FWIW, here's an article that details some of those rumors:

https://www.startribune.c...yan-suter-gone/600077722/
- CaptainSensible

Yeah, seems like Suter and Parise were pretty (frank)ing entitled and even a bit cancerous.

This wasn’t about protecting Dumba and a forward. This was about organizational conflict.

Parise was taken off the power play, sitting in the press box, and playing on the 4th line when playing. He expressed his displeasure.

Suter was the Wild’s 4th best D man this year. Suter still has value and skill but is definitely in decline. Going forward, Suter was going to end up being a 3rd pair D man further exposing his deficiencies by playing with someone not named Spurgeon Guerin likely concluded that like Parise, Suter would be unhappy with a reduced role. This was likely a move to avert a potentially poisonous room with 2 disgruntled vets.
- Minnyhock

Thanks for the article. Nice last line on it.

But here is my question. Their contracts, while bad, were not outlandishly so. Why not approach them to waive NMC and either tell them what would happen if they didn't (the buy-out) and if they did agree, trade them with salary retained or expose them with sweeteners?

The amount of salary retained would have been significantly, significantly below the dead cap hit.

Thanks for the article. Nice last line on it.

But here is my question. Their contracts, while bad, were not outlandishly so. Why not approach them to waive NMC and either tell them what would happen if they didn't (the buy-out) and if they did agree, trade them with salary retained or expose them with sweeteners?

The amount of salary retained would have been significantly, significantly below the dead cap hit.
- PT21

Because in situations like this there is an agent in between them that usually does the talking.

Because in situations like this there is an agent in between them that usually does the talking.
- JW98FlyerFan

You may well be right but personally I don't buy your theory. There is always an agent unless a decision had been already been taken (which implies nothing further to discuss). Nobody is going to call a player and say, hey lets discuss $ and term. Because the player is going to say: "talk to my agent" anyway. There are all kinds of tax arcaneness that a player would not be expected to know.

And if the agent actually had a discussion, and did not tell his clients (Parise and Suter claim this is the first they heard of it), well then, hopefully they are suing the agent for gross negligence and breach of contract.

Thanks for the article. Nice last line on it.

But here is my question. Their contracts, while bad, were not outlandishly so. Why not approach them to waive NMC and either tell them what would happen if they didn't (the buy-out) and if they did agree, trade them with salary retained or expose them with sweeteners?

The amount of salary retained would have been significantly, significantly below the dead cap hit.
- PT21

Good question. My take is that possibly he didn’t want to ask out of respect for them or maybe knowing what the answer would be. There was no chance of Francis taking Parise and little chance of him taking Suter. Why didn’t Suter offer to waive his NMC for the team? Guerin may have responded differently in that case.

Good question. My take is that possibly he didn’t want to ask out of respect for them or maybe knowing what the answer would be. There was no chance of Francis taking Parise and little chance of him taking Suter. Why didn’t Suter offer to waive his NMC for the team? Guerin may have responded differently in that case.
- Minnyhock

Parise's probably been approached multiple times in the past about waiving -- probably said (frank) off.

Sounds like Suter was legitimately blindsided. Guerin probably pulled the trigger before Suter could go running to ownership, lol.

Parise's probably been approached multiple times in the past about waiving -- probably said (frank) off.

Sounds like Suter was legitimately blindsided. Guerin probably pulled the trigger before Suter could go running to ownership, lol.
- Tomahawk

Agreed.

Thanks for the article. Nice last line on it.

But here is my question. Their contracts, while bad, were not outlandishly so. Why not approach them to waive NMC and either tell them what would happen if they didn't (the buy-out) and if they did agree, trade them with salary retained or expose them with sweeteners?

The amount of salary retained would have been significantly, significantly below the dead cap hit.
- PT21

The Athletic also had a solid article. The article interviewed Parise and Parise expanded on how his phone call went with Guerin. He said although he expected it after how this season went that it still came as a shock. He said he had a good talk with Guerin.

Apparently Guerin called Suter first and he declined his call. He then called Parise and broke the news. Immediately after, Parise called Suter to break the news and then mid phone call Suter gets another call from Guerin. He picks up this time and hung up as soon as Guerin told him he's getting bought out lol.

Good question. My take is that possibly he didn’t want to ask out of respect for them or maybe knowing what the answer would be. There was no chance of Francis taking Parise and little chance of him taking Suter. Why didn’t Suter offer to waive his NMC for the team? Guerin may have responded differently in that case.
- Minnyhock

Odd that it was not even broached.

An interesting question is whether it is in the player's interest to waive in such situations. Each of Parise and Suter end up getting 5 mil over 8 years (with buyout) instead of 10 million over 4. Compounded, thats probably a 7 mil swing. They also face the vexation of having to go the UFA route and so on and probably repeatedly as they will likely not get more than 1-2 year deals if that.

They likely are not playing more than 3-4 years. Will they make up the difference ever?

EDIT: Actually, more like 9 mil.

Parise's probably been approached multiple times in the past about waiving -- probably said (frank) off.

Sounds like Suter was legitimately blindsided. Guerin probably pulled the trigger before Suter could go running to ownership, lol.
- Tomahawk

So you are saying a new GM did something sneakily and preemptively that his owner would have disapproved off?

Ok, maybe his job security is not as high as I said it was.

If Fletcher won't play GM i will,

Vorachek + Nak + 20221st(lottery protected)(i think krak will try to get 1st in multiple years like Vegas did thus the 2022) for Krak to make cap space for us.

Manson + Rackell for 13th overall + ghost

Risto for 2021 2nd + 2022 3rd

I gave up alot of draft picks to get this team pointed into the correct direction, i might add a 4th line protector who can skate maybe ask Anaheim about deslauriers and add a 4th or 5th rounder.


Also goal tenders i focus on are Ullmark. Dreidger, i want two goalies who can play 50 games if needed. Elliot is good for about 15 then drops off.

https://nhl.nbcsports.com...s-came-up-a-couple-times/

After reading this, safe bet neither is coming to Philly (not that I wanted to see either in a Flyers uniform anyway).

Odd that it was not even broached.

An interesting question is whether it is in the player's interest to waive in such situations. Each of Parise and Suter end up getting 5 mil over 8 years (with buyout) instead of 10 million over 4. Compounded, thats probably a 7 mil swing. They also face the vexation of having to go the UFA route and so on and probably repeatedly as they will likely not get more than 1-2 year deals if that.

They likely are not playing more than 3-4 years. Will they make up the difference ever?
- PT21

They had to know when they signed those contracts that they probably weren’t ever going to play out the entire deal. They both were vastly overpaid for years so it’s hard to be sympathetic to them earning even more millions in a slightly different manner.

They had to know when they signed those contracts that they probably weren’t ever going to play out the entire deal. They both were vastly overpaid for years so it’s hard to be sympathetic to them earning even more millions in a slightly different manner.
- hereticpride

What I was getting at is that it seemed it would be in each player's interest and Wild's interest to waive NMC under such circumstances.

Why, you would almost have though Guerin wants to carry a dead cap anchor.

So you are saying a new GM did something sneakily and preemptively that his owner would have disapproved off?

Ok, maybe his job security is not as high as I said it was.
- PT21

There's no buyout w/o ownership approval. I'm saying that Guerin didn't wanna chance Suter running to Leipold and causing a whole bunch of drama before it was set in stone.

Fletcher signed Suter and Parise to big $$$ and long contracts when he was the Wild's GM back in 2012. Both of them just got bought out by the Wild. I hope Fletcher makes some good moves during the off season, but most Flyers fans are not very confident. I hope Fletcher proves us all wrong and pulls a rabbit out of his hat.

Fletcher signed Suter and Parise to big $$$ and long contracts when he was the Wild's GM back in 2012. Both of them just got bought out by the Wild. I hope Fletcher makes some good moves during the off season, but most Flyers fans are not very confident. I hope Fletcher proves us all wrong and pulls a rabbit out of his hat.
- Thors-Hammer

Hayes will get bought out, if he doesn't land on perma-LTIR first.

What I was getting at is that it seemed it would be in each player's interest and Wild's interest to waive NMC under such circumstances.

Why, you would almost have though Guerin wants to carry a dead cap anchor.

- PT21

What's in it for the players to waive? Potentially end up bouncing around at the end of their careers, uprooting their families? They negotiated all that term and leverage in the first place for a reason.

What's in it for the players to waive? Potentially end up bouncing around at the end of their careers, uprooting their families? They negotiated all that term and leverage in the first place for a reason.
- Tomahawk

Well, many millions more guaranteed. Remember, if the alternative is buyout, they are doing the bouncing around anyway, with much less guarantees and likely lower overall income given their age.

Well, many millions more guaranteed. Remember, if the alternative is buyout, they are doing the bouncing around anyway, with much less guarantees and likely lower overall income given their age.
- PT21

Both contracts back-dive like crazy. They're not losing much money relative to the rest of the contract.

And now they have control over where they go. Or they could just retire, too.

If Fletcher won't play GM i will,

Vorachek + Nak + 20221st(lottery protected)(i think krak will try to get 1st in multiple years like Vegas did thus the 2022) for Krak to make cap space for us.

Manson + Rackell for 13th overall + ghost

Risto for 2021 2nd + 2022 3rd

I gave up alot of draft picks to get this team pointed into the correct direction, i might add a 4th line protector who can skate maybe ask Anaheim about deslauriers and add a 4th or 5th rounder.


Also goal tenders i focus on are Ullmark. Dreidger, i want two goalies who can play 50 games if needed. Elliot is good for about 15 then drops off.
- michaelputt

No offense but if you’re giving up the future with all those picks you need more return than fill in players and loss of 1 bad contract

Both contracts back-dive like crazy. They're not losing much money relative to the rest of the contract.

And now they have control over where they go. Or they could just retire, too.
- Tomahawk

Look at pre and post buyout salaries for Parise (Suter's is identical).

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/zach-parise

Put that money in the stock market and that is likely a 8 mil difference over 8 years.

Are they gonna make up that 8 mil over the next 8 years? They are 36. Parise may well get 1 year deal, do badly and retire. 2 for Suter.

So, maybe, maybe not.

No offense but if you’re giving up the future with all those picks you need more return than fill in players and loss of 1 bad contract
- Stayin alive

Just get rid of Voracek.

Please. Then G. I'm so over it. All of it.

Make G agreeable to his destination and take the return.

If our GM is worth a damn? And won't trade Coutourier?

This is a close hybrid No-rebuild / rebuild.

Edit: Let's not assume that Voracek and G will have extreme negative returns. Just for the hell of it.

My take is that they have written off the next 3 years. Of course they will never come out and say that. Its bad for ticket sales. This move was, on the face of it and based on Guerin's statements, squarely made for a horizon beyond that.

Now look beyond that 3 years:

1. The dead cap hit will remove both ability and pressure to be in the competitive death spiral they were mired in. They can't be competitive being forced to be much closer to floor than cap.

2. They are absent two pretty good player contributions.

Above 2 means: high draft picks.

3. Also, during the rebuild, as guys like Kaprisov, Rossi etc come into their own, there will be no ancient former superstars clogging up the culture. I think the hiring of Evason last year, a guy with a long track record working with young players, reflects that as well.

Will it work? Gee I dunno. But I like what I think they did a lot. Its nice to see a franchise having the balls to risk competitiveness for higher aspirations.
- PT21

It's not going to remove pressure to be competitive. The Wild made the playoffs this past season and took Vegas to a game 7. The fans want to win and aren't going to just sit back and accept the Wild not being a good team. You also don't know what Guerin is going to do and how he is going to approach the future. You made this read with the tunnel vision of thinking that the only way to get good is to tank. This is the same flawed reasoning that saw you misread the situation with the LA Kings and your claim that they were in a "soft tank". They're now searching for a defenseman and a top 6 forward to compete for the playoffs.

24/25 really. After that, the cap hit will be more than absorbed by rise in salary cap.

Chances Guerin will be around after that? Oh I would personally say, 98-99%. No GM makes a huge move like that w/o ownership's full blessing. In today's age, ownership would be fully involved about ramifications, which likely means a string of very poor seasons coming up.

You only get fired for the unexpected bad, not the expected bad. Guerin's been given a carte blanche the way I see it.
- PT21

I remember when Hextall was given the full blessing of management to implement his plan. They lost patience.