i don't think anyone gets confused about that honestly. also, saying the regular season doesn't really matter is pretty ridiculous, since, you know, teams make the playoffs based on the regular season.
- Ftown19125

Don't they? You will find poster after poster talk about "replacing someone's production". The production they are talking about is always regular season.

Yes, regular season team standings are the cover charge for post-season. But people who obsess over regular season individual stats for a player usually never pay attention to how that player delivers in the post-season.

If they did, frankly the talk about how irreplaceable Couturier is would come to an abrupt halt.

Don't get me wrong. I think Couturier is our best player, and a very good (but certainly not exceptional) player. I just think that with Hayes penciled in as 2C, the likely progression of our youngsters, it will be at least 2-3 years in the most optimistic scenario where we are contending. And at that point, you will have 15m (which will be 18% or so) tied up in 2 centers who are over 30.

Name me one frikking club that has ever won anything with that parameter. Like, ever.

I am not a troll. Pathetic is a subjective term though so I will not argue that.
- PT21

- Scoob

L'enfer, c'est les autres

Don't they? You will find poster after poster talk about "replacing someone's production". The production they are talking about is always regular season.

Yes, regular season team standings are the cover charge for post-season. But people who obsess over regular season individual stats for a player usually never pay attention to how that player delivers in the post-season.

If they did, frankly the talk about how irreplaceable Couturier is would come to an abrupt halt.

Don't get me wrong. I think Couturier is our best player, and a very good (but certainly not exceptional) player. I just think that with Hayes penciled in as 2C, the likely progression of our youngsters, it will be at least 2-3 years in the most optimistic scenario where we are contending. And at that point, you will have 15m (which will be 18% or so) tied up in 2 centers who are over 30.

Name me one frikking club that has ever won anything with that parameter. Like, ever.
- PT21

is couturier part of the team? if he decides to take it easy during the regular season, does that help the team's chances of making the playoffs or hurt them? regular season definitely matters. i do get what you're trying to say though.

i'm not debating there are pros and cons for trading/re-signing him. i agree. i personally want them to keep him.

i also see plenty of posters talk about giroux's regular season stats vs his recent playoff stats. so i don't agree that people ignore that.

Do you believe at some point there comes a time when players/organization need to cut the cord and move on?
- hello it's me 2050

Yes I do, however I don't think this necessarily has to be the case for Giroux. I still think he has a lot to give, and if his next contract is priced right it could be good for the Flyers. Speaking as a Flyer fan, I would really love to win a cup with Giroux on the team. I don't think he is the cause of the bad that is going on currently. Yes, he can be a more vocal leader, but as many people have pointed out on this very forum, leadership comes from more places than just the player wearing the 'C' on his jersey.

is couturier part of the team? if he decides to take it easy during the regular season, does that help the team's chances of making the playoffs or hurt them? regular season definitely matters. i do get what you're trying to say though.

i'm not debating there are pros and cons for trading/re-signing him. i agree. i personally want them to keep him.

i also see plenty of posters talk about giroux's regular season stats vs his recent playoff stats. so i don't agree that people ignore that.
- Ftown19125

Different context. Talk about not resigning Giroux, and the talk will shift almost exclusively to his regular season production.

Its all moot, as DraftnDestroy said yesterday. In the NHL, you don't let a guy like Couts walk unless he wants to. No team would do it.

But the reason for it is that rebuilds take some time in the NHL, and fans won't have the patience and the tolerance for such blatant moves.

[quote=jd250]I really don't understand why so many people want Giroux out of here? Please help me understand this. Is it because he is wearing the 'C' and you all don't feel he will give it up if asked? I mean, G is still a very good player and a good example to the younger guys. He is no longer an elite forward in this league, but I think he still has a lot to give. He wants to win badly and wants to win as a Flyer, and that is not a bad thing to be around. Why not keep him and resign him for the player he is now, and use the money left over to bring in better players around him? Its players like Jake, Ghost and JVR that we need to move on from and free up 25% of our cap space

Its simple . If Giroux wants to stay her at 5-6M on a 3yr deal you make a gentlemans agreement at deadline with him to a resign just as Columbus did with Foligno ( they got a #1 pick) . Trade him at deadline get tons of assets and he gets his chance at a CUP..Win Win for all.....if he wants more then 5.5 - 6 and or 3 yrs Bye bye
- hfc355

I agree if Giroux pushes for $5-$6M per, I part ways. I would not pay more than $4-$4.5 for Giroux, given the player he is now and the flat cap forecast for the next few seasons.

We all would absolutely love Marchand if he was a Flyer...one of the best overall players in the NHL skill wise plus he has that intangible that riles up other players and fans. If you were around in the 70s that exactly what Clarke was like. Highly skilled and hated by other teams fans. Would do anything he could, legal or illegal, to win.
- hfc355

Sorry, though I recognize that Marchand is an elite forward in this league, I absolutely cannot root for him, no matter what sweater he puts on. I would hate him even if he was a Flyer.

Funny thing is, just a few weeks ago, I got into a detailed discussion with a poster about the pros and cons of trading Couturier and I provided a lot of reasoning why that course might make sense. Some dude called jd250.

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...?thread_id=171694&page=17

and subsequent pages.

I also laid out the case for trading Couts (ignore the comparisons to Barzal for this purpose) here:

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...post_id=21473842#21473842
- PT21

I said it then and I will say it now, Couturier is part of the solution here. BTW, re-reading the post you referenced, I noted posts from MJL. I miss him on here, I sincerely hope he is OK.

I said it then and I will say it now, Couturier is part of the solution here. BTW, re-reading the post you referenced, I noted posts from MJL. I miss him on here, I sincerely hope he is OK.
- jd250

you're surely in the minority

it's nice to come here and read multiple conversations, not just him nitpicking back and forth

Please tell me you are joking .. so everything wrong with the Flyers is because of Giroux? Really? How did Pavelski's leadership work for the Stars this year?
- jd250

I don’t think he can comprehend that he would get a huge return
- ClaudeFather

When was the last time you saw an 8 million dollar player get traded for a huge return and why would Giroux waive his no trade with a wife and new born baby? Do you like moving because I don’t.

Educate me on this huge return and tell me what we’d get for Giroux at a high cap hit and down side of his career.

I’m all ears.

lol - I hate jerseys with nicknames on them - Canes, Bolts, Sens - horrible
- Scoob

i hate the canes entire set, always have....I didnt think it could get worse, then they did the CANES

I said it then and I will say it now, Couturier is part of the solution here. BTW, re-reading the post you referenced, I noted posts from MJL. I miss him on here, I sincerely hope he is OK.
- jd250

We can agree to disagree on Couts. All I am saying is that for hockey (winning cup) reasons, there *is* a case to be made for trading Couts. You may not like the case, but it is not "asinine".

Re:MJL, I truly hope he is ok. He is one of us, and I am a well wisher. However, I cannot lie: quality of discussion has gone up a lot here since his absence and I don't miss the poster.

When was the last time you saw an 8 million dollar player get traded for a huge return and why would Giroux waive his no trade with a wife and new born baby? Do you like moving because I don’t.

Educate me on this huge return and tell me what we’d get for Giroux at a high cap hit and down side of his career.

I’m all ears.
- SuperSchennBros

they were talking about couturier, not giroux.

Strange story. Multiple puzzling things about it but in short:

Shell out for an independent, professional mold and radon inspection where the buyer hires the professionals. You are sinking hundreds of grand on a purchase: spend a few hundred more bucks for a life changing contingency. Don't rely on seller disclosure or agent opinions.

- PT21

For radon, the initial presale reading was around 20 (mortgage company requires four or under). The owners paid to have two systems installed and the new independent test came in at 4.0.
The thing about radon tests is that you can't prevent the owners from opening the windows during the 48 hour test which is clearly what they must have done to get that reading since our own tests are 9. Maybe you're right and that I should have looked at suing. Remediating serious radon is a major hassle. The company that installed the units basically say at this point you have to redo all your HVAC, and the two HVAC companies I brought in said that they could not pressurize the house in the other direction. We've identified where it's coming from I will probably install a third unit in that room and then see where we're at.

Even though you're right that I could have done better, I think pretty much all house purchases are inheriting someone else's problems, and even friends who have bought new homes have ended up with lemon issues...

For radon, the initial presale reading was around 20 (mortgage company requires four or under). The owners paid to have two systems installed and the new independent test came in at 4.0.
The thing about radon tests is that you can't prevent the owners from opening the windows during the 48 hour test which is clearly what they must have done to get that reading since our own tests are 9. Maybe you're right and that I should have looked at suing. Remediating serious radon is a major hassle. The company that installed the units basically say at this point you have to redo all your HVAC, and the two HVAC companies I brought in said that they could not pressurize the house in the other direction. We've identified where it's coming from I will probably install a third unit in that room and then see where we're at.

Even though you're right that I could have done better, I think pretty much all house purchases are inheriting someone else's problems, and even friends who have bought new homes have ended up with lemon issues...
- therabbi

The most important thing is what the sellers disclosure stated. If they knowingly manipulated a test so any lender would approve mortgage I would absolutely speak with an attorney.
Next is what did the sellers agent know and what guidance did he or she give sellers?
I deal with real estate investing and have walked through tons of houses.
I’ve gotten weird looks bringing a 3 foot level, racquetball, flashlight, moisture tester and at times small rubber mallet, electrical ground tester on walkthroughs.
I always run water at every sink shower toilet to make sure they drain properly.
What’s hard in this market is getting the time to thoroughly go through a property.
The agent i usually try and work with is an investor as well so she is usually working while I’m playing inspector Clouseau.

For radon, the initial presale reading was around 20 (mortgage company requires four or under). The owners paid to have two systems installed and the new independent test came in at 4.0.
The thing about radon tests is that you can't prevent the owners from opening the windows during the 48 hour test which is clearly what they must have done to get that reading since our own tests are 9. Maybe you're right and that I should have looked at suing. Remediating serious radon is a major hassle. The company that installed the units basically say at this point you have to redo all your HVAC, and the two HVAC companies I brought in said that they could not pressurize the house in the other direction. We've identified where it's coming from I will probably install a third unit in that room and then see where we're at.

Even though you're right that I could have done better, I think pretty much all house purchases are inheriting someone else's problems, and even friends who have bought new homes have ended up with lemon issues...
- therabbi

Just saw this...
So, there was a history with the Radon issue then. You must be a very trusting guy to know about the issue and not immediately do an independent test as soon as you had possession of the house. That would have been prime time to contest seller disclosure.

Unfortunately, that prior knowledge probably makes the situation more tenuous from a legal standpoint. The fact that you knew that Radon levels were 20, and that ameliorating equipment was used to bring it down to 4, means you knew there was a fundamental Radon issue when making the purchase. Seller will claim that it is the machinery/system that is failing, and like all equipment that came with the house (like HVAC), you took on the risk of equipment failure when you bought the house and ofc, already knew there was a structural issue.

Still, if you have a friend or trusted contact who does real estate law, no harm in kicking the tires, as Bird_dog Pa says above, in getting a legal opinion. (needless to say, just be wary that many lawyers will always be telling you to sue, because it is beneficial to them. be wary of the shysters. They proliferate like cockroaches in such domains).

Some amount of inherited risk is certainly par for the course for house purchases. Too easy to hide up defects/history. But your case is a bit worse than average.

Sorry to hear that, man.