I would trade Jake and a 2nd or 3rd for Tarasenko.

I would love it even more if they took Ghost instead of Hagg.
- black_francis

Hagg is barely an NHL defenseman, he was drafted in the same year Morin was. He has ZERO upside! Francis is not stupid and is not going to waste his pick on a nothing player. Its JVR, mark it down!

If they had flyers talent they would’ve been. We don’t have a chara or Marchand or rask or krecji or pasta
- Stayin alive

7 years ago when Bergeron was 28, Marchand was less established than TK is now. He could barely crack 50 points 7 years ago. Marchand didnt truly blossom until 4-5 years ago. Pasta wasnt on the team back then either. So invalid excuse. The answer is, no chance in hell Boston would have traded Bergeron at 28 because he is about to be 30 years old in 2 years. Hell, 7 years later Bergeron is 35 and still a premier forward in the league. If we sign Coots to 7-8 years and he follows Bergeron's path, you absolutely do it, and not trade him for 3 question marks

I like younger players as well, but defenseman who know their place on the ice, can read plays, and pass wisely shouldn’t be compared to forwards who rely on their athleticism and sharpshooting. A defenseman can play well into their 30s and have a much higher length of success in their career.

Forwards aren’t exactly Ellis’ peer group.

7 years ago when Bergeron was 28, Marchand was less established than TK is now. He could barely crack 50 points 7 years ago. Marchand didnt truly blossom until 4-5 years ago. Pasta wasnt on the team back then either. So invalid excuse. The answer is, no chance in hell Boston would have traded Bergeron at 28 because he is about to be 30 years old in 2 years. Hell, 7 years later Bergeron is 35 and still a premier forward in the league. If we sign Coots to 7-8 years and he follows Bergeron's path, you absolutely do it, and not trade him for 3 question marks
- Richieattack18

Too many people on this forum just don't understand how good Couts is. He is absolutely on track to be as good as Bergeron, and you don't trade players like this under any circumstances. Just give Couts 2 steady wingers to play with for more than 10 games, and you will see that not only can he shut down the other team's best players, but he is a point a game player himself and one of the best faceoff and possession forwards in the game. Luckily Fletcher is showing he is much smarter than most on this forum who would jettison Couts for nothing but hope and crossed fingers. No thank you, I would rather watch good hockey players play hockey!

One additional comparison I want to make between Bergeron and Couturier. Bergeron has almost a 60% career FO% and Corsi which is just phenomenal, but he also takes 60% of his draws in the offensive zone. Couturier is 50/50 Ozone to Dzone starts, yet the past 3 seasons Couturier is right there statistically with Bergeron in Corsi and FO%. Anyone who thinks Couts is not worth the contract really needs to learn how to evaluate players!

7 years ago when Bergeron was 28, Marchand was less established than TK is now. He could barely crack 50 points 7 years ago. Marchand didnt truly blossom until 4-5 years ago. Pasta wasnt on the team back then either. So invalid excuse. The answer is, no chance in hell Boston would have traded Bergeron at 28 because he is about to be 30 years old in 2 years. Hell, 7 years later Bergeron is 35 and still a premier forward in the league. If we sign Coots to 7-8 years and he follows Bergeron's path, you absolutely do it, and not trade him for 3 question marks
- Richieattack18

Bergeron is a hall of fame player. Coots is in realm of Bergy I agree but not same player. Also how is Bergy gonna look at 37? Coots will be 30 not 28. That’s a big difference. It’s borderline signing that long deal at 28. At 30 if you give a 7-8 year deal to a player that has 11 years on his body he better be an elite player. A player worthy of hall of fame discussion. Do you see coots in either of these categories? I love when people compare coots to Bergy. It’s just wrong. Sorry coots is no Bergy. Bergy has that it factor that some players just have. It’s like briere come playoff time. Sure he was good regular season sometimes very good but playoff time it was like a whole new player. How many selkes for Bergy? Cup winner? Clutch player? Now coots…. And that’s not to knock coots. If we rid Jake in this stinko rumor and could ride out or rid Jvr and let g leave after next year fine sign coots 5/9 mil. Give him extra money less term. But going over 5 is just crazy. 5 years or less and rid g/Jake/Jvr over next year and I’m all in on coots 100%.

Andy Strickland of Bally Sports Midwest tweets that the team’s last offer was in the $5-6MM range on an eight-year term, but that Landeskog is looking for much more than that.

Could this actually be true? If so if I'm CF I go get Landeskog. I start with a package of TK and my 2021 1st round pick, and I sign Landeskog to a $8M x 8 year deal. This is too good a player to pass up if I am the Flyers.

Too many people on this forum just don't understand how good Couts is. He is absolutely on track to be as good as Bergeron, and you don't trade players like this under any circumstances. Just give Couts 2 steady wingers to play with for more than 10 games, and you will see that not only can he shut down the other team's best players, but he is a point a game player himself and one of the best faceoff and possession forwards in the game. Luckily Fletcher is showing he is much smarter than most on this forum who would jettison Couts for nothing but hope and crossed fingers. No thank you, I would rather watch good hockey players play hockey!

One additional comparison I want to make between Bergeron and Couturier. Bergeron has almost a 60% career FO% and Corsi which is just phenomenal, but he also takes 60% of his draws in the offensive zone. Couturier is 50/50 Ozone to Dzone starts, yet the past 3 seasons Couturier is right there statistically with Bergeron in Corsi and FO%. Anyone who thinks Couts is not worth the contract really needs to learn how to evaluate players!
- jd250

Serious question… you think coots is gonna maintain his play starting new contract at age 30 for 7-8 years?

Bergeron is a hall of fame player. Coots is in realm of Bergy I agree but not same player. Also how is Bergy gonna look at 37? Coots will be 30 not 28. That’s a big difference. It’s borderline signing that long deal at 28. At 30 if you give a 7-8 year deal to a player that has 11 years on his body he better be an elite player. A player worthy of hall of fame discussion. Do you see coots in either of these categories? I love when people compare coots to Bergy. It’s just wrong. Sorry coots is no Bergy. Bergy has that it factor that some players just have. It’s like briere come playoff time. Sure he was good regular season sometimes very good but playoff time it was like a whole new player. How many selkes for Bergy? Cup winner? Clutch player? Now coots…. And that’s not to knock coots. If we rid Jake in this stinko rumor and could ride out or rid Jvr and let g leave after next year fine sign coots 5/9 mil. Give him extra money less term. But going over 5 is just crazy. 5 years or less and rid g/Jake/Jvr over next year and I’m all in on coots 100%.
- Stayin alive

Look I love Bergeron as a player, and he is a class act of a person also. But let's calm it down here, Bergeron has won exactly 1 cup over 17 seasons in the league, and that cup in 2011 was only won by the Bruins because Tim Thomas had one of the best goalie playoff performances in the history of the sport, AND at the same time Roberto Luongo puked all over himself. Couts is comparable to Bergeron, maybe a tad below but a very slight tad below.

Serious question… you think coots is gonna maintain his play starting new contract at age 30 for 7-8 years?
- Stayin alive

You're not thinking of things the right way. No player maintains their play for the entire length of their contract. You are not paying them to do so. Most teams just use term to spread out the cap hit knowing full well that they are paying for the first 2/3s of the contract. This is what Bergeron has done since he turned 30 years old.
Gms G A Pts +/-
2015-16 30 BOS NHL 80 32 36 68 12
2016-17 31 BOS NHL 79 21 32 53 12
2017-18 32 BOS NHL 64 30 33 63 21
2018-19 33 BOS NHL 65 32 47 79 23
2019-20 34 BOS NHL 61 31 25 56 23
2020-21 35 BOS NHL 54 23 25 48 27

Why can't Couts give the Flyers at least this until he is 35 or 36? Then after that who cares because by then the Flyers will have multiple cups!

Could this actually be true? If so if I'm CF I go get Landeskog. I start with a package of TK and my 2021 1st round pick, and I sign Landeskog to a $8M x 8 year deal. This is too good a player to pass up if I am the Flyers.
- jd250

Wow. Just wow. You really value him that much. Give up a tk&1st
Then sign 28 LW 8 years /8per?

I mean maybe and it’s a hard maybe if he was 25. At 28 ? No way. And I’m a big landy fan.

Can you ever predict it? The more I look at this deal the more I wonder why Nashville made it.
- MJL

Is Ellis damaged goods? Does Nashville know this? Does Philly know this? Was this move made to placate the Flyers fans? Make it appear they're improving the team by bringing in a known name? I'm not saying any of those are true but there is something odd about this trade as you mention.

As I said earlier, Nashville wouldn't just give away a supposed star #1 RHD for Patrick and Glass? Would they?

You're not thinking of things the right way. No player maintains their play for the entire length of their contract. You are not paying them to do so. Most teams just use term to spread out the cap hit knowing full well that they are paying for the first 2/3s of the contract. This is what Bergeron has done since he turned 30 years old.
Gms G A Pts +/-
2015-16 30 BOS NHL 80 32 36 68 12
2016-17 31 BOS NHL 79 21 32 53 12
2017-18 32 BOS NHL 64 30 33 63 21
2018-19 33 BOS NHL 65 32 47 79 23
2019-20 34 BOS NHL 61 31 25 56 23
2020-21 35 BOS NHL 54 23 25 48 27

Why can't Couts give the Flyers at least this until he is 35 or 36? Then after that who cares because by then the Flyers will have multiple cups!
- jd250

Omg lmao just in those 6 years Bergy with 4 30+ goal seasons and how many selkes? 4? 5?
And coots with 2 30 goal season in whole career and 1 token selke.

First off coots isn’t gonna produce like Bergy in his 30’s or be winning selkes like Bergy did. Bergy is a hall of famer no doubt.
Coots can be good even very good for next few seasons. But just because teams stupidly give out these long term deals doesn’t make it an excuse to do it. Almost every one of them ends bad and hampers the team in the future. Again I’d rather pay more $ for less term with coots.

The problem is we have to get rid of here it is again… the long term deals of g/Jake or Hayes. See how these long term deals (frank) the future and create huge problems? So it’s a repeating cycle. You know how to break the cycle? STOP SIGNING LONG TERM DEALS FOR NON GENERATIONAL PLAYERS. I mean I get gibing mcdavid long term. I get signing sid at 25 long term. And ov. Coots? G? Jake? It’s just dumb. I also get the gm doesn’t care because he’s trying to win now and damn the future won’t be his problem.
Think of it this way if you sign coots to this 7-8 deal like you say WHO are you losing in the future of these young kids? Who is it gonna be this time that we’d love to keep but can’t afford because coots type contract problem down the line? Or who can you NOT go out and trade for or sign in free agency because we’re cap strapped with aging player we stupidly signed 4-5-6-7 years ago knowing this problem would come up? Aren’t we in that position RIGHT now? G/Jake/Jvr deals why o why just set self up to deal with it again in 4-5 years ? Why? Because we added an Ellis type player? We aren’t close why screw the future? I mean hey if can somehow rid of g/Jake/Jvr/ghost all by end of this coming season maybe say (frank) it sign coots and use all that cap space and go all in with free agents. I mean hasn’t worked for last 46 years but it would be exciting I’ll admit that. But is that even feasible?

Look I love Bergeron as a player, and he is a class act of a person also. But let's calm it down here, Bergeron has won exactly 1 cup over 17 seasons in the league, and that cup in 2011 was only won by the Bruins because Tim Thomas had one of the best goalie playoff performances in the history of the sport, AND at the same time Roberto Luongo puked all over himself. Couts is comparable to Bergeron, maybe a tad below but a very slight tad below.
- jd250

Even if some people maybe over estimate Bergy as player

And maybe if some under estimate coots as a player

Who’s a hall of famer? Bergy or coots ?
If none who’s closer in the discussion?

Bergy and Bergy hands down. No knock to coots.

In my adult lifetime as far as great defensive centers with offense skill leadership all the bs of hockey player etc it’s simple and clear cut

1) datsyuk
2) Bergy
3) long list anze coots oreilly many others etc. that can be debated for 3rd and so on

Welcome to america -- you say what those in power agree with or suffer the consequences
- corduroy

I believe there's a word for it...if I could only put my finger on it...oh yeah, Communism!

Bergeron is a hall of fame player. Coots is in realm of Bergy I agree but not same player. Also how is Bergy gonna look at 37? Coots will be 30 not 28. That’s a big difference. It’s borderline signing that long deal at 28. At 30 if you give a 7-8 year deal to a player that has 11 years on his body he better be an elite player. A player worthy of hall of fame discussion. Do you see coots in either of these categories? I love when people compare coots to Bergy. It’s just wrong. Sorry coots is no Bergy. Bergy has that it factor that some players just have. It’s like briere come playoff time. Sure he was good regular season sometimes very good but playoff time it was like a whole new player. How many selkes for Bergy? Cup winner? Clutch player? Now coots…. And that’s not to knock coots. If we rid Jake in this stinko rumor and could ride out or rid Jvr and let g leave after next year fine sign coots 5/9 mil. Give him extra money less term. But going over 5 is just crazy. 5 years or less and rid g/Jake/Jvr over next year and I’m all in on coots 100%.
- Stayin alive

Bergeron is 7 years older than Coots and has played with much better teams than Coots has with the Flyers. Bergeron was 26 when he won his first Selke. Coots was 27. Coots is also a better goal scorer than Bergeron. It is not far fetched to see him follow a similar path to Bergeron, as he is already probably already a more successful player on an individual level than Bergeron. By the way, Bergeron is 35 and still an extremely effective player. To think Coots can't continue playing as good as he has been for another 6-7 years is just negative thinking. You have a false sense of reality to think that players can't succeed while in their 30s. Reference the list I posted earlier of all the players that are top tier NHLers that are in their 30s. He asked for the list and hasnt responded since I posted it because it made him look completely ignorant. This crap you and SSB post about players not being able to be worth big contracts into their early 30s is just comical.

I believe there's a word for it...if I could only put my finger on it...oh yeah, Communism!
- dubc55

Oh my! The “C” word on a hockey blog.

Serious question… you think coots is gonna maintain his play starting new contract at age 30 for 7-8 years?
- Stayin alive

Did Couturier hurt you in some way?

Oh my! The “C” word on a hockey blog.
- Minnyhock

Hahaha yep. I went there 😁

Hahaha yep. I went there 😁
- dubc55

I admire truth. I commend for having the stones to say it.

Omg lmao just in those 6 years Bergy with 4 30+ goal seasons and how many selkes? 4? 5?
And coots with 2 30 goal season in whole career and 1 token selke.

First off coots isn’t gonna produce like Bergy in his 30’s or be winning selkes like Bergy did. Bergy is a hall of famer no doubt.
Coots can be good even very good for next few seasons. But just because teams stupidly give out these long term deals doesn’t make it an excuse to do it. Almost every one of them ends bad and hampers the team in the future. Again I’d rather pay more $ for less term with coots.

The problem is we have to get rid of here it is again… the long term deals of g/Jake or Hayes. See how these long term deals (frank) the future and create huge problems? So it’s a repeating cycle. You know how to break the cycle? STOP SIGNING LONG TERM DEALS FOR NON GENERATIONAL PLAYERS. I mean I get gibing mcdavid long term. I get signing sid at 25 long term. And ov. Coots? G? Jake? It’s just dumb. I also get the gm doesn’t care because he’s trying to win now and damn the future won’t be his problem.
Think of it this way if you sign coots to this 7-8 deal like you say WHO are you losing in the future of these young kids? Who is it gonna be this time that we’d love to keep but can’t afford because coots type contract problem down the line? Or who can you NOT go out and trade for or sign in free agency because we’re cap strapped with aging player we stupidly signed 4-5-6-7 years ago knowing this problem would come up? Aren’t we in that position RIGHT now? G/Jake/Jvr deals why o why just set self up to deal with it again in 4-5 years ? Why? Because we added an Ellis type player? We aren’t close why screw the future? I mean hey if can somehow rid of g/Jake/Jvr/ghost all by end of this coming season maybe say (frank) it sign coots and use all that cap space and go all in with free agents. I mean hasn’t worked for last 46 years but it would be exciting I’ll admit that. But is that even feasible?
- Stayin alive

I agree that the problem is not long term deals, its who you give the long term deals to. For example I had no problem with the Flyers handing out long term deals to G and Jake when their time came. Both were two of the best forwards in the game and you would think the Flyers would build around them. But I did have a problem with Hextall signing JVR to his current deal and then Fletcher signing Hayes to his current deal. Those are the deals I think kill you because you are committing significant cap space for good, but not great players. So you have to make the right decisions on who you pay and who you don't, and the Flyers have been mediocre at best in this area. I think for example Landeskog is the type of player you hand out a long term deal to as is Couts. If I am CF I move on from Jake, JVR and Ghost, and even move on from G if he does not want to take a home team discount. The Flyers need desperately to define a new core to build around IMO.

Wow. Just wow. You really value him that much. Give up a tk&1st
Then sign 28 LW 8 years /8per?

I mean maybe and it’s a hard maybe if he was 25. At 28 ? No way. And I’m a big landy fan.
- Stayin alive

Landeskog is another Bergeron type player, he will easily be putting up numbers in his mid 30s, barring injury of course. If you are as big a fan as you say, 28 years old should not scare you one bit.

I agree that the problem is not long term deals, its who you give the long term deals to. For example I had no problem with the Flyers handing out long term deals to G and Jake when their time came. Both were two of the best forwards in the game and you would think the Flyers would build around them. But I did have a problem with Hextall signing JVR to his current deal and then Fletcher signing Hayes to his current deal. Those are the deals I think kill you because you are committing significant cap space for good, but not great players. So you have to make the right decisions on who you pay and who you don't, and the Flyers have been mediocre at best in this area. I think for example Landeskog is the type of player you hand out a long term deal to as is Couts. If I am CF I move on from Jake, JVR and Ghost, and even move on from G if he does not want to take a home team discount. The Flyers need desperately to define a new core to build around IMO.
- jd250

The reasons you listed are why CF gets the big bucks. Making the right decision on contracts is GM 101.

Bergeron is 7 years older than Coots and has played with much better teams than Coots has with the Flyers. Bergeron was 26 when he won his first Selke. Coots was 27. Coots is also a better goal scorer than Bergeron. It is not far fetched to see him follow a similar path to Bergeron, as he is already probably already a more successful player on an individual level than Bergeron. By the way, Bergeron is 35 and still an extremely effective player. To think Coots can't continue playing as good as he has been for another 6-7 years is just negative thinking. You have a false sense of reality to think that players can't succeed while in their 30s. Reference the list I posted earlier of all the players that are top tier NHLers that are in their 30s. He asked for the list and hasnt responded since I posted it because it made him look completely ignorant. This crap you and SSB post about players not being able to be worth big contracts into their early 30s is just comical.
- Richieattack18

A couple points here… coots is a better scorer? 375 career goals to 174. You think coots getting 200 more goals over next 7 years to make up the year difference? More than likely not.

Yes players CAN be worthy of big contract in their early 30’s. That’s not what we’re talking about I’m absolutely 100% fine giving coots 8-9 mil over next 4-maybe 5 years. But he’s probably gonna want 7-8 year deal. NO ONE is getting that type $ at 36-37-38 years old unless they are hall of fame player elite generational player. If that.
The problem with coots is he was underpayed on his last contract. He’s gonna cash in. Which he absolutely should do if he can. Name one player age 36-38 you’d give 8-9 mil on 3 year deal in league now?

Landeskog is another Bergeron type player, he will easily be putting up numbers in his mid 30s, barring injury of course. If you are as big a fan as you say, 28 years old should not scare you one bit.
- jd250

My problem is the game is going younger and younger. Honestly you have to identify you’re young core and pay them earlier and longer and you better be right about them. Look at Matthews for example. Leafs wanted to go longer term. Player didn’t so he could get 2 huge deals and then some. The game has changed. The teams that adapt will thrive. If coots was the future at 24-25 they should’ve went big on his deal then. What’s he getting 4 mil? Maybe if they paid him more he wouldn’t be looking to break bank now? There’s no way he resigns here for less than 7 years 8-9 mil per. What if coots puts up something like 25 goals 35-40 assist this year? 60-65 points? Even say he puts up 70… is that worth 8-9 mil? Even with good defensive play? Now at 6 mil per year I can go along with. Pay him maybe a little less value next few years and overpay a bit toward end of deal. I don’t think he takes that tho. Last thing I want is for him to walk at end of year and get nothing. That’s the worst asset management possible. He might not even want to sign here. Who knows. Then what? Just get what you can? At deadline? Horrible asset management.

Couturier is gonna get paid whether he’s in Philly or not. He just has too much game. Fletcher should have a good read on whether or not he can sign him by the time the regular season rolls around. Does Couturier want to stay in Philly? Ideally, Fletcher can extend for 5 years. Couturier would get more money in that short term scenario. If they go long 7-8 yrs then Fletch will have to tamp down the salary for the longer term. The bottom line is does Couturier want to be in Philly and what is the price point and term that is something Fletch can live with.