Buffalo and Edmonton are two examples of organizations who were completely mismanaged. I don't think they're a good example of "the norm" when it comes to rebuilding....yet everyone and their brother uses them as an example.
- DraftandDestroy

Its just to show its not a guarantee. We can maybe throw arizona in there lol.

How tied are we to our 1st round pick this year? #13. Some people say that this is a deep draft and the #13 could be a legit player. But if we have a chance to package it for top D help, don't we pull the trigger?

Can anyone comment on strength of this draft class?

My issue with NoPa is his compete level. He has yet to assert himself in games. I can't question the skill set because it hasn't really been on full display yet. If he had a little more fire, he could be a solid top 6 forward IMO. Top 2 centerman on this team.

Imagine if he had the same intensity as TK. I don't think we've seen everything from NoPa yet. I'm ready to give him one more year to prove it.
- cdearth23

this

I was hoping watching Allison come in and start to get minutes would light a fire under him. He has skill, we have seen it in the past, but he just floats around out there.

How tied are we to our 1st round pick this year? #13. Some people say that this is a deep draft and the #13 could be a legit player. But if we have a chance to package it for top D help, don't we pull the trigger?

Can anyone comment on strength of this draft class?
- cdearth23

From what ive heard it is average at best, it lacks the high end stars, but has a good bunch of good nhl player potential

Not necessarily, though, right? One may define success as more than just beating the average, which is what you used as the benchmark.
- PT21

Is it really necessary to be on here for hours to nitpick everything. We get it, you are the smartest guy in the room

Is it really necessary to be on here for hours to nitpick everything. We get it, you are the smartest guy in the room
- Angus4444

theres a couple on here like that. like you cant have a difference of opinion

Its just to show its not a guarantee. We can maybe throw arizona in there lol.
- bradster

And what does staying the course here adding a guy or two this off-season guarantee?

And what does staying the course here adding a guy or two this off-season guarantee?
- ClaudeFather

2 years away from being a contender. Flyers motto for a decade.

this

I was hoping watching Allison come in and start to get minutes would light a fire under him. He has skill, we have seen it in the past, but he just floats around out there.
- MBFlyerfan

Hopefully he gets a full summer of training and realizes that he needs to nut up.

I agree with everyone wanting to move vets, but other teams have to agree to the deals. We can probably package Jake/JVR in a deal (whoever isn't selected by Seattle) but what's the return? Who replaces the point production? Who replaces the laziness on D? Kidding.

I always liked the teams that had veteran forward depth. That's why I didn't mind Nate Thompson and Pitlick last year. Jimmy Dowd, Joel Otto, etc. It has to be a good mix. Not everyone in the line-up should or will score 30 goals.

And what does staying the course here adding a guy or two this off-season guarantee?
- ClaudeFather

Its a risk also. Thats the beauty of sports. I guess it depends who you add, pros are easier to adjust to than drafting kids and hoping they develop into what you think

Its a risk also. Thats the beauty of sports. I guess it depends who you add, pros are easier to adjust to than drafting kids and hoping they develop into what you think
- bradster

2 more years!! Playoff bubble team for a decade and counting...

Darcy Kuemper, any interest in pursuing him to battle it out with Hart? Only has 1 year left so wont have to commit long term. Will have to give up assets unlike a free agent signing.

What free agents you see interested knowing Hart is the golden child?

Its just to show its not a guarantee. We can maybe throw arizona in there lol.
- bradster

Of course not, however, with a competent management system you're chances are pretty damn good that you'll be better for having gone through it. The Flyers organization has assets, they also have a competent experienced management structure as well as great consultants working for the organization.

Edmonton, Buffalo and Arizona, who's probably a worse example than Edmonton or Buffalo with their 20 years of ownership, building and management issues, are the three outliers....as I said, they aren't an example of the norm.

Just look at the past 20 Stanley Cup winners, all of them had their own high draft picks in their lineup's. Even Boston had Seguin who was second overall who helped them in 2011. You don't have to be in the bottom forever. Unfortunately we had gift shot at it with Patrick and they missed....fug!

You need those difference makers that you only find high in the draft! Obviously there are several parts to building a winner, that's just one of them.

My issue with NoPa is his compete level. He has yet to assert himself in games. I can't question the skill set because it hasn't really been on full display yet. If he had a little more fire, he could be a solid top 6 forward IMO. Top 2 centerman on this team.

Imagine if he had the same intensity as TK. I don't think we've seen everything from NoPa yet. I'm ready to give him one more year to prove it.
- cdearth23

I am hoping this is correlated with his fear of being hit in the head, which I strongly suspect is correlated with fear of PCS.

Just a hope.

Of course not, however, with a competent management system you're chances are pretty damn good that you'll be better for having gone through it. The Flyers organization has assets, they also have a competent experienced management structure as well as great consultants working for the organization.

Edmonton, Buffalo and Arizona, who's probably a worse example than Edmonton or Buffalo with their 20 years of ownership, building and management issues, are the three outliers....as I said, they aren't an example of the norm.

Just look at the past 20 Stanley Cup winners, all of them had their own high draft picks in their lineup's. Even Boston had Seguin who was second overall who helped them in 2011. You don't have to be in the bottom forever. Unfortunately we had gift shot at it with Patrick and they missed....fug!

You need those difference makers that you only find high in the draft! Obviously there are several parts to building a winner, that's just one of them.
- DraftandDestroy

Well said, I think we are in the ideal position to rebuild, some young players that could be key contributors later on are on the team and have shown promise and we also have some decent unknowns in guys like Frost York forester , the time is now.

Hopefully he gets a full summer of training and realizes that he needs to nut up.

I agree with everyone wanting to move vets, but other teams have to agree to the deals. We can probably package Jake/JVR in a deal (whoever isn't selected by Seattle) but what's the return? Who replaces the point production? Who replaces the laziness on D? Kidding.

I always liked the teams that had veteran forward depth. That's why I didn't mind Nate Thompson and Pitlick last year. Jimmy Dowd, Joel Otto, etc. It has to be a good mix. Not everyone in the line-up should or will score 30 goals.
- cdearth23

I wonder about this as well. There are not many teams out there with the cap space to trade for Jake or JVR (where it makes sense for them to do so) without us having to take similar salary back in the deal. And will that help us? Other than a "culture change" which could mean a thousand different things good and bad. I doubt you get back similar production in any deal you make.

Its not that easy with a flat cap and no sign of when it will go up. We need changes, but I think many people are going to be disappointed with the amount/impact of said changes. At least for the short term.

Thank you! Its all you here and is the worst example to use
- ClaudeFather

The other thing that bugs me is that in those 2 examples, its not the pick high strategy that failed. Each got enough franchise players at least to build a serious contender. It is that subsequent signings were poor. And the last, it happens to many other clubs who don't rebuild. By people conflate tanking + poor signings to conclude that that tanking does not work.

Its just to show its not a guarantee. We can maybe throw arizona in there lol.
- bradster

Florida, Islanders, Ottawa, Atlanta, Minnesota.... all those teams spent a lot of years taking lottery talent with no results.

Does recent New Jersey look remotely like they're ready to put anything together? Jack Hughes could soon be the 3rd-best Hughes in the NHL lol.

Rangers get talked about like they're guaranteed a Cup in the future, but I'll believe it when I see it. Kakko, Laf and Kravtsov are still more hype than anything. Lias Andersson was a total disaster since draft day. Adam Fox looks like a god right now, but so did Tony De'Angelo last season, and so did Ghost after his rookie year. No guarantees.

If you believe the Toronto fans and media, that team is a dead end.

There are a lot of examples of bottoming out leading nowhere.

I am hoping this is correlated with his fear of being hit in the head, which I strongly suspect is correlated with fear of PCS.

Just a hope.
- PT21

Me too. And I am hoping that some of the hits he took, the puck to the head, etc help him move forward as he was ok after they happened.

Confidence is everything to any type of performer. I see a guy with none.

Is it really necessary to be on here for hours to nitpick everything. We get it, you are the smartest guy in the room
- Angus4444

I don't nitpick, pho-pho. The point was a valid one in the context, and also had a larger meaning, which I explained.

If you find my posts too... mentally challenging ... then don't read them.

I wonder about this as well. There are not many teams out there with the cap space to trade for Jake or JVR (where it makes sense for them to do so) without us having to take similar salary back in the deal. And will that help us? Other than a "culture change" which could mean a thousand different things good and bad. I doubt you get back similar production in any deal you make.

Its not that easy with a flat cap and no sign of when it will go up. We need changes, but I think many people are going to be disappointed with the amount/impact of said changes. At least for the short term.
- MBFlyerfan

I think everyone will be disappointed with the return for Jake. Plus, we would potentially have to eat some of his salary. We relied on the young players contributing more this season and they let us down. We are asking for more of the same next season. Plus Seattle might ask for a pick or prospect in exchange for taking a vet.

What I'm trying to say is even if we ship some of the dead weight out, we still need to look to our younger guys to step the f up.

The other thing that bugs me is that in those 2 examples, its not the pick high strategy that failed. Each got enough franchise players at least to build a serious contender. It is that subsequent signings were poor. And the last, it happens to many other clubs who don't rebuild. By people conflate tanking + poor signings to conclude that that tanking does not work.
- PT21

Right...they achieved what they should've, they got franchise players with their high draft picks, but their management didn't have the ability to surround those core franchise players with a supporting cast, which is the primary issues in both Edmonton and Buffalo.

Florida, Islanders, Ottawa, Atlanta, Minnesota.... all those teams spent a lot of years taking lottery talent with no results.

Does recent New Jersey look remotely like they're ready to put anything together? Jack Hughes could soon be the 3rd-best Hughes in the NHL lol.

Rangers get talked about like they're guaranteed a Cup in the future, but I'll believe it when I see it. Kakko, Laf and Kravtsov are still more hype than anything. Lias Andersson was a total disaster since draft day. Adam Fox looks like a god right now, but so did Tony De'Angelo last season, and so did Ghost after his rookie year. No guarantees.

If you believe the Toronto fans and media, that team is a dead end.

There are a lot of examples of bottoming out leading nowhere.
- Tomahawk

agreed

Florida, Islanders, Ottawa, Atlanta, Minnesota.... all those teams spent a lot of years taking lottery talent with no results.

Does recent New Jersey look remotely like they're ready to put anything together? Jack Hughes could soon be the 3rd-best Hughes in the NHL lol.

Rangers get talked about like they're guaranteed a Cup in the future, but I'll believe it when I see it. Kakko, Laf and Kravtsov are still more hype than anything. Lias Andersson was a total disaster since draft day. Adam Fox looks like a god right now, but so did Tony De'Angelo last season, and so did Ghost after his rookie year. No guarantees.

If you believe the Toronto fans and media, that team is a dead end.

There are a lot of examples of bottoming out leading nowhere.
- Tomahawk

Dude, there are a 'lot of examples' of every single strategy misfiring.


How many teams that did NOT tank have won the cup?

I wonder about this as well. There are not many teams out there with the cap space to trade for Jake or JVR (where it makes sense for them to do so) without us having to take similar salary back in the deal. And will that help us? Other than a "culture change" which could mean a thousand different things good and bad. I doubt you get back similar production in any deal you make.

Its not that easy with a flat cap and no sign of when it will go up. We need changes, but I think many people are going to be disappointed with the amount/impact of said changes. At least for the short term.
- MBFlyerfan

ready to take that chance good or bad as have seen enough from the incumbents.