The more emotionally invested one is in a certain team and the longer one watches a particular player, the more the tendency becomes to focus on that player's weaknesses rather than strengths. I would sat that the pros have outweighed the drawbacks with Voracek for most of his 10 years here. I also think a change might be best now for both sides.
- bmeltzer

Not looking at past 10 yrs looking at next 3. We all have seen his lazy play far too often

And that is without having a “sniper” on the team at any point. I am also fine with Voracek moving on.
- mickel25

You don’t move Vorecek for the sake of moving him. I would think Fletch would have a plan in place to replace what they are losing. I’m on board to move him with certain types of sweeteners, but would have to see how they would allocate Jakes salary towards other players, before in agreement.

The more emotionally invested one is in a certain team and the longer one watches a particular player, the more the tendency becomes to focus on that player's weaknesses rather than strengths. I would sat that the pros have outweighed the drawbacks with Voracek for most of his 10 years here. I also think a change might be best now for both sides.
- bmeltzer

Yes bill, if you look at it over a 10 year period I agree, but my view is the past few years; that is what I am referring to. Today, right now, Jake is a liability out there, and I believe sets a bad example for the younger kids. The Flyers definitely have to move on from Jake if they are going to move forward with the type of team CF and AV want to build here.

Pretty simple trade to evaluate. If Ellis can stay healthy I think the Flyers win this trade easily based on what they gave up. Patrick is no big loss and you could even argue that they are a better team by just getting him outta here based on his play last year. Myers regressed this past season and I thought that it really showed that he is suffering from a bout of low hockey IQ. Not sure you can correct that or not and he also seems to get dinged up everytime he throws a check. Now somehow figure out a way to get Jakey outta here and free up some more cap space, and we'll be cookin with gas!!

You don’t move Vorecek for the sake of moving him. I would think Fletch would have a plan in place to replace what they are losing. I’m on board to move him with certain types of sweeteners, but would have to see how they would allocate Jakes salary towards other players, before in agreement.
- landros 2

Agreed. However, I would not add a sweetener for Seattle to take him.

There is nothing about this trade that I don’t like. The team got significantly better without giving up any draft choices or parting with any top notch players.

In regards to Patrick, I just don’t see the drive necessary in him to take the next step in his career. I think he remains a 3C/4C guy for a few more years and by the time he’s 27-28, he’s probably out of the league. Plus there is still the risk of future migraine issues.

Myers is talented, but you can’t learn innate hockey sense and that is what is going to keep him as a 4/5 Dman for his NHL career.

Good work Chuck!

There is nothing about this trade that I don’t like. The team got significantly better without giving up any draft choices or parting with any top notch players.

In regards to Patrick, I just don’t see the drive necessary in him to take the next step in his career. I think he remains a 3C/4C guy for a few more years and by the time he’s 27-28, he’s probably out of the league. Plus there is still the risk of future migraine issues.

Myers is talented, but you can’t learn innate hockey sense and that is what is going to keep him as a 4/5 Dman for his NHL career.

Good work Chuck!
- BiggE

Agree with everything you wrote here, BiggE...my thoughts exactly.

Not sure how you think giving up on two young players w potential for a small older def has made you better but ok

Manson is signed for next season, so Anaheim isn't forced to move him right now (could see him as a deadline rental). Right now, David Savard (RH, RD, big frame, physical presence, 8th in NHL in blocked shots from 2017-18 through 2020-21) is the guy I'd target as a UFA.

Provorov- Ellis
Sanheim - Savard/Braun
York - Braun/Savard
Hägg as the No. 7
- bmeltzer

What are your thoughts on Jani Hakanpaa. I thought he really started to find his game in later part of the season and in the Hurricanes playoff run. Great size, a bit of a mean streak and still relatively young legs.

Not sure how you think giving up on two young players w potential for a small older def has made you better but ok
- mattstake

Haha what !

Voracek is 8th across the ENTIRE NHL in assists across his time in Philadelphia (Giroux is 2nd in the NHL in the same span). He's averaged 0.83 points per game. As long as the offense is spread out across a deep group, as was the case in 2019-20, that's fine.

Will say it again: The Flyers NHL-level issues for the majority of the past seven years stemmed from team-building decisions by the GM, not from failures by Giroux, Voracek or Couturier. They didn't have enough quality pieces around them, because the GM's focus (for understandable reasons) was on a farm system restock and asset collecting.

I'm fine with Voracek moving on. But he's done more good than bad in his time here.
- bmeltzer

Well said.

With Patrick and Myers you have to look at how hard will they to be replaced. I think Patrick you can find easier than Myers. How they both mature will change the difficulty level to replace. Today they is very low, making Ellis the clear winner in the trade

Manson is signed for next season, so Anaheim isn't forced to move him right now (could see him as a deadline rental). Right now, David Savard (RH, RD, big frame, physical presence, 8th in NHL in blocked shots from 2017-18 through 2020-21) is the guy I'd target as a UFA.

Provorov- Ellis
Sanheim - Savard/Braun
York - Braun/Savard
Hägg as the No. 7
- bmeltzer

Depends greatly on the money and term for Savard. It would be a solid move, but if term and money is much higher than it should be due to "demand" than it will have terrible effect down the road.

Not sure how you think giving up on two young players w potential for a small older def has made you better but ok
- mattstake

Flyers protect NAK, leave JVR available.
Seattle is going to either take Braun or Hagg now. No doubt about it.

I said yesterday and I will say today lets start by being realistic, they Flyers are going to a win now mode.

that said, I don't add sweeteners unless they are a lower end pick or late mid round and make sense. If your PLAN needs to move Ghost or JVR and it needs a late pick, then do it. I really think the should not but if there is a good plan, sure, you are already all in with the Ellis trade, pot committed. I hope CF is looking at 2 years, not trying to force it all this year. If it all falls in place, great but he still needs patience. Keep your first unless it gets you the asset you need in return. Best case that asset is in their prime. Keep as many of your picks as you can and keep the blue chips in the system. This is where the deep system pays off, you move two young players but you still have depth in the system.

I said this offseason would define CF, his first chance to reshape the team via FA and trades. He is not off to a bad start, it depends on what happens on the ice but on paper he won the trade.
- wcorvette

Chuck said he planned on making the moves by the second day of FA. I think he was saying that cap space would be filled by then. So the next week and a half is going to be fun to watch. He is not all in this year though.

He keeps saying thing like * it has to make sense for more then just a year or two. *

Think he has long term thoughts as well has making this team competitive next season. Which with the Ellis pick up he went a long way to making that happen.

What are your thoughts on Jani Hakanpaa. I thought he really started to find his game in later part of the season and in the Hurricanes playoff run. Great size, a bit of a mean streak and still relatively young legs.
- juiced

Glad you mentioned Hakanpää from Carolina. I know he is on my list for possible targets.

Wouldnt trade JV for Tarasenko because there appears to be attitude problems there, though maybe warranted,but I would do all I can to get JV off this team. Have seen enough of his lazy lackadasical play. Need to get him out of that locker room
- hfc355

You don't think JV has a slight attitude problem since he refused to play D?
That type is lackluster leadership is exactly why this team can't take the best step.
JV played very good defense and has much improved back checking in 19/20 and look at how the team did. I really thought JV had reached a new level to his game after waiting for so long but sadly it was short lived.
Then this past season was the laziest I have seen JV Play. To me, that is also an attitude problem. JV need to go. He is a good player but not at all what this soft team needs.
If nobody bites on taking JV then trade him for tank and hope for the best (if the doctors say his shoulder is still useable)
If it works then CF is a genius. If it doesn't work then we are out of a huge contract an entire year earlier.
Reward doesn't come without risk. I don't want JV here showing the younger kids that they don't need to play defense. It's a toxic trait.
Just my opinion

Yes bill, if you look at it over a 10 year period I agree, but my view is the past few years; that is what I am referring to. Today, right now, Jake is a liability out there, and I believe sets a bad example for the younger kids. The Flyers definitely have to move on from Jake if they are going to move forward with the type of team CF and AV want to build here.
- jd250

This is almost exactly what I just said, myself. I'm glad I am not alone in how I view JV. Watching other teams just skate hy him while Jake doesn't even so much as put his stick against the other teams stick. He just watched the other team skate by while he gives up on a play.
I don't want this type of attitude on this team. I don't care how many assists Jake puts up. His attitude is toxic, imo and it clearly wore off on younger players last season

You don't think JV has a slight attitude problem since he refused to play D?
That type is lackluster leadership is exactly why this team can't take the best step.
JV played very good defense and has much improved back checking in 19/20 and look at how the team did. I really thought JV had reached a new level to his game after waiting for so long but sadly it was short lived.
Then this past season was the laziest I have seen JV Play. To me, that is also an attitude problem. JV need to go. He is a good player but not at all what this soft team needs.
If nobody bites on taking JV then trade him for tank and hope for the best (if the doctors say his shoulder is still useable)
If it works then CF is a genius. If it doesn't work then we are out of a huge contract an entire year earlier.
Reward doesn't come without risk. I don't want JV here showing the younger kids that they don't need to play defense. It's a toxic trait.
Just my opinion
- Bob Habib

Ok...now why does St. Louis want Voracek?

Flyers protect NAK, leave JVR available.
Seattle is going to either take Braun or Hagg now. No doubt about it.
- PLindbergh31

With the Canadians exposing Price I feel like Seattle would be crazy not to take him. That contract however makes it much less likely they’re going to be willing to take a Jake or JVR. My gut feeling has been Hagg all along. I do think Ghost offers a skill set no other team is exposing but that contract doesn’t seem to be doing him any favors.

Let’s just pray the front office doesn’t do something dumb and try to get Seattle to trade us Price for Voracek, Hart +

Not sure how you think giving up on two young players w potential for a small older def has made you better but ok
- mattstake

It's okay if you don't understand hockey. We don't judge you

Ok...now why does St. Louis want Voracek?
- Glak18

Well tank wants out of there and do you see another team willing to offer a player with the caliber of JV?
If you put JV with some oire goal scorers he will look like a new man. He doesn't have that here. I'm honestly not too sure what St Louis has as far as goal scorers, but it has to be more than we have here.
St Louis looking in broken down Hank who wants out of there poor guy likes a horror check who doesn't miss many games and is in the top 10 in the league as far as Cisco over the past decade..
What better offer would they have than that?

With the Canadians exposing Price I feel like Seattle would be crazy not to take him. That contract however makes it much less likely they’re going to be willing to take a Jake or JVR. My gut feeling has been Hagg all along. I do think Ghost offers a skill set no other team is exposing but that contract doesn’t seem to be doing him any favors.

Let’s just pray the front office doesn’t do something dumb and try to get Seattle to trade us Price for Voracek, Hart +
- hereticpride

Price would still have a NMC in full effect after getting selected by Seattle, so Price would have to accept the trade to any team.

With the Canadians exposing Price I feel like Seattle would be crazy not to take him. That contract however makes it much less likely they’re going to be willing to take a Jake or JVR. My gut feeling has been Hagg all along. I do think Ghost offers a skill set no other team is exposing but that contract doesn’t seem to be doing him any favors.

Let’s just pray the front office doesn’t do something dumb and try to get Seattle to trade us Price for Voracek, Hart +
- hereticpride

Price is due an 11 million dollar signing bonus in September. I think that will deter Seattle from taking him.

I think Seattle just takes Braun or Hagg leaving the Flyers with no cap relief.