Rangers lucked out with Lafraniere, but point is, they also got rid off a lot of vets and salaries to get to the stage they are now: a young team with lots of potential.

McDonagh, Nash, Hayes, Shattenkirk, Grabner - I am sure I am forgetting 5 more names. Suddenly 80% of their vets were gone.
- PT21

The Rangers have Panarin, Trouba, Zbanajad, Buchnevich, Strome, Krieder, and Smith. All 26 years or older. The vets dominate the top ice time getters on the team. Why aren't you advocating for the Rangers to trade some of their older top players. Imagine what they could get for Panarin?

Exactly. But people look at lack of success + tanking to mean tanking led to lack of success. That's not true.
- PT21

If tanking doesn't lead to success than what does it lead to?

Didn't we learn what happens when you elevate young players into roles and situations that they aren't ready for from last year.
- MJL

Myers was the only "young" player elevated to a role he wasn't ready to handle.

He had a lot more time and space in junior and he was physically mature, so he could go through a bunch of defenders and take the puck to the net when he really wanted. He was also advanced for his age in terms of awareness so he was ahead of the play then.

He lost all those advantages in the NHL tho, since most everybody is strong, fast, aware, gaps are tight, and you have to go through layers and layers of defenders.

He just doesn't have the legs, strength or skill to really break down defenses on his own, so he's gotta give the puck to somebody else, hope they can make a play, and pray the puck ends up back on his stick in shooting position.
- Tomahawk

I have some comments about this, which again I am not disputing your analysis of, not being antagonistic, just challenging you ...

1. NoPa was the # 1 ranked North American skater in the final rankings of NHL central scouting. One can dispute the #1 ranking, but based on everything I have read, almost no one disputed a top 5 ranking. The things you point out, if they were so obvious, why did virtually every pro who makes their living from this sort of thing miss it?

2. By legs, I assume you mean skating. Most analysis of NoPa seemed to me to say he was an above average skater. Many said he had "great wheels":
https://futureconsiderati....ca/player/nolan-patrick/

3. Do you realize you make this exact same comment about many players? That they essentially float around in open space and are 1-dimensional snipers, who were able to get away with it with smaller peers in non-pro competition. Two examples: Patrick Laine and Isaac Ratcliffe are players you said this about. Further, based on your well known preferences for people like Marner and Ghost and so on, is it possible you are biased against a certain kind of game, which is kind of more north south and which might be what a bigger kid in the juniors is more apt to demonstrate?

If tanking doesn't lead to success than what does it lead to?
- MJL

MJL, if by success you mean championship, then this is a very easy question. I am very grateful to you for asking me this.

MJL, what it leads to is a situation where you repeatedly forswear support for any team that tanks (saying you would _never_ support tanking and consider it repugnant), then cheer them publicly after six years, then repeatedly start deleting posts many minutes after everyone had seen them (where you put quotation marks around an apparent non-existent quote about a legendary boxer by a legendary broadcaster, and say that you only support the team now because it was 6 years ago that they tanked)

MJL, given that you equate 6 years with never, would you support a petition to change the famous phrase to" "quoth the raven, six years more?"

I don’t remember articles about migraines but teams said they were aware….does that count ?
- landros 2

I’d accept that as long as it pre draft not after the after draft referring back. I saw no mention predraft anywhere and I actually did a lot of reading on nopa as nico was skyrocketing up chart and most likely #1 pick. I went to draft in Chicago and wanted to be informed of the possible likely pick. The more I read to me the pick IMO should’ve been miro. If not him certainly makar. Even if they didn’t want to take a dman Petterson rated a higher ceiling with almost the same floor as nopa so wouldn’t have been upset with that pick either. Nopa was truly a worrisome prospect

MJL, if by success you mean championship, then this is a very easy question. I am very grateful to you for asking me this.

MJL, what it leads to is a situation where you repeatedly forswear support for any team that tanks (saying you would _never_ support tanking and consider it repugnant), then cheer them publicly after six years, then repeatedly start deleting posts many minutes after everyone had seen them (where you put quotation marks around an apparent non-existent quote about a legendary boxer by a legendary broadcaster, and say that you only support the team now because it was 6 years ago that they tanked)

MJL, given that you equate 6 years with never, would you support a petition to change the famous phrase to" "quoth the raven, six years more?"
- PT21

Here is what I know. I know what it means when a statement is made of " I would not support the Flyers tanking". I know that means that I would not support the action of tanking by the Flyers. Pretty simple. I have not at any time in conversation with you commented on the Sixers tanking. You took a simple post of "go Sixers" and are trying to make it into something. I also know what a simple sports idiom is and what it implied. Your post here cements that the idiom posted was accurate and appropriate. As you escalate this ad-hominen attack further and further, it becomes more and more true.

I feel like a lot of people on here think staying the course is the best way to go about this, I just can’t see it. Why wouldn’t you try to unload these vets this off-season and suffer for a few years? You trade couturier, he will get a haul, get rid of one of jvr/jake in the Seattle draft and then ask G about the NMC (if he waived he could get a nice return as well). Suffer for 2-3 years and with those draft picks, the return from Coots and maybe G, and the slew of young guys we have on the roster now, we would probably be in that spot where we can start seriously competing.
- ClaudeFather

Yeah I think honestly hexy should’ve done that years ago. The return would’ve been immense. With having to unload all those bad contracts and having the worse farm system by far in league it really would’ve been perfect time to do it.

Here is what I know. I know what it means when a statement is made of " I would not support the Flyers tanking". I know that means that I would not support the action of tanking by the Flyers. Pretty simple. I have not at any time in conversation with you commented on the Sixers tanking. You took a simple post of "go Sixers" and are trying to make it into something. I also know what a simple sports idiom is and what it implied. Your post here cements that the idiom posted was accurate and appropriate. As you escalate this ad-hominen attack further and further, it becomes more and more true.
- MJL

who wasnt ready for a role last year? because everyone looked perfectly capable the year before. Maybe 24 yr old Meyers?

Myers was the only "young" player elevated to a role he wasn't ready to handle.
- hello it's me 2050

And meyers looked like he was ready the season before

2 years away from being a contender. Flyers motto for a decade.
- hello it's me 2050

2 more years!! Playoff bubble team for a decade and counting...
- ClaudeFather

oh you're the same person

who wasnt ready for a role last year? because everyone looked perfectly capable the year before. Maybe 24 yr old Meyers?
- bradster

Myers, Hart, Sanheim. Braun had to play in a role he wasn't fully suited for. It wasn't as much the role as the situations they had to play in while in that role. The complete team breakdown in all areas greatly affected almost every young player on the team. Older more experienced players are able to work through it. Young players tend to suffer from it and falter. Myers and Hart got to the point where it looked like they couldn't even play. Sanheim, Konecny, Provorov, Hart all struggled.

Myers, Hart, Sanheim. Braun had to play in a role he wasn't fully suited for. It wasn't as much the role as the situations they had to play in while in that role. The complete team breakdown in all areas greatly affected almost every young player on the team.
- MJL

HAHAHA, easy to say now after they S#$@% the bed isnt it, they all looked perfectly capable the year before, and meyers was awful so had to move Braun up. But i was totally on board with fletcher and thought we would only get better.

HAHAHA, easy to say now after they S#$@% the bed isnt it, they all looked perfectly capable the year before, and meyers was awful so had to move Braun up. But i was totally on board with fletcher and thought we would only get better.
- bradster

The Flyers played with a stronger team game and structure the year before. This past season, every area of team structure was woefully deficient. Forecheck and F3 position, neutral zone forecheck, D zone coverage, breakout, puck management. All was woeful. They only thing they did well was score early in the season.

Appreciate the video….let’s hope there’s more of that going forward. I hate being negative all the time on a young guy….but his lack of compete most night this year, really tried my patience.
- landros 2

Maybe he needs to watch this to get his confidence back! All of these goals where scored from the slot/ front of the net. That’s like most goals but you have to be in those areas on a more consistent basis.
I hope he has a good off season getting in shape, building his strength and gets back to the player we have seen at times.

Nolan Patrick, Morgan Frost, Phillip Myers, Travis Konecny, Issac Ratcliffe, German Rubstov, and Carter Hart need to grow into the players we all hoped they would be. At least 2-4 are needed to be big contributors to make the Flyers a good team.

Here is what I know. I know what it means when a statement is made of " I would not support the Flyers tanking". I know that means that I would not support the action of tanking by the Flyers. Pretty simple. I have not at any time in conversation with you commented on the Sixers tanking. You took a simple post of "go Sixers" and are trying to make it into something. I also know what a simple sports idiom is and what it implied. Your post here cements that the idiom posted was accurate and appropriate. As you escalate this ad-hominen attack further and further, it becomes more and more true.
- MJL

Support or non support of “tanking” is not sport specific. It’s a philosophy you either believe in and support or you don’t. You obviously have no problem with tank philosophy if you still support 76ers who clearly tanked. And that’s fine. Admit it and move on. Just say you would still support flyers if they tank

Maybe he needs to watch this to get his confidence back! All of these goals where scored from the slot/ front of the net. That’s like most goals but you have to be in those areas on a more consistent basis.
I hope he has a good off season getting in shape, building his strength and gets back to the player we have seen at times.

Nolan Patrick, Morgan Frost, Phillip Myers, Travis Konecny, Issac Ratcliffe, German Rubstov, and Carter Hart need to grow into the players we all hoped they would be. At least 2-4 are needed to be big contributors to make the Flyers a good team.
- Hosher12

You forgot the first round miss Jay Obrien

Just putting this out there… using Edmonton/Buffalo as examples of failed tank is severally flawed

1) anything chirelli related is skewed

2) Murray fuc$ed up tank by blowing picks and giving huge contracts trying to speed the rebuild up way too quickly

I have some comments about this, which again I am not disputing your analysis of, not being antagonistic, just challenging you ...

1. NoPa was the # 1 ranked North American skater in the final rankings of NHL central scouting. One can dispute the #1 ranking, but based on everything I have read, almost no one disputed a top 5 ranking. The things you point out, if they were so obvious, why did virtually every pro who makes their living from this sort of thing miss it?
- PT21

If he didn't miss so much time pre-draft, I think the book on him would have been a bit more complete. Even then, for 18-yos, you just assume they'll keep getting better and better.

Personally, if I were a scout, I'd be especially wary of anybody who's already basically in their adult body pre-draft. It distorts so much.

2. By legs, I assume you mean skating. Most analysis of NoPa seemed to me to say he was an above average skater. Many said he had "great wheels":
https://futureconsiderati....ca/player/nolan-patrick/
- PT21

His skating has always had that weird hunched-over thing that kinda took away from his speed. He's not slow, tho. Just not fast/shifty enough to beat anybody w/ his legs at this level.

3. Do you realize you make this exact same comment about many players? That they essentially float around in open space and are 1-dimensional snipers, who were able to get away with it with smaller peers in non-pro competition. Two examples: Patrick Laine and Isaac Ratcliffe are players you said this about. Further, based on your well known preferences for people like Marner and Ghost and so on, is it possible you are biased against a certain kind of game, which is kind of more north south and which might be what a bigger kid in the juniors is more apt to demonstrate?
- PT21

Never said Patrick was a sniper, nor one-dimensional. Patrick can't score from distance, Laine can. Patrick tries to do the work without the puck, Laine doesn't even bother half the time. Fundamentally different players with different flaws, even if they both get criticized for not going to the net enough.

Laine is not somebody you can win with, IMO. NP, if he gets his poop together, I think he can be an important cog still.

I do have a bias toward overlooked/underrated finesse forwards. Not gonna argue that.

If he didn't miss so much time pre-draft, I think the book on him would have been a bit more complete. Even then, for 18-yos, you just assume they'll keep getting better and better.

Personally, if I were a scout, I'd be especially wary of anybody who's already basically in their adult body pre-draft. It distorts so much.



His skating has always had that weird hunched-over thing that kinda took away from his speed. He's not slow, tho. Just not fast/shifty enough to beat anybody w/ his legs at this level.



Never said Patrick was a sniper, nor one-dimensional. Patrick can't score from distance, Laine can. Patrick tries to do the work without the puck, Laine doesn't even bother half the time. Fundamentally different players with different flaws, even if they both get criticized for not going to the net enough.

Laine is not somebody you can win with, IMO. NP, if he gets his poop together, I think he can be an important cog still.

I do have a bias toward overlooked/underrated finesse forwards. Not gonna argue that.
- Tomahawk

def if he can pull it together he will be important, flyers need him to be, even if its 70% of what we thought when we drafted him, ill take it

def if he can pull it together he will be important, flyers need him to be, even if its 70% of what we thought when we drafted him, ill take it
- bradster

IMO 70% is out of the question already.

I was thinking more third-line role player, pitch in a dozen goals, get his defensive game together, provide some steady leadership.

Basically Shjon Podein

def if he can pull it together he will be important, flyers need him to be, even if its 70% of what we thought when we drafted him, ill take it
- bradster

I would be ecstatic with 70% of what was thought.

IMO 70% is out of the question already.

I was thinking more third-line role player, pitch in a dozen goals, get his defensive game together, provide some steady leadership.

Basically Shjon Podein
- Tomahawk

i guess it depends what you thought he would be before, i thought maybe 65-70points tops, i think he can reach 70% of that, but ask me after this season if i still think that.....or after the first month

IMO 70% is out of the question already.

I was thinking more third-line role player, pitch in a dozen goals, get his defensive game together, provide some steady leadership.
- Tomahawk

Same as I thought. I was hoping he could be a 3rd line two way center. Unfortunately, he didn't show anything last season. I'm hoping that the team situation really affected him last season. That's just a blind hope at this point. I think his issue in in his head. I don't think he has the confidence in himself physically to play all out.

Just putting this out there… using Edmonton/Buffalo as examples of failed tank is severally flawed

1) anything chirelli related is skewed

2) Murray fuc$ed up tank by blowing picks and giving huge contracts trying to speed the rebuild up way too quickly
- Stayin alive

you're right the flyers are too incompetent to win the cup with just not good enough teams they'll be horrible at a real tank