Not every team has the resources and track-record of committed ownership that the Flyers have had. A third of the league was borderline insolvent before the salary cap. There have been some pretty terrible/stingy owners with some teams.

Flyers have always been extremely generous with their players... and players notice that.
- Tomahawk

times have changed. What your saying was true, not so sure it applies anymore. Always will be crap owners and what not. More are in line to what Snider was while he was alive imo.

You were making progress just 2-3 days ago, when you looked at the playoffs and said you were coming to the realization that a total rebuild was necessary. You are regressing again.

Joking aside, many posters I respect here, like you and Landros2 and some others, talk about treading for 'the right mix'. After carefully reading your posts over some time, I have come to the conclusion that you guys have either

1. Not thought things through
2. Are looking at examples or have ideas in your head that are not in sync by the Flyers current situation or past playoff history in the NHL.
3. Are wildly projecting best case scenarios for young players.

Re: the last, not doing a complete rebuild would mean, for sure that you keep Couts. You are stuck with Hayes. Your young guns are not gonna suddenly flip a switch and become studs in the next 2 years. Some are frankly fightlng for their NHL lives.

So, look forwards 2 years or more later. Now, what was the last time two centers aged 30ish+ anchored a cup winning team with key trades? What are these trades? Who is giving us all the players we need for any style you would have them play?
- PT21

What I meant by the other post is that the Flyers need a significant change in philosophy in terms of what they value in players. The Flyers IMO should be focused on getting faster, more skilled and a lot tougher. Right now IMO they are not even close. The question becomes, do the Flyers need to blow up everything and tank for 5 season straight in order to increase their odds of getting great players and even a generational player? I'm not sure we are at this point yet. I would like to see Fletcher have an offseason where he significantly shakes up the chemistry and make up of this team first to see if it can be salvaged. If it can't, then blowing up and starting over will be the only option. However right now I still believe the Flyers can win around a core of Couturier, Giroux, Hayes, Hart, Provorov and Farabee. They key will be getting out from under the other core contracts in order to have the ability to improve this team.

times have changed. What your saying was true, not so sure it applies anymore. Always will be crap owners and what not. More are in line to what Snider was while he was alive imo.
- hello it's me 2050

Flyers seem unchanged post-Snider in terms of all that. MLSE didn't change after Rogers and Bell bought majority stakes.

And at the end of the day, it's about perception and reputation.

Yes money being the same. Thing is I am not talking about Carolina. Talking about Philly. I do not see him in any way coming to philly. Nor do I see any top premier free agent signing unless a total overpay. flyers just aint the same top destination they were in the past.

Tell me what does Philly have to offer? Your the GM let me hear your pitch to Hamilton.
- hello it's me 2050

So you agree with me?

My pitch would be, "here is a lot more money than those other teams offered". Pretty simple.

Maybe he has some connection to Philly that changes that? All I was saying was that Carolina is not a more favorable destination than Philly for an FA. Hamilton may resign there but that's not because he would never play in Philly. It's because he is comfortable in Carolina. Most players sign where comfortable unless incentives warrant not signing there.

Flyers seem unchanged post-Snider in terms of all that. MLSE didn't change after Rogers and Bell bought majority stakes.

And at the end of the day, it's about perception and reputation.
- Tomahawk

Other teams have changed and replicate what Snider did in terms of players treatment. Very few imo treat them horribly.

No idea if it has changed within the flyers. Though with hiring of lappy guess the incest continues lol.

There is no such thing as a team in the Flyers position as having too many prospects. Are you seriously posting that the Flyers are a team that is in a win now position and should be trading top level prospects because they have a surplus? I would definitely give up a first round pick for the right player but not to payoff Seattle to pick a player in expansion. The scouts have done plenty of work to be able to make an informed pick in the draft.
- MJL

But paying off Seattle to take Jake gives you the capital to go out and sign that right player. We can agree that Jake is certainly not the right player for this team right now, and there is guarantee the 13th pick will turn out to anything at all, hello Nolan Patrick and German Rubtsov. This is also not a reportedly deep draft, which means picking at 13th in the 1st round may be no different then picking up in the 2nd round. Fletcher needs to be bold and take risks, otherwise we will be stuck watching the same crap for 3 more years at least, only with a different head coach because I am sure AV will want out if has has another season like this last one.

No that’s not then extent. Every addition to the roster should come with an expected game’s improvement. The biggest +Wins replacement is the second goalie imo. If the goaltending is the same caliber as last year it doesn’t matter who you add.

You’ll still need to add to be a cup contender but improving in the net is critical.
- mayorofangrytown

MOAT, you are assuming that the path to NHL playoff success is stead improvement, and eventually being at the top. Like climbing a ladder.

But I suggest to you that it is not one dimensional like that. I drew a little picture to illustrate what I believe the dynamics are. Hopefully it will avoid the need for the 1000 words.

But paying off Seattle to take Jake gives you the capital to go out and sign that right player. We can agree that Jake is certainly not the right player for this team right now, and there is guarantee the 13th pick will turn out to anything at all, hello Nolan Patrick and German Rubtsov. This is also not a reportedly deep draft, which means picking at 13th in the 1st round may be no different then picking up in the 2nd round. Fletcher needs to be bold and take risks, otherwise we will be stuck watching the same crap for 3 more years at least, only with a different head coach because I am sure AV will want out if has has another season like this last one.
- jd250

The Flyers should not pay any assets to Seattle. Submit their protection list and go about their business. There are good risks and bad risks. Who is that right player? There are really only two players in free agency who might fit that right player. I'm not counting Ovechkin. Both of them are more likely to re-sign with their current team than come to the Flyers. I'm not giving up the 13th pick to pay Seattle to take Voracek. It's too valuable of a pick.

the incest continues lol.
- hello it's me 2050

Guaranteed.

The thing fans complain the most about is probably one of the single biggest draws for prospective UFAs.

Dougie's a weird one tho. Aside from the museum memes, nobody really has any sense of what he's looking for.

So you agree with me?

My pitch would be, "here is a lot more money than those other teams offered". Pretty simple.

Maybe he has some connection to Philly that changes that? All I was saying was that Carolina is not a more favorable destination than Philly for an FA. Hamilton may resign there but that's not because he would never play in Philly. It's because he is comfortable in Carolina. Most players sign where comfortable unless incentives warrant not signing there.
- mickel25

Agree with you on what? If offered a crap ton more they likely come to the flyers? Then yes

Again it has nothing to do with Carolina being a destination. I do not think Hamilton will come to philly because the state of the team and franchise. Same i dont think any top free agent will.

Did you see what Landekog said, at least I think it was him. Something along the lines of every year its about next year. I want to win. tired of waiting.

The Flyers should not pay any assets to Seattle. Submit their protection list and go about their business. There are good risks and bad risks. Who is that right player? There are really only two players in free agency who might fit that right player. I'm not counting Ovechkin. Both of them are more likely to re-sign with their current team than come to the Flyers. I'm not giving up the 13th pick to pay Seattle to take Voracek. It's too valuable of a pick.
- MJL

I would think everyone saw what happened with Vegas, trying to make sure they pick a certain player rarely worked out and on few occasions downright awful

- PT21

You have the art style and penmanship of a serial killer.

You have the art style and penmanship of a serial killer.
- Tomahawk

I would think everyone saw what happened with Vegas, trying to make sure they pick a certain player rarely worked out and on few occasions downright awful
- ClaudeFather

haha one of those occasions was because of fletcher. if he hasn't learned from his mistakes i hope he's not the gm of this team for very long.

From yesterday’s thread:


As someone who only began watching hockey in the last two decades, I appreciate the recollections of others in these cases. Even when I started watching, I didn’t know the draft/trade history of most players. Anyway, thanks!
- NC Flyers Fan

Remember though, we were talking about winning the cup in the time span of our bet, which has 3 years or so to go. Stevens just about fits that bill. In the case of Chelios, Rafalski, Murphy, they joined an already existing superstar Lidstrom. Nidermayer and Pronger fit the bill precisely, fine point taken, forgot about them. I remember that series well, and Mr. Lady Byng Alfredsson firing a puck right at Niedermayer's upper body (he missed). However, that team had a young Getzlaf and Perry on the cusp of their prime. Who is our equivalent?

Note though: even if these examples are granted, how few they are. I never said Flyers win a cup is impossible. I just said it is exceedingly unlikely.

Agree with you on what? If offered a crap ton more they likely come to the flyers? Then yes

Again it has nothing to do with Carolina being a destination. I do not think Hamilton will come to philly because the state of the team and franchise. Same i dont think any top free agent will.

Did you see what Landekog said, at least I think it was him. Something along the lines of every year its about next year. I want to win. tired of waiting.
- hello it's me 2050

Landeskog said that about the Flyers?

He probably said that about the AVS. You know the team that is a top contender in the NHL and hasn't advanced past the second round. What is your fixation with the second round?

So the captain of the AVS is not resigning there because he is "tired of waiting"? He might be able to console himself in the fact they lost to the champs if VGK wins the cup.

What I meant by the other post is that the Flyers need a significant change in philosophy in terms of what they value in players. The Flyers IMO should be focused on getting faster, more skilled and a lot tougher. Right now IMO they are not even close. The question becomes, do the Flyers need to blow up everything and tank for 5 season straight in order to increase their odds of getting great players and even a generational player? I'm not sure we are at this point yet. I would like to see Fletcher have an offseason where he significantly shakes up the chemistry and make up of this team first to see if it can be salvaged. If it can't, then blowing up and starting over will be the only option. However right now I still believe the Flyers can win around a core of Couturier, Giroux, Hayes, Hart, Provorov and Farabee. They key will be getting out from under the other core contracts in order to have the ability to improve this team.
- jd250

Yes they are. If it was just Couturier, I would say ok maybe not. But Couts +Hayes, and their age, and the absence of a true upcoming game changing type star in the horizon, makes alternative paths very improbable.

haha one of those occasions was because of fletcher. if he hasn't learned from his mistakes i hope he's not the gm of this team for very long.
- Ftown19125

Haha yes, of all people our guy should know

Landeskog said that about the Flyers?

He probably said that about the AVS. You know the team that is a top contender in the NHL and hasn't advanced past the second round. What is your fixation with the second round?

So the captain of the AVS is not resigning there because he is "tired of waiting"? He might be able to console himself in the fact they lost to the champs if VGK wins the cup.
- mickel25

It was Mackinnon. About Avs.

Their young defense capitulated under playoff pressure. They are exceedingly young. Graves, Towes are like 26 or so and Makar and Girard are like 23. Bowens and Timmins are upcoming.

Landeskog said that about the Flyers?

He probably said that about the AVS. You know the team that is a top contender in the NHL and hasn't advanced past the second round. What is your fixation with the second round?

So the captain of the AVS is not resigning there because he is "tired of waiting"? He might be able to console himself in the fact they lost to the champs if VGK wins the cup.
- mickel25

It actually was McKinnon who said he is entering his 9th season and he hasn't won squat. It had zero to do with the Flyers.

It was Mackinnon. About Avs.

Their young defense capitulated under playoff pressure. They are exceedingly young. Graves, Towes are like 26 or so and Makar and Girard are like 23. Bowens and Timmins are upcoming.
- PT21

All the elite players that the Avs have, how could this have happened? They lost to the better two way team and the apparently "non elite" Mark Stone.

All the elite players that the Avs have, how could this have happened? They lost to the better two way team and the apparently "non elite" Mark Stone.
- MJL

I know right?

"On June 14, 2019, the Flyers swapped veteran defenseman Radko Gudas with the Washington Capitals in a one-on-one exchange for veteran defenseman Matt Niskanen."

Looking back on this, was this a good trade or not? Sure Niskanen was great for one year, and meaningless year... Gudas was not as gifted offensively as Niskanen, but hard hitting and fairly responsible stay at home defenseman. Salaries Niskanen $5.7M versus Gudas $2.5M. If Niskanen would have stayed around a bit longer I don't think this is a question. I'm leaning toward a bad trade now, not at the time.
- leon neon

Somewhat bad trade in and of itself:

+: Told us what sort of stability might be needed for Provorov (informational value)
-: inadequate in playoffs, probably worsened our draft position by 10 places in meaningless regular season.

I know right?
- mickel25

And who was it, you moron, who ever said anything to the contrary?

It was Mackinnon. About Avs.

Their young defense capitulated under playoff pressure. They are exceedingly young. Graves, Towes are like 26 or so and Makar and Girard are like 23. Bowens and Timmins are upcoming.
- PT21

Pretty sure mackinnon went 3 games pointless or 2 in that series , plenty of blame to go around