Just for a team like LA that has some aging stars on long contracts they need to do a quick retool to bring that team around before they need to go into full rebuild. We keep trading away our 2nds which has proven somewhat costly in prospect depth. Arvidsson has elite possession metrics despite being down in offensive production.

Ultimately I guess we didn't trade for him because it would force us to expose another forward in the expansion draft which isn't a problem for LA. So they get him for cheap since Nashville probably wants to shed cap and protect other assets.

edit: using the "teams will trade a guy for cheap because they'll lose them in expansion" line we might be able to get somebody in a trade not giving up a lot in return. We have another protection spot for a defender left so it makes sense to go that route instead of for a forward.

Just my 2 cents: I give McLeod a clear nod over Merkley. Butcher vs. Subban is a tough choice. I wouldn't mind Seattle taking either but not sure what's better for the team. Don't want to move Miles Wood.
- Queenie_5_hole

Merkley isn't even in the conversation, and Butcher probably isn't either. Subbans contract sucks but we could double it and it would barely effect our cap situation and he's got 1 year left.

Merkley isn't even in the conversation, and Butcher probably isn't either. Subbans contract sucks but we could double it and it would barely effect our cap situation and he's got 1 year left.
- rmdevil313

Thing with subban is, if nothing else, he’s a decent trade deadline trade piece as we can retain 50%... a 4.5 million subban in a 2nd pairing role isn’t bad, he wasn’t great last season, but much better than the season before. With the right line mate, he’d work on an expiring contract. Butcher isn’t a part of whatever we are building... protect Subban, the return no matter how you slice it is far greater than butcher.

When Anaheim takes Luke Hughes and then we trade the 4th pick away for some garbage defenseman I'll be a believer again.
- Pomegrant

(frank) yeah

Merkley isn't even in the conversation, and Butcher probably isn't either. Subbans contract sucks but we could double it and it would barely effect our cap situation and he's got 1 year left.
- rmdevil313

Yeah, I think Merkley is just a tweener; but I was responding to Jagrbomb saying he'd protect Merkley over McLeod.

Butcher would seem somewhat attractive to Seattle; but with Subban, you have to wonder if they'd steer clear because of the salary. The thing is until Tommy F actually gets some defenders in here both guys have some value to this organization. Not saying much but we need the help.

Thing with subban is, if nothing else, he’s a decent trade deadline trade piece as we can retain 50%... a 4.5 million subban in a 2nd pairing role isn’t bad, he wasn’t great last season, but much better than the season before. With the right line mate, he’d work on an expiring contract. Butcher isn’t a part of whatever we are building... protect Subban, the return no matter how you slice it is far greater than butcher.
- Banana_Hammock

I agree Subban could have more trade value vs. Butcher but I don't see either player netting a large or great return unless they start the year on fire. Does anyone else think Subban's contract gives us a bit of a 7/4/1 scheme if we protect Butcher?

I don't know enough about Ron Francis to predict his kind of guy, or his vision for the roster, but I doubt its the goalie Evan Cormier as there should be better options for him in net. Taking Subban's contract assigns a costly obligation to the hope he plays better. Yes, Seattle too needs to hit the cap floor, but Seattle will get a chance to sign Free Agents that may be on the upside of their careers, fit their vision better, or at least not turning 33 and are possibly named Hamilton, to get to said floor. They are not in dire need to take this contract from us to make that happen. When watching the team on a somewhat regular basis the past two seasons there has been something consistently off with Subban's skating to me when I watch him and I think in turn has affected his overall game the unfortunate way we have seen. While his offensive numbers rebounded a bit last season, there were stretches where he just did not seem capable of handling the puck/keeping it in at the point, almost like a rookie with the jitters and it confounded me why they let him fumble like this on our Power Play. Other times he looked like a fridge on wheels and was so stiff(reminds me of young me actually). Anyone else notice this? If I see it, and at least one of you saw it, a professional organization probably sees it also. So as a betting man I don't think the odds favor an exposed Subban being taken.

The two likely Forwards we mention then:

Johnsson- Sure the audition tape was awful in red and black, As GM you can hope its an anomaly and know you are the type of GM that can put him in a role to succeed with a fresh start and new linemates (Francis looks in mirror "I'm Keith Hernandez"-Kisses Elaine, picks Johnsson). Cap Hits 3.4 for 2 years, not great if he has another year like this past one, would make him harder to move if it doesn't work. But its not awful. For the positive to Seattle, while the cap hit is 3.4 they only pay out 2.5 each season which for a startup franchise saves you almost a million in expenses each year, and he'd be gone after 2 if you are unable to move him and he continues the 2021 level of play we saw moving forward for the Krakheads. [If he somehow is protected by NJD this salary structure has to be why and should give us a peak behind the Harris operational curtains]

Bastian- I like him, fills a role cheaply for 2 years. Has some size. Doesn't have the offensive upside of Johnsson but will probably have the better next season relatively speaking to their different roles of the respective players.

Could also be any random AHL/NHL tweener guy we have not covered that Francis may like and does not carry a large financial obligation. (Vegas got in cap trouble quick)

Wait what if im wrong:

They take Subban- Okay I'm the idiot GM, they take him we gambled and lost. He goes on to win the Norris, Hart, Conn Smythe, and Coupe De La Stanley. I mean hey dream big. We then resign him that off season and poof back into a pumpkin. I cant think of a worse case scenario then that. You just read it and realize how crazy that would be so its more likely he just has another meh season with occasional flashes of his old glory because there is a once amazing player in there somewhere. We then get to open up 9 million, this makes Harris et al very happy and he lets Fitzy spend 700k for a now player. I mean come on that's almost a shiny new 4th liner. On the downside we don't get to trade him for an asset. On the positive, someone developmental could take some of the open minutes who will be with us past next year. So we open up playing time, cap space, but don't get to trade him....

Keep in mind, there a lot of moving parts we don't see. What the other 29 teams make available positionally to Seattle dictates the selection process also. We cant just look at our roster with Tunnel Vision and expect them to take player X from our lot because we think its the best option we have to offer, it could be the fit in that 29 piece puzzle driving choices. Whatever that puzzle looks like I just think that 9 million hit is too big a pill to swallow cost wise(by comparison to Johnsson it is an 8 million payout for PK next year alone, your gamble on Johnsson is only 5mil out of pocket and that's assuming you cant move him after 1 year should he not fit). The Hakstol hiring signals to me they aren't going gung ho like Vegas, so a flashy 1 year aging vet doesn't jive with a building process I envision a college coach to have. Maybe we should be watching out for our players that came out of the U.S. Collegiate System, Hakstol might be pushing for what he knows.

The big question: Assuming PK has a year on par with this past year what do we even think the return is if we eat a portion of it?(please hockey gawdz let him start the year on fire) A conditional 3rd that could become a 2? Just a 2nd? I dont see him netting a 1st even conditionally. How many contenders will be able to take 4.5m at the deadline? That's the real issue I see in moving him at the deadline. Colorado has a few players to sign and most likely wont have the copious space they had this year. We could get in on some of that threesome action and have another team take half of half, but that dilutes the return. (Also why didn't we do this already- displeased at our lack of weaponizing cap space- fitzy not into the threeway?)

There has been talk in our threads(and there is merit to this thinking) of not signing too many players to take roster spots and time from our youth, well when you pay a once great player who has dropped off 9 million, you play him. Even on the PP when it looks like he cant handle a puck. He shouldn't be on our roster after next season and is eating big minutes on the back end someone else could use to help us grow for the future. If Francis does take him I believe the positives out weigh a potential deadline return in the playing time and cap space opened by Subban's absence and worth the exposure gamble. You could give Butcher some of that time to see what he has. If it doesnt work, we move on, if he figures it out we may have a middle pair guy moving forward.

If they want a name, and a bloated cap hit for a season, sure Subban can fill that for them. I just see either forward being more useful relative to the cost. If I am Francis I take one of Bastian or Johnsson looking at it with Tunnel Vision.

What I'd like to know, what is Subban's trade value before the season and at the deadline? Is trading him even possible in this climate?

Yeah, I think Merkley is just a tweener; but I was responding to Jagrbomb saying he'd protect Merkley over McLeod.

Butcher would seem somewhat attractive to Seattle; but with Subban, you have to wonder if they'd steer clear because of the salary. The thing is until Tommy F actually gets some defenders in here both guys have some value to this organization. Not saying much but we need the help.
- Queenie_5_hole

No sir- after Mcleod's season last year, I'd protect him over Merkley. I liked the growth we saw.

I agree exposing Butcher presents a viable option to Seattle. I'd rather them take Subban and let us plug Butcher in that hole to see what he's got not let us find out what he's got in Seattle. It may not work in either place for Butcher but I don't want to wave goodbye yet.

No sir- after Mcleod's season last year, I'd protect him over Merkley. I liked the growth we saw.

I agree exposing Butcher presents a viable option to Seattle. I'd rather them take Subban and let us plug Butcher in that hole to see what he's got not let us find out what he's got in Seattle. It may not work in either place for Butcher but I don't want to wave goodbye yet.
- JagrBombs19

My apologies. I misread that. Seems like everyone agrees that there is no reason to protect Merkley.

Agree Sign Murray.....

Protect 7-3-1

Nico, Bratt, Zacha , Kuokkanen , Shak ,Wood, Mcleod .

Severson , Murray , Seigenthaler

Blackwood


Send a 4th round pick to Seattle to have them Pick Butcher .

Leaving Bastian ,Johnsson ,and PK NJD

No sir- after Mcleod's season last year, I'd protect him over Merkley. I liked the growth we saw.

I agree exposing Butcher presents a viable option to Seattle. I'd rather them take Subban and let us plug Butcher in that hole to see what he's got not let us find out what he's got in Seattle. It may not work in either place for Butcher but I don't want to wave goodbye yet.
- JagrBombs19

Butcher is 26, we know what we've got.

jagrbombs wins the essay contest of the year

jagrbombs wins the essay contest of the year
- MartysBetter88

I don’t like reading enough to read all that. Probably a good essay nonetheless...

jagrbombs wins the essay contest of the year
- MartysBetter88

There’s still time for you this year, don’t give up this easily.

There’s still time for you this year, don’t give up this easily.
- shvingter88

Doooooomed

Doooooomed
- JagrBombs19

With his attitude absolutely

NJ Devil's 7/3/1 Protection List:
FWDS:
Zacha, Nico, Bratt, Sharangovich, Kuokkanen
Wood, McLeod
Exposed:
Johnsson, Bastian, Merkley

DEFENSE:
Severson, Butcher, Siegenthaler
EXPOSED:
Subban, Murray(UFA)

* I hope they claim Johnsson personally as I don't think covid was an excuse or him not fitting w/ NJ instead that his 20 goal season 1 time was a fluke inflated by playing w/ All Star talent in Marner, Tavares, Matthew's etc.

* I also will post below an interesting explanation in the value of protecting Butcher & exposing Subban even though I believe NJ needs PK next season- it's more of a chest move that recent chirp chirp chirping suggest Seattle couldn’t or at least wouldn't choose Pernell-Karl Subban!

P.S. The writer was grossly wild as Murray is a UFA, NJ obviously should go 7/3/1,& there is no expansion protection option as 8/1/1.

* I also will post below an interesting explanation in the value of protecting Butcher & exposing Subban even though I believe NJ needs PK next season- it's more of a chest move that recent chirp chirp chirping suggest Seattle couldn’t or at least wouldn't choose Pernell-Karl Subban!
- Dirtyjerseydevils

Same expansion rules as the previous, yet it's been said, Kraken GM will have a different strategy via LV GK. Seattle will be signing certain players w/ purpose & intent to trade at draft & during free agency, where as; Vegas made deals w/ teams to take/not take a certain player- basically teams paid to keep an unprotected valued player or the later situation would be a vet the GM believed was no longer worth the value of current contract vs the salary cap space if removed from books paying Vegas prospects + again drift picks. Also, to simply put it Seattle will be going for it right off the bat probably based off the success of Vegas, hoping for a similiar start for their Team and will look to sign be free agent who don't come cheap.

GM's will know if this true we may as well closer to the draft, if so than PK's contract would things up for the Kraken.
Seattle's intended plans:
* Sign good free agents to build contender
* Take the best players from every team who have trade value or some with Seattle's help of retaining salary% to make the trade happen.
* Also, take players they truly want to build team

- NJ needs PK next season, but should risk exposing him. PK played his best season w/ NJ on a horrible D-Unit. He had trouble adjusting to a new team, after showing he declined from injury/age. 1 yr. left PK now is a #4 D.

- Seattle has many options at D. After their number guy goes through all the players they will pick maybe PK's contract fits, hence not being risk free. Seattle will have lot easier time "Wheelin 'N Dealin" + better options of tradeable players.
Just within NJ:
-Johnsson: they may want or feel is less a risk if they dont trade him intially feeling more comfortable seeing if Covid or NJ structure was his issue for being horrid last season.
-Merkley: He's borderline a Rookie who put up half a ppg.

* I would say Butcher, but all of this is so NJ can protect Butcher. His rookie yr. broke records scoring just above half ppg w/ mostly sheltered minutes, followed by sophomore slump pt wise was only a little less than a half ppg, yet played less sheltered all through Hall/Hynes/Shero drama only for his season ending injury, & his 3rd current season coach Ruff flat out doesn't like him. He was back to a half ppg while not being in sheltered mins but hardly got any games.
Why Will Butcher has Trade Value:
- 1 yr left on contract
- 100% can have a ceiling bigger than we've seen - Team scouts remember Hobey Baker winners
- Half PPG Average in 3 yrs on low scoring team

* If Fitzy plays it right PK doesn't get claimed instead Merkley, Bastian or Johnsson does & by protecting Butcher he can be used in a trade for a a bigger more two way RIGHT Shooting D Man. The trade could possibly be w/ Seattle w/ other pieces involved and one of the caveats is they have to take Merkley or Johnsson.

look guys, we can't have two people write really long posts this close together. dial it back.

look guys, we can't have two people write really long posts this close together. dial it back.
- Pomegrant

look guys, we can't have two people write really long posts this close together. dial it back.
- Pomegrant

Lol

Same expansion rules as the previous, yet it's been said, Kraken GM will have a different strategy via LV GK. Seattle will be signing certain players w/ purpose & intent to trade at draft & during free agency, where as; Vegas made deals w/ teams to take/not take a certain player- basically teams paid to keep an unprotected valued player or the later situation would be a vet the GM believed was no longer worth the value of current contract vs the salary cap space if removed from books paying Vegas prospects + again drift picks. Also, to simply put it Seattle will be going for it right off the bat probably based off the success of Vegas, hoping for a similiar start for their Team and will look to sign be free agent who don't come cheap.

GM's will know if this true we may as well closer to the draft, if so than PK's contract would things up for the Kraken.
Seattle's intended plans:
* Sign good free agents to build contender
* Take the best players from every team who have trade value or some with Seattle's help of retaining salary% to make the trade happen.
* Also, take players they truly want to build team

- NJ needs PK next season, but should risk exposing him. PK played his best season w/ NJ on a horrible D-Unit. He had trouble adjusting to a new team, after showing he declined from injury/age. 1 yr. left PK now is a #4 D.

- Seattle has many options at D. After their number guy goes through all the players they will pick maybe PK's contract fits, hence not being risk free. Seattle will have lot easier time "Wheelin 'N Dealin" + better options of tradeable players.
Just within NJ:
-Johnsson: they may want or feel is less a risk if they dont trade him intially feeling more comfortable seeing if Covid or NJ structure was his issue for being horrid last season.
-Merkley: He's borderline a Rookie who put up half a ppg.

* I would say Butcher, but all of this is so NJ can protect Butcher. His rookie yr. broke records scoring just above half ppg w/ mostly sheltered minutes, followed by sophomore slump pt wise was only a little less than a half ppg, yet played less sheltered all through Hall/Hynes/Shero drama only for his season ending injury, & his 3rd current season coach Ruff flat out doesn't like him. He was back to a half ppg while not being in sheltered mins but hardly got any games.
Why Will Butcher has Trade Value:
- 1 yr left on contract
- 100% can have a ceiling bigger than we've seen - Team scouts remember Hobey Baker winners
- Half PPG Average in 3 yrs on low scoring team

* If Fitzy plays it right PK doesn't get claimed instead Merkley, Bastian or Johnsson does & by protecting Butcher he can be used in a trade for a a bigger more two way RIGHT Shooting D Man. The trade could possibly be w/ Seattle w/ other pieces involved and one of the caveats is they have to take Merkley or Johnsson.
- Dirtyjerseydevils

The last thing this team needs is pk

look guys, we can't have two people write really long posts this close together. dial it back.
- Pomegrant

I miss spreadsheets.

With his attitude absolutely
- shvingter88

I'm just at a level of not really caring to have much of an opinion on this team. Nothing new has happened, so I'll wait for expansion. Then I'll wait for draft. I'd be happy with Clarke or Hughes, or that Edveinivnsnsson whatever his name is, or that Guenther character. Don't really care cuz the rankings are all over and who knows.
It's hard to have a strong opinion on much of anything with this team. Most of the players are still developing and everything is a big "who knows". I just remembered Ruff is still our coach.

Ok, big prediction- we finish 12th in the East next year, ahead of Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, and Ottawa. In the league we finish 23rd, ahead of Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Seattle, Anaheim, Ottawa, Arizona, San Jose, LA. Progress, but other teams are still too good, with too much talent on various levels compared to our developing kids.
We then draft the next Zach Parise at 10th overall in the 2022 draft.
Improve a few spots 22-23
Playoffs by 2024. And by that point I'll be .. 36? good heavens.

No sir- after Mcleod's season last year, I'd protect him over Merkley. I liked the growth we saw.

I agree exposing Butcher presents a viable option to Seattle. I'd rather them take Subban and let us plug Butcher in that hole to see what he's got not let us find out what he's got in Seattle. It may not work in either place for Butcher but I don't want to wave goodbye yet.
- JagrBombs19

Yup. I like the development we saw in McLeod and Bastian. No reason to believe they can't take another step, and/or really solidify themselves as being solid players you can trust and can have a positive energy impact without being a defensive liability. With so many kids on the team, including them, players that aren't defensive liabilities are valuable.

The ironic thing is reading posts like yours are worse than reading blogs.
Stop whining, its not that serious.
- Leniwm1

exactly. whyyy soooo ....