. Amazes me how defensive many get. Cant talk bad about their beloved flyers.
- hello it's me 2050

Yes or no? Did the Flyers offer Pietrangelo a contract where he specifically declined? Simple question.

Yes or no? Did the Flyers offer Pietrangelo a contract where he specifically declined? Simple question.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

yes

Yes or no? Did the Flyers offer Pietrangelo a contract where he specifically declined? Simple question.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Cracks me up this is the logic you are using.

Sooo aren't we digressing a bit though: never said anything about history... Its one thing to say that a player just happens to choose another team in the free market. Its quite another though if a player like Seth Jones is a priori ruling out a team like Flyers to even consider signing with.

I mean, 2 stages of refusal. One is I let you make the best offer and then perhaps I decide to choose someone else. The other is: you are not even in the list of teams I would consider an offer from.
- PT21

History matters though doesn't it? I mean if we talking about FA's not wanting to come here as if it is a recent thing, I've pointed out that it is not a recent thing. Its been that way for the length of the franchise.

I was talking about players who finished their careers and remained in the area, not free agent signings, FYI.
- KGBflyers10

In that case, you were the only one. He never said anything about guys retiring and staying in the area.

More to the point I saw you mention Stamkos and Pietro for the Leafs. Some context is in order.

Stamkos was very interested in playing for the Leafs. He was wined and dined and they went hard sell on him. But apparently, they scared him off with too big a push. I have also read that the reason they succeeded with JT and not with Stamkos is because the Leafs were much weaker 5-6 years ago in Stamkos romance time.

Pietro was apparently also very interested in playing for the Leafs. The Leafs were in the list of the 3 teams he wanted to play for. There were serious discussions with his agent. Apparently however, the interest was not reciprocated to the terms of his satisfaction. Probably, Leafs were spooked by yet another huge long term signing, with a guy over 30.

We are not talking team history and you know this. We are talking the present and last decade. Hey keep making excuses for this franchise. They love fans like you.

the needle mover comment went over your head i guess.
- hello it's me 2050

But we are talking history. Im pointing out something that has been franchise long, you are saying its only been in the last decade. You dont get to set the criteria once you have been proven wrong.

Like I said....kids table nonsense coming from you. Go sit back there and let the adults have their conversation.

History matters though doesn't it? I mean if we talking about FA's not wanting to come here as if it is a recent thing, I've pointed out that it is not a recent thing. Its been that way for the length of the franchise.
- MBFlyerfan

Ok sure. For that particular point, sure.

I honestly don't know why Flyers would NOT be in a list except for standings and perhaps the state/city income tax and personal reasons (Like Panarin-girlfriend-Manhattan). If a guy says its a non-starter, I suspect its the 1st or the 3rd.

The trade proposals as usual are nuts. A 1st, Myers and Patrick for Ekholm?


We need a top pairing RH defenseman so lets give up major assets and drastically overpay for a 2nd pairing LH defenseman who is already over 30. Crazy talk.
- MJL

"Flyers have plenty of options and assets to make deals, they just need the right deal.

A team like the Preds, they will want to move Ekholm, they are rumored to really like Patrick. Myers yes had a bad year but the preds seem to be rebuilding. Would they take Patrick and Myers and a first? I don’t think Ekholm is the solution, it is just an example of a team like the preds in transition and the flyers with needs

Make a good deal CF, there out there"

assume you are referring to my post above, I was pretty clear in saying the Flyers needed a Right handed D and that I didn't think Ekholm was it. I used the example to show there are deals out there and CF needs to find the right one.

The rumor is the Preds are interested in Patrick so it was an easy to use as an example of how there will be deals out there, that it is just not the Flyers looking to change it up.

I added Myers and the 1st to complete the example of the trade. If Ekholm is on the block we know Patrick won't get the deal done, other teams would outbid the Flyers. Myers would make sense if you were bringing in Ekholm in and a pick would also make sense. I would not offer that to start nor would I want this deal. I want the RHD for Provy, I actually want Myers and Sanheim but we don't live in fantasy land, you have to give to get. The offer is not an example of silly season. Would it be silly for the Flyers to go that route? In my opinion, yes.

In reality CF is going to make a deal, you know that, we know that, we can say what we want and that is a legit conversation for this board. There is also the reality that most all see, changes are coming, that is a legit conversation for this board also.

The trade proposals as usual are nuts. A 1st, Myers and Patrick for Ekholm?


We need a top pairing RH defenseman so lets give up major assets and drastically overpay for a 2nd pairing LH defenseman who is already over 30. Crazy talk.
- MJL

if Ek was a RHD i would do it in a second. I dont see any major asset we are giving away in that scenario. Prob the most valuable in this is the 1st, but if its a weak draft, might not be that big of an issue.

Using Logins logic, if Ovechkin doesn't sign with us its because he doesn't want to play for the Flyers. It has nothing to do with him wanting to stay in Washington because "other teams don't matter".

Have a cookie and some jello while you are over at the kids table.

But we are talking history. Im pointing out something that has been franchise long, you are saying its only been in the last decade. You dont get to set the criteria once you have been proven wrong.

Like I said....kids table nonsense coming from you. Go sit back there and let the adults have their conversation.
- MBFlyerfan

Proven wrong is laughable. We are not talking history and that has been clear. You are changing the criteria.

It hasn't been franchise long. I will say it again:

The flyers were at one time a premiere organization. One of the better franchises in the league. A destination pretty much all the top free agents considered. Now they are a run of the mill franchise in every aspic

do you disagree with the bold?

Cracks me up this is the logic you are using.
- hello it's me 2050

I agree the Flyers used to be a premier destination for FA’s. I don’t think it’s an indictment on the city at all. Back as early as 10 years ago the Flyers were seen as a team that ALWAYS was a team that wanted to remain competitive, a team that wanted to go for it every year. Some around here se that as a negative….but the last decade the Flyers aren’t seen as being a team that would be aggressive…so why would a free agent pick here over several other teams that are willing to be bold and take some risks ? Guys want a chance to win….to play for a team that tries he’ll or high water to get there. Can anyone with a straight face say the Flyers are still that organization ?

If SJ doesn't indeed want to sign with Flyers AND he goes to a team other than the Avs, that would be a pretty powerful indictment of not just the current state of the team, but also its reasonable future trajectory. Because that would say that he doesn't expect Flyers to be contenders during the near to intermediate future irrespective of what they are likely gonna do.

Honestly, this might well be what the Flyers need. If it becomes common knowledge that Flyers are not a happening team for a while, a significant part of the fan base might tune out. As they did with Hawks before the recent dynasty, Bruins for many years the Chara reign, Pens before Crosby Malkin era, Tampa Bay in the year after their 2004 cup into the Hedman signing, LA prior to a couple of years into the Doughty era and so on.

When teams are not filling up seats in % terms by a large margin, there is an economic incentive for them to change course. Flyers almost always are at max, good years or bad. The reason for long term structural changes is absent.
- PT21

if he didnt sign with the flyers, and went somewhere, all that says is he prefers that team or they offered him more. Maybe the flyers are #2 on his list of 30 teams, and he signs with number 1. It doesnt say he doesnt think the flyers are contenders unless he actually says it. Dont try and interpret his thoughts.

Using Logins logic, if Ovechkin doesn't sign with us its because he doesn't want to play for the Flyers. It has nothing to do with him wanting to stay in Washington because "other teams don't matter".

Have a cookie and some jello while you are over at the kids table.
- MBFlyerfan

Well if he signs elsewhere it is a fact he doesn't want to play for the flyers. The reasons why do not matter. Fact is he wants to play for someone else.

Ok sure. For that particular point, sure.

I honestly don't know why Flyers would NOT be in a list except for standings and perhaps the state/city income tax and personal reasons (Like Panarin-girlfriend-Manhattan). If a guy says its a non-starter, I suspect its the 1st or the 3rd.
- PT21

some will want the big city (NY, LA etc), some will have a feel that they are the missing piece for a team. That will all factor into their short list, on their short list money matters, term matters. After the allure of the big city and your top tier teams I think the Flyers are just as attractive a destination as most.

This board and the fanbase by and large look at the Flyers as they are no closer to contention as they were 4 years ago. Around the league, from what I have read, most see last season as an outlier, they see a deep team that needs to take the next step, a team that needs upgrades.

We will see this coming season.

if he didnt sign with the flyers, and went somewhere, all that says is he prefers that team or they offered him more. Maybe the flyers are #2 on his list of 30 teams, and he signs with number 1. It doesnt say he doesnt think the flyers are contenders unless he actually says it. Dont try and interpret his thoughts.
- bradster

Ok thanks now please reread the first part of the post you responded to. It begins with SJ, and is based on him not wanting to sign an extension with the Flyers at this stage (and this reason is not a Avs reason).

Iotw, we don't even get to the "offered more" stage.

I few the future of the flyers much like the devils. No one really wants to play for the devils and I think the location is a big part of that. Philly is just as bad, if not worse these days.

some will want the big city (NY, LA etc), some will have a feel that they are the missing piece for a team. That will all factor into their short list, on their short list money matters, term matters. After the allure of the big city and your top tier teams I think the Flyers are just as attractive a destination as most.

This board and the fanbase by and large look at the Flyers as they are no closer to contention as they were 4 years ago. Around the league, from what I have read, most see last season as an outlier, they see a deep team that needs to take the next step, a team that needs upgrades.

We will see this coming season.
- wcorvette

I dunno what sources you are refrring to, but Vegas ranks Flyers tied for 16th, 30/1 for the cup next year. Pretty much where they have finished last 4 seasons.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/

Flyers are in a very dangerous place right now and there is pressure from up top on Fletcher. Last year for certain spots, he chose not to make a move to replace a player for whatever reasons. I don't think that will be the case this year. He has to improve the team or he won't have the job for much longer. It's really scary actually.
- MJL

i dont understand what the scary part is?

I few the future of the flyers much like the devils. No one really wants to play for the devils and I think the location is a big part of that. Philly is just as bad, if not worse these days.
- Sir_Robot_Farts

View... not few

Proven wrong is laughable. We are not talking history and that has been clear. You are changing the criteria.

It hasn't been franchise long. I will say it again:

The flyers were at one time a premiere organization. One of the better franchises in the league. A destination pretty much all the top free agents considered. Now they are a run of the mill franchise in every aspic

do you disagree with the bold?
- hello it's me 2050

They are still seen as a first rate organization that treats their guys great. But FA’s want to win now , not three years down the road. All things being equal, they will choose aggressive and contenders.

I few the future of the flyers much like the devils. No one really wants to play for the devils and I think the location is a big part of that. Philly is just as bad, if not worse these days.
- Sir_Robot_Farts

Yeah, please, Mr. Knight of the Florida Realm. Just stop. You have no idea what is going on with the city. No idea. You are stuck with the cliched idea of trash-gansta blah blah nonsense I read here all the time.

Look at some issues beyond such "feelings". You could begin with this, from 2019.

https://www.pewtrusts.org...-philadelphia-in-10-years

Ofc, things may change because of Covid, but for now, the real estate market is off the charts, and office space is filling up quick.

yes
- hello it's me 2050

Source? Nowhere have I seen was any offer made. Flyers wouldnt have had the cap to make an offer

Ok thanks now please reread the first part of the post you responded to. It begins with SJ, and is based on him not wanting to sign an extension with the Flyers at this stage (and this reason is not a Avs reason).

Iotw, we don't even get to the "offered more" stage.
- PT21

so it comes down to you know exactly what he thinks, gotchya

Source? Nowhere have I seen was any offer made. Flyers wouldnt have had the cap to make an offer
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

its isnt usually posted which teams made offers and were declined.