I honestly still am not sure if the solution is "legitimate top pair RHD" or best fit for this team makeup.

This is not a knock on Niskanen, but he wasn't a #1 top pair guy, what he was, was a good partner for a #1 guy.

Maybe what this team needs is a Therien to Dejardins or a Carle to Timonen type player. Neither would be considered top pair dmen, but they were good partners for top pair dmen.

A guy who can be the right partner for Provorov like Niskanen was. If it is a top pair 8 million a season type player so be it. But maybe it just needs to be a solid veteran who can play 20 minutes a night riding shotgun to Provorov, thus allowing the other pairs to be slotted correctly.

Im just saying that perhaps that hole on the top pair can be filled with a few types of options while allowing us to fill other holes as well.
- MBFlyerfan

Yes, this is what I have saying also. I don't think the answer to the Flyers' problems are signing big FAs like Hamilton or trading for Jones. Right now IMO the Flyers have 1 true top 4 defenseman: Ivan Provorov. Travis Sanhiem and Ghost right now are borderline top 4, while Haag, Braun, Myers, Morin are all bottom pairing guys currently. York, Attard, and Zamula are all up and coming defenseman. So you see where the gap is, the Flyers really need more true top 4 defenders. That is why I have been posting that they need to acquire two true top 4 defenders via trade or FA this offseason to significantly improve in this area.

I also believe the Flyers need to change their defensive zone coverage scheme. I would like them to get away from 5 player man to man coverage, and go to a hybrid model where their forwards play man to man but the D stay focused on slot and corner coverage.

Ah that’s my bad, thought he was a righty. Not sure about Seattle. I think Dunn is a RFA and I forget how RFAs work with the ED.
- arichardson22

Seattle can pick RFAs, even UFAs. IIRC, they get exclusive negotiating window prior to the expansion draft to talk contract before committing their picks to them.

Edit, here's the timeline:

They are much better than the Flyers? So getting to the second round is the new barometer?

I stated in another response that players are human. If money is the same why would he choose to play in a place he is not familiar with?

Of course the Flyers and probably most other teams, would need to pay extra to get Hamilton.
- mickel25

Yes they are much better. Not sure how you can argue otherwise. Losing to the cup champs is not a bad deal. Funny you say they have no goaltending. Yet the flyers were dead last.

Besides money what else do you think will factor into a players decision to sign with a team?

Looking at raw totals is a bad way to evaluate anything, night in and night out he was sloppy with the puck and made turnovers we are not prone to seeing with him. He did not have a good season, asked to do a lot but he was part of the problem all year.
- ClaudeFather

Did the defense drag down Provorov or did Provorov drag down the defense? Bill’s blog stated that each defender was graded individually, so I responded accordingly. Provorov in my books was a B+ at minimum with everything considered. The same cannot be said for the rest of the defense who doesn’t see nearly as much time as Provorov.

Besides money what else do you think will factor into a players decision to sign with a team?
- hello it's me 2050

Flyers are known as a team that treats their players extremely well. Even after players hang it up they're always part of the family. So that means alumni stuff, but also post-playing career opportunities (see: all the ex-Flyers in broadcasting, management, coaching, scouting, etc).

That stuff means a whole lot to players, especially when they're dawning on the second half of their careers.

The Flyers don't really have any "terrible" contracts. Voracek is tougher to trade due to the flat cap. But not impossible to trade. So, if they added an asset to get Seattle to take him I would be ok with that. I do not like adding assets to trades to rid yourself of players as a regular practice though.

JVR's guaranteed 25 goals is really tradable. They might need to eat $1-2mil to get it done but I am fine with that. That's just money. He also has one more year after this year. That's not longterm.
- mickel25

What level asset do you think they would have to add to get Seattle to take Voracek?

Money talks as well. Are we forgetting AV took this coaching job expecting to win?
- arichardson22

Yes, but you have to have money to talk, right? The Flyers will get some relief next season, by getting $4.5M back from previous buyouts and trades. However Hart and Sanheim are due new contracts now and Couturier will be due a new contract for significantly more money after next season. This why I posted previously the Flyers need to free significant cap space in order to sign anyone that would really make a difference here. It all comes down to what Seattle does in the ED and what Fletcher can do in the trade market.

Won't Dunn likely end up in Seattle?

And Flyers do really need a righty for sealing the boards, one-time option, etc. If they fail to get a righty, then just keep rolling w/ Ghost (aka tell AV to quit scratching him).
- Tomahawk

I'd like them to give lower mid level deal to Hakanpaa to replace Braun.

I honestly still am not sure if the solution is "legitimate top pair RHD" or best fit for this team makeup.

This is not a knock on Niskanen, but he wasn't a #1 top pair guy, what he was, was a good partner for a #1 guy.

Maybe what this team needs is a Therien to Dejardins or a Carle to Timonen type player. Neither would be considered top pair dmen, but they were good partners for top pair dmen.

A guy who can be the right partner for Provorov like Niskanen was. If it is a top pair 8 million a season type player so be it. But maybe it just needs to be a solid veteran who can play 20 minutes a night riding shotgun to Provorov, thus allowing the other pairs to be slotted correctly.

Im just saying that perhaps that hole on the top pair can be filled with a few types of options while allowing us to fill other holes as well.
- MBFlyerfan

I would love to get Hamilton on a similar deal to the one he is just finishing, but I doubt that would be possible. I would think Hamilton would be looking for $8M for 7 seasons, and there is probably a team dumb enough to pay that. Even if we did get Hamilton, that would fill the need for a 1st PP QB, but it does not make us tougher to play against in our own zone. We would still need to do a lot more to our backend. That is why I believe you sign a mid level guy like Larsson and trade for a player like Ekholm. Now you have good depth and are much harder to play against.
- jd250

Ekholm is exactly the kind of player the Flyers should not be pursuing. First of all, why is Nashville trading him? Ekholm is already on the wrong side of 30 and will need a new contract. You would have to give up a considerable asset to acquire him. What does he do for you? He won't elevate your team significantly. Flyers need to stay away from the 2nd tier type players who will just in the long run tie yo your cap. Trade or acquire true difference makers or go for low cost short term stop gap players who don't tie up future cap flexibility.

Seattle can pick RFAs, even UFAs. IIRC, they get exclusive negotiating window prior to the expansion draft to talk contract before committing their picks to them.

Edit, here's the timeline:

- Tomahawk

Awesome, thanks for sharing! Super helpful. 👍🏻

I honestly still am not sure if the solution is "legitimate top pair RHD" or best fit for this team makeup.

This is not a knock on Niskanen, but he wasn't a #1 top pair guy, what he was, was a good partner for a #1 guy.

Maybe what this team needs is a Therien to Dejardins or a Carle to Timonen type player. Neither would be considered top pair dmen, but they were good partners for top pair dmen.

A guy who can be the right partner for Provorov like Niskanen was. If it is a top pair 8 million a season type player so be it. But maybe it just needs to be a solid veteran who can play 20 minutes a night riding shotgun to Provorov, thus allowing the other pairs to be slotted correctly.

Im just saying that perhaps that hole on the top pair can be filled with a few types of options while allowing us to fill other holes as well.
- MBFlyerfan

I agree with this, i would be happy to sign some UFAs, like a martinez and savard to shore up our RHD, and keep our assets or use them for a TK to Rinehart trade

Yes, but you have to have money to talk, right? The Flyers will get some relief next season, by getting $4.5M back from previous buyouts and trades. However Hart and Sanheim are due new contracts now and Couturier will be due a new contract for significantly more money after next season. This why I posted previously the Flyers need to free significant cap space in order to sign anyone that would really make a difference here. It all comes down to what Seattle does in the ED and what Fletcher can do in the trade market.
- jd250

Sign and trade Coutourier.

Yes they are much better. Not sure how you can argue otherwise. Losing to the cup champs is not a bad deal. Funny you say they have no goaltending. Yet the flyers were dead last.

Besides money what else do you think will factor into a players decision to sign with a team?
- hello it's me 2050

So when the Flyers lost to the Cup champs in 2009, 2010 and 2011 that was ok? They also, lost to the East SCF rep in 2008 and 2012. That was ok? Were they on the right path? Were they a better team?

Flyers were bad at stopping teams from scoring last year. I think that is an anomaly. Maybe I am wrong. But as long as they lose to the eventual champs it doesn't matter right?

Again, I think players are human. They sign where they are comfortable unless given an incentive. I do not think the Hurricanes are that much better off than the Flyers. All things being equal.

I'm speculating now, but I liken the situation to the Red Sox a few years ago when they wanted to sign David Price. Price did not want to pitch in Boston but the Red Sox blew him away with a $217M contract, so much above anyone else that Price had no choice but to accept. Price put on his best happy face and said all the right things, and even won a World Series with Boston. But it quickly unraveled to a point where Boston had to ship him out to LA for practically nothing in return. I just feel like for the Flyers to get Hamilton, they would have to blow him away financially and in the end its not going to work out because I don't believe Hamilton wants to play in a tough market like Philly.
- jd250

What is the basis for forming this opinion that Hamilton doesn't want to play in a market like Philly?

I'd like them to give lower mid level deal to Hakanpaa to replace Braun.
- juiced

Dunno, he has a lot of the same weaknesses as Braun, but nowhere near the experience and willingness to eat board.

I honestly still am not sure if the solution is "legitimate top pair RHD" or best fit for this team makeup.

This is not a knock on Niskanen, but he wasn't a #1 top pair guy, what he was, was a good partner for a #1 guy.

Maybe what this team needs is a Therien to Dejardins or a Carle to Timonen type player. Neither would be considered top pair dmen, but they were good partners for top pair dmen.

A guy who can be the right partner for Provorov like Niskanen was. If it is a top pair 8 million a season type player so be it. But maybe it just needs to be a solid veteran who can play 20 minutes a night riding shotgun to Provorov, thus allowing the other pairs to be slotted correctly.

Im just saying that perhaps that hole on the top pair can be filled with a few types of options while allowing us to fill other holes as well.
- MBFlyerfan

That player is Larsson if he would sign a reasonable deal.

I can’t say I’ve seen him play much, but what a about Vince Dunn as a back up plan if we miss out on Hamilton and want an offensively minded dman? He was involved in rumors last year and appears he is again this summer.
- arichardson22

He's not better than Gostisbehere.

What level asset do you think they would have to add to get Seattle to take Voracek?
- MJL

Probably a first or second round pick to take the full contract. Generally, I am not ok with doing that. But this draft I am slightly more inclined to do it due to the randomality of it.

In the end, if I was GM I would not do it. I would not be against the Flyers doing it though.

from other thread:


- hello it's me 2050

Ah, transplantation
That's the name of the game!
Argumentation
same guys same thing again!

(with an apology to the late great Bobbby Darin)

Lets see, now, what have we here?

Flyers are known as a team that treats their players extremely well. Even after players hang it up they're always part of the family. So that means alumni stuff, but also post-playing career opportunities (see: all the ex-Flyers in broadcasting, management, coaching, scouting, etc).

That stuff means a whole lot to players, especially when they're dawning on the second half of their careers.
- Tomahawk

That's it?

Do you think other organization also offer that as well or just exclusive to the Flyers?

Ekholm is exactly the kind of player the Flyers should not be pursuing. First of all, why is Nashville trading him? Ekholm is already on the wrong side of 30 and will need a new contract. You would have to give up a considerable asset to acquire him. What does he do for you? He won't elevate your team significantly. Flyers need to stay away from the 2nd tier type players who will just in the long run tie yo your cap. Trade or acquire true difference makers or go for low cost short term stop gap players who don't tie up future cap flexibility.
- MJL

I was using Ekholm as an example of a player who could be available because I don't see how Nashville can afford to resign him while already paying Josi and Ellis and having to resign Fabbro who I understand they really like. But I am not as tied to Ekholm as I once was. However I do believe the Flyers need to add two top 4 defenders this offseason for the reasons I previously posted.

Dunno, he has a lot of the same weaknesses as Braun, but nowhere near the experience and willingness to eat board.
- Tomahawk

Thought his game made significant progress in the playoffs. Cant teach that size and physicality....and honestly not sure he'd command much money. Feel like counting on Braun to keep his legs is a sucker's bet....he gets slower by the day.

While we need a 1RHD...we also need a 2 or 3 as well now. Unless they think York can slot into #2 LHD and they just make a permanent switch of Sandman to the right side.

Dunno, he has a lot of the same weaknesses as Braun, but nowhere near the experience and willingness to eat board.
- Tomahawk

Braun was one of a few players on the team who actually played to their capabilities. I have no issues with Braun. Solid as a 3rd pair guy. Issue is they had to elevate his usage.

That's it?

Do you think other organization also offer that as well or just exclusive to the Flyers?
- hello it's me 2050

According to players, only the Rangers and Leafs have a better reputation than the Flyers in that respect.