft where they had 3 straight first round picks and were not ready to pick the best players available (not my words, Cam Neely's words). If the Bruins drafted Barzal, Connor and Chabot like they were supposed to, the would have multiple cups right now.

Last time I checked, the Flyers weren't the team picking in the ED, so it's irrelevant unless he's a UFA.
- Letterkenney

Seattle could select and trade to an interested party for other assets.

That’s makes sense. There’s just something off there. What did St Louis handle so wrong in his eyes that he wants out for? That’s what I want to know.
- hereticpride

I'd be giving that trade the stink eye, as well. Something does not seem right.

Seattle could select and trade to an interested party for other assets.
- backfire

And if the queen had balls, she'd be the king.

To be fair though Krejci NEVER was expected to play against the other teams best players. He and Couturier are different players for sure. Bergeron from his early days played that role and grew into an offensive C to go along with his obvious defensive game. That’s the comparison with Coot’s….they have followed a similar career path as far as player attributes and strengths and growth…I think it’s a great comparison….unfortunately Bergeron is somewhat under paid but got the term he wanted…so that has to be considered when comparing.
- landros 2

Fair enough (though I personally find that facet to be vastly overrated, because half the time, the other coach can avoid that match up if he really wants).

But my point was though that the Couts contract and team situation (not Couts the player) has a closer resemblance to the Krejci contract and Krejci team situation.

It's all moot. Hopefully, they sign Tarasenko, and Savard and Couts. You guys are happy.

Then, Savard knocks out Couts in practice a la Gudas. Tarasenko throws out his shoulder pitching ball to his kid a la Desjardin. And Wilson knocks out Ellis a la Corey Perry. We skid off the rails and pick Shane Wright.

Then I am happy too.

And if the queen had balls, she'd be the king.
- Letterkenney

i mean, Fletcher literally said in a press conference he's had conversations with Francis and is open to packaging a deal for available players in ED...

I never said you didn't care. Of course you do. I said, I didn't see any evidence of a plan. All I see is an implicit belief that player by player improvements will lead to a cup.
- PT21

My plan has been stated several times. The Flyers need to get faster, add more shoot first players, and become much tougher to play against. You do this by improving the players on the team, not really any other way to do it. That comes from a combination of smart hockey trades (like the one CF pulled off on Saturday), smart FA signings and good drafting and developing. CF has done a good job in these areas (I'll give him a pass on signing Hayes since his hand was forced given the NoPa situation), and he must continue to do so if this team is to become a real contender.

It worked out very well for Boston after they signed Bergeron and Krejci, they have been one of the best teams in the league for the past several years. What killed the Bruins was not that they signed Bergeron and Krejci, it was that they absolutely blew it in the 2015 draft where they had 3 straight first round picks and were not ready to pick the best players available (not my words, Cam Neely's words). If the Bruins drafted Barzal, Connor and Chabot like they were supposed to, the would have multiple cups right now.
- jd250

That's one way of looking at it. The other is they hung on to some aging superstars too long. Their perpetual contention meant they picked too late. Their salary cap commitments meant they never were able to round off a top heavy, aging team.

That's one way of looking at it. The other is they hung on to some aging superstars too long. Their perpetual contention meant they picked too late. Their salary cap commitments meant they never were able to round off a top heavy, aging team.
- PT21

So being a top team in the NHL for a full decade is not the right way to build a team? Three finals appearances and one cup. If resigning Coots gives the Flyers that I am all in.

i mean, Fletcher literally said in a press conference he's had conversations with Francis and is open to packaging a deal for available players in ED...
- black_francis

I could see that happening, but with the sheer number of available players from all teams, there's a load of variables that would have to all line up. And even if they did, are there other players available that we'd rather have? Probably. In consideration of that, I'd say the probability is exceptionally low.

If you had to guess, who’s the first captain of the Kraken.

I’m going Adam Henrique
- hereticpride

How about DeAngelo? Be funny to see him go off on Price after a soft goal.