From an article I read this morning:



I agree with the premise that you do not need a generational player to win in the playoffs, but what you do need clearly is speed, skill and tenacity. All 4 teams left in the playoffs this year have oodles of these 3 characteristics, the Flyers have very little of all 3. All things being equal I might agree that the Flyers can make some noise with only a few changes, but things are not equal. These Flyers are slow, lacking skill and have ZERO tenacity, thus I believe its going to take a lot more than just a few changes. As a result I didn't answer the poll, because it has to be more than just getting a RD1 or a scoring winger, it has to be a complete philosophical change within the organization to compete in the modern NHL era.
- jd250

You and I have had this conversation before. I made the statement in a previous post that based on last years season, it's important for the Flyers to react and fill some holes. However it is far more important that they don't overreact to the season. Watching playoff hockey is misleading when comparing it to regular season hockey. Every team is raising their game and intensity level in the playoffs. It is a better quality and more intense brand of hockey. With that being said, there has to be some context added to your statements of what the Flyers are in my opinion. As a whole, while I would not classify the Flyers as a fast team, they are also not slow. They do tend to play slow at times. When your team game and structure is not where it needs to be. When you have a poor forecheck structure, lack a neutral zone presence combined with very poor defensive zone coverage, you wind up chasing the puck a lot. You wind up defending a lot and having to spend a lot of time just trying to clear the puck out or dumping the puck to change after extending shifts. All of this will make a team constantly seem to be behind the play, chasing the puck and appear to be a slow team. This can all be fixed internally without any player change.
As far as lacking skill, it's true the Flyers don't have the high end skill that many top teams have. However they do have a good amount of skilled players.
Tenacity was definitely an issue last season. That especially reared it's head against the Rangers. The Flyers got into a huge mental funk last season, especially for a number of the young players. The were a dysfunctional mess for a lot of the season. Non-competitive in far too many games. The Flyers top veteran players such as Claude Giroux are no longer good enough players to strap the team on their backs and pull them out of it.
The coaching staff was never able to correct any of the issues that were plaguing the team. I'm a big fan and believe in Vigneault as a coach, but it was one of the worst coaching performances in Flyers history in my view. Why is an entirely different conversation in and of itself.
So I would disagree that there needs to be a complete philosophical change in the organization when it comes to style of play, which is what I think you're referring to. I would agree that they need to change what I think is going to be their approach this off season. They need to add some pieces but they need to do it in the right way and continue to focus on drafting and player development.

I don't think Glak18's reasoning is contradictory at all. You still seem to believe that the only way to get the right horses is by getting top picks, but I don't believe that is true. What Fletcher should be doing is figuring out how to clear cap space first and foremost, which he should be able to do this off season. Then use that cap space to sign the right players for today's game, players with speed, skill and most of all tenacity. I don't believe the Flyers should put all the cap space into Hamilton or trade the farm for Jones, and I'm not saying the Flyers need to get 1970's tough. Instead I would sign mid level players like Saad and Larsson, and try to become Islander or Montreal tough, skating circles around your opponents, finishing checks hard and winning tons of puck battles. So freeing cap space, spending it wisely and drafting and developing these types of players is the fastest way for this Flyers team to get back into contention.
- jd250

Back before the trade deadline when you and I were discussing what the Flyers should do, I stated that I thought the Flyers should wait until the off season to address needs. You asked me who I had interest in. I stated that Larsson was a player that I had interest in. You replied to me that Larsson was a 3rd pair defenseman who did little to help the Flyers. Now I see you're advocating for him here. I still have interest in the Larsson but only at the right cost and term. Saad is a nice player but honestly, what is the cost? I feel he is a player that has to be in the right fit and that fit isn't here.
The Flyers should approach the off season in this manner in my opinion. Attempt to acquire a difference maker such as Jones. A player who is worth the cost. If they can't do that, then bring in short term low cost veterans and stop gaps. No more middle of the pack players with high cap hits and long terms who while they would improve the team, won't get them to where they need to go. Overpaying for players like Larsson, Saad, Foligno or others will only result in the Flyers being a good team who isn't good enough that is now capped out and lack felxibility. Kevin Hayes is the perfect example. He filled a need and helped the Flyers, at least the first year, but will wind up being a role player with a high cap hit. That's exactly what the Flyers shouldn't do. No overpaying for players like Ekholm or Saad.

I can’t blame it all on the team. Hart just wasn’t good for much of the season. Didn’t Hart start off the season playing well? As I recall the team didn’t play that well but they were winning games they didn’t deserve to win partly because of Hart’s strong play.
- Dkos

No you cant blame just the team defense. Hart was equally bad and it is a major concern. To not hold him accountable at all and blame others is misguided.

TK + 2nd for Rinehart. Get it done
- bradster

I would not give up Konecny for Rinehart.

I don't think Glak18's reasoning is contradictory at all. You still seem to believe that the only way to get the right horses is by getting top picks, but I don't believe that is true. What Fletcher should be doing is figuring out how to clear cap space first and foremost, which he should be able to do this off season. Then use that cap space to sign the right players for today's game, players with speed, skill and most of all tenacity. I don't believe the Flyers should put all the cap space into Hamilton or trade the farm for Jones, and I'm not saying the Flyers need to get 1970's tough. Instead I would sign mid level players like Saad and Larsson, and try to become Islander or Montreal tough, skating circles around your opponents, finishing checks hard and winning tons of puck battles. So freeing cap space, spending it wisely and drafting and developing these types of players is the fastest way for this Flyers team to get back into contention.
- jd250

So will every team. So how do you propose he does this? Until this core is dismantled it really wont matter much at the end of the day anyway.

You and I have had this conversation before. I made the statement in a previous post that based on last years season, it's important for the Flyers to react and fill some holes. However it is far more important that they don't overreact to the season. Watching playoff hockey is misleading when comparing it to regular season hockey. Every team is raising their game and intensity level in the playoffs. It is a better quality and more intense brand of hockey. With that being said, there has to be some context added to your statements of what the Flyers are in my opinion. As a whole, while I would not classify the Flyers as a fast team, they are also not slow. They do tend to play slow at times. When your team game and structure is not where it needs to be. When you have a poor forecheck structure, lack a neutral zone presence combined with very poor defensive zone coverage, you wind up chasing the puck a lot. You wind up defending a lot and having to spend a lot of time just trying to clear the puck out or dumping the puck to change after extending shifts. All of this will make a team constantly seem to be behind the play, chasing the puck and appear to be a slow team. This can all be fixed internally without any player change.
As far as lacking skill, it's true the Flyers don't have the high end skill that many top teams have. However they do have a good amount of skilled players.
Tenacity was definitely an issue last season. That especially reared it's head against the Rangers. The Flyers got into a huge mental funk last season, especially for a number of the young players. The were a dysfunctional mess for a lot of the season. Non-competitive in far too many games. The Flyers top veteran players such as Claude Giroux are no longer good enough players to strap the team on their backs and pull them out of it.
The coaching staff was never able to correct any of the issues that were plaguing the team. I'm a big fan and believe in Vigneault as a coach, but it was one of the worst coaching performances in Flyers history in my view. Why is an entirely different conversation in and of itself.
So I would disagree that there needs to be a complete philosophical change in the organization when it comes to style of play, which is what I think you're referring to. I would agree that they need to change what I think is going to be their approach this off season. They need to add some pieces but they need to do it in the right way and continue to focus on drafting and player development.
- MJL

I agree with just about everything you say except one thing. Its true AV had a poor season. Its true the team overall was in a funk and was chasing the game quite a bit. But I also believe its necessary to have a couple of players with just pure front line speed and skill, that can take a puck in the neutral zone and just blow past the opposing D and create a good scoring chance. I have been watching a lot more playoff hockey this year it seems compared to other years, and that is one thing I noticed from so many teams like Colorado, Vegas, Montreal, Lightning and Islanders. They have such players that can really turn a game around; e.g. Barzal yesterday against the Lightning. This is what I mean when I say the Flyers lack speed, just that one or two explosive players in your lineup that can make something out of nothing, whether in the neutral zone or stealing the puck on the forecheck.

I agree with just about everything you say except one thing. Its true AV had a poor season. Its true the team overall was in a funk and was chasing the game quite a bit. But I also believe its necessary to have a couple of players with just pure front line speed and skill, that can take a puck in the neutral zone and just blow past the opposing D and create a good scoring chance. I have been watching a lot more playoff hockey this year it seems compared to other years, and that is one thing I noticed from so many teams like Colorado, Vegas, Montreal, Lightning and Islanders. They have such players that can really turn a game around; e.g. Barzal yesterday against the Lightning. This is what I mean when I say the Flyers lack speed, just that one or two explosive players in your lineup that can make something out of nothing, whether in the neutral zone or stealing the puck on the forecheck.
- jd250

You saw the part where I talked about high end skill compared to top teams, correct?

So will every team. So how do you propose he does this? Until this core is dismantled it really wont matter much at the end of the day anyway.
- hello it's me 2050

I agree with you that the core of this Flyers team is not good enough presently to build around. Giroux, Couts and Hayes are not moving, so you have to look at Ghost, JVR and Jake and their combined $20M in cap space.

This team and organization are in disarray.

You have a GM and coaching staff that are here to win now. Yet they are so far away from winning now it is embarrassing. IMO many have already tuned out this coaching staff.

You roster consist of vets who are good complimentary players at this point. You have "young" guys who have some talent yet are inconsistent. None look like stars. Just good solid players every team needs. The most important position in all of sports is a huge question mark.

So what do you do?

You saw the part where I talked about high end skill compared to top teams, correct?
- MJL

Yes I did, and if that is what you meant, I'm good. I just wanted to clarify what I meant about speed being more than the team playing the game fast.

I agree with you that the core of this Flyers team is not good enough presently to build around. Giroux, Couts and Hayes are not moving, so you have to look at Ghost, JVR and Jake and their combined $20M in cap space.
- jd250

easy to say move that 20 mill in cap space. Every team has players they want to move.

What cost are you prepared to pay to make those moves happen?

I agree with you that the core of this Flyers team is not good enough presently to build around. Giroux, Couts and Hayes are not moving, so you have to look at Ghost, JVR and Jake and their combined $20M in cap space.
- jd250

Who do you think is the core of the team in the future? I think fans who think that Fletcher is going to be able to clear major cap space this off season are going to be very disappointed. The only real hope for that is that Seattle takes JVR or to a lesser extent, Gostisbehere.

Back before the trade deadline when you and I were discussing what the Flyers should do, I stated that I thought the Flyers should wait until the off season to address needs. You asked me who I had interest in. I stated that Larsson was a player that I had interest in. You replied to me that Larsson was a 3rd pair defenseman who did little to help the Flyers. Now I see you're advocating for him here. I still have interest in the Larsson but only at the right cost and term. Saad is a nice player but honestly, what is the cost? I feel he is a player that has to be in the right fit and that fit isn't here.
The Flyers should approach the off season in this manner in my opinion. Attempt to acquire a difference maker such as Jones. A player who is worth the cost. If they can't do that, then bring in short term low cost veterans and stop gaps. No more middle of the pack players with high cap hits and long terms who while they would improve the team, won't get them to where they need to go. Overpaying for players like Larsson, Saad, Foligno or others will only result in the Flyers being a good team who isn't good enough that is now capped out and lack felxibility. Kevin Hayes is the perfect example. He filled a need and helped the Flyers, at least the first year, but will wind up being a role player with a high cap hit. That's exactly what the Flyers shouldn't do. No overpaying for players like Ekholm or Saad.
- MJL

One reason I changed on Larsson is because he is tough to play against, and the Flyers need to get tougher to play against. We don't need a 50+ point defenseman IMO (though it would be nice), we need players that win battles, cover well defensively and make it really difficult for the other team. I like Saad because he is still young, and has good speed. I also like Schwartz for the same reason, though he has had a hard time staying on the ice. I don't want the Flyers to get themselves locked up in another long contract that will hang like an anvil around their neck, so my hope is they will target mid level FAs, and that is what I think these players are. Jones and Hamilton will command roughly $8M for 7 years, and I really don't want to Flyers to go there anymore. If they are going to spend this type of money, I would rather they spend it on a player they have drafted and developed, and know will be worth the money.

Who do you think is the core of the team in the future? I think fans who think that Fletcher is going to be able to clear major cap space this off season are going to be very disappointed. The only real hope for that is that Seattle takes JVR or to a lesser extent, Gostisbehere.
- MJL

Who do you think the core of this team will be 2/3 years from now?

I would not give up Konecny for Rinehart.
- MJL

I’m not ready to give up on TK in general. He showed he can play in this league (and score). His 5.5M cap hit could end up being a very good price moving forward if he can return back to his 19-20 season.

One reason I changed on Larsson is because he is tough to play against, and the Flyers need to get tougher to play against. We don't need a 50+ point defenseman IMO (though it would be nice), we need players that win battles, cover well defensively and make it really difficult for the other team. I like Saad because he is still young, and has good speed. I also like Schwartz for the same reason, though he has had a hard time staying on the ice. I don't want the Flyers to get themselves locked up in another long contract that will hang like an anvil around their neck, so my hope is they will target mid level FAs, and that is what I think these players are. Jones and Hamilton will command roughly $8M for 7 years, and I really don't want to Flyers to go there anymore. If they are going to spend this type of money, I would rather they spend it on a player they have drafted and developed, and know will be worth the money.
- jd250

Larson and Savard would be 2 guys you may be able to get on 4 year deals who combined would make a little more than what Jones will. That is the route I go. Though I think those 2 will look at other teams first if winning is part of their equation.

Ryan Murray and Martinez possible as well.

ivan - larson
sanheim - savard
bruan - myers/york

On paper that is a solid defense. That being said I can see the GM getting a Marc Staal or Jason Demers which would be par for the course. Anyone know how AV and Staal got along? The "vet" leader AV needs lol

Who do you think is the core of the team in the future? I think fans who think that Fletcher is going to be able to clear major cap space this off season are going to be very disappointed. The only real hope for that is that Seattle takes JVR or to a lesser extent, Gostisbehere.
- MJL

A LOT hinges on this. My worst nightmare is that Seattle takes Braun or NAK.

Getting rid of a player like Voracek is not going to be easy. You will be taking significant cap space back in a player who is most likely not as good if it is a trade. No one is trading for Voracek with picks and prospects. There are very few teams who can absorb his cap hit AND be in a position for it to be the right deal for them.

I’m not ready to give up on TK in general. He showed he can play in this league (and score). His 5.5M cap hit could end up being a very good price moving forward if he can return back to his 19-20 season.
- arichardson22

Trading him for Rinehart wouldn't be giving up on him in any way. You are getting a very good plyer back.

What kind of player is Jamie Oleksiak?

Is he worth attention from the Flyers as a UFA?

A LOT hinges on this. My worst nightmare is that Seattle takes Braun or NAK.

Getting rid of a player like Voracek is not going to be easy. You will be taking significant cap space back in a player who is most likely not as good if it is a trade. No one is trading for Voracek with picks and prospects. There are very few teams who can absorb his cap hit AND be in a position for it to be the right deal for them.
- MBFlyerfan

The only light on dealing Jake is he does produce. He isn't some slug at the end of the line like Ericson or the guy on the isles who's name escapes me.

That being said going to be very hard to move unless almost equal money coming back. Either way it is imperative that he be removed from this roster.

I don't think they take NAK he is a 12/13 th forward every team has in spades. Braun or Hagg I can easily see them taking. Will be much clearer when the protective list of all the teams comes out.

What kind of player is Jamie Oleksiak?

Is he worth attention from the Flyers as a UFA?
- MBFlyerfan

I think he gets overpaid in $ and term. I def inquire.

Who do you think is the core of the team in the future? I think fans who think that Fletcher is going to be able to clear major cap space this off season are going to be very disappointed. The only real hope for that is that Seattle takes JVR or to a lesser extent, Gostisbehere.
- MJL

The future could consist of Hart, Farabee, York, TK and Provorov. Maybe even Frost, Foerster and O'Brien; we'll have to see how these players develop and whether they are even with the team in the future. However, I agree with you that if Seattle does not take one of Ghost, Jake or JVR, the Flyers are screwed for at least another year or two. My hope is Fletcher will do what it takes to guarantee one of these three are selected by Seattle, and then trade the other two smartly, even though I realize that means possibly giving up top picks, prospects, covering salary and/or taking back contracts. I don't want to do this, but I don't think the Flyers have any choice at this point. They have to do a reset IMO.

The only light on dealing Jake is he does produce. He isn't some slug at the end of the line like Ericson or the guy on the isles who's name escapes me.

That being said going to be very hard to move unless almost equal money coming back. Either way it is imperative that he be removed from this roster.

I don't think they take NAK he is a 12/13 th forward every team has in spades. Braun or Hagg I can easily see them taking. Will be much clearer when the protective list of all the teams comes out.
- hello it's me 2050

Yes, and with that equal money, I seriously doubt it is also a better player than Jake. I think Jake is here next season and possibly the season after that.

I would absolutely love to move him to better use that cap space somewhere else. But I just don't think it is feasible.

Trading him for Rinehart wouldn't be giving up on him in any way. You are getting a very good plyer back.
- hello it's me 2050

I just think TK’s best value is here in Philly.

One reason I changed on Larsson is because he is tough to play against, and the Flyers need to get tougher to play against. We don't need a 50+ point defenseman IMO (though it would be nice), we need players that win battles, cover well defensively and make it really difficult for the other team. I like Saad because he is still young, and has good speed. I also like Schwartz for the same reason, though he has had a hard time staying on the ice. I don't want the Flyers to get themselves locked up in another long contract that will hang like an anvil around their neck, so my hope is they will target mid level FAs, and that is what I think these players are. Jones and Hamilton will command roughly $8M for 7 years, and I really don't want to Flyers to go there anymore. If they are going to spend this type of money, I would rather they spend it on a player they have drafted and developed, and know will be worth the money.
- jd250

Jones for 8M for 7 years is a steal. Flyers should jump on that contract. The issue is the cost to acquire him. Saad and Schwartz are not the right players for the Flyers.