Top D after a good tender goes a long ways. A top C is always an important piece but cannot carry a team on his own. Yzerman on 1 leg beat us. He was a true all around superstar that had a total game. Sakic was pretty good as well. Crosby another star with a complete game.

When will McD improve his game at his cost like they did?

I agree about goaltending, but like I said the level of goaltending equal to the impact of a guy like Jordan/LeBron is just unsustainable, sure you can get an amazing 20-30 game run out of a guy with a .940+ sv% but that’s just not going to happen over 82 games. LeBron in his prime was having that type of impact every game he played.
- Nucker101

How many of Patrick Roy's teams would have won cups without Roy? Brodeur?

I mean of course it's different you're talking a sport that has about 7-8 guys play significant minutes......maybe 9.

I'll simplify it for you. If McDavid is on the Jets and Hellebuyck is on the Oilers, let's say at the cost of Scheifele and Smith who would you have leading the series?

Head Coach Travis Green
Asst. Coach Nolan Baumgartner
Asst. Coach Newell Brown
Asst. Coach Jason King
Goaltending Coach Ian Clark
General Manager Jim Benning
Asst. General Manager Chris Gear
Asst. General Manager John Weisbrod
Asst. Equipment Manager Brian Hamilton
Asst. Equipment Manager Mac Stewart
Athletic Trainer Nick Addey-Jibb
Athletic Trainer Jon Sanderson
Athletic Trainer Dave Zarn
Chairman Francesco Aquilini
Conditioning Coach Ken Hetzel
Development Coach Chris Higgins
Dir. of Conditioning Bryan Marshall
Dir. of Conditioning Roger Takahashi
Dir. of Hockey Operations Jonathan Wall
Dir. of Player Development Ryan Johnson
Dir. of Professional Scouting Brett Henning
Franchise Owner Roberto Aquilini
Franchise Owner Paolo Aquilini
Franchise Owner Francesco Aquilini
Head Equipment Manager Pat O'Neill
Scout Martin Bakula
Scout Jonathan Bates
Scout Brandon Benning
Scout Brian Chapman
Scout Sergei Chibisov
Scout Pat Conacher
Scout Lou Crawford
Scout Ron Delorme
Scout Phil Golding
Scout Thomas Gradin
Scout Ted Hampson
Scout Todd Harvey
Scout Patrik Jonsson
Scout Neil Komadoski
Scout Tim Lenardon
Scout Lars Lindgren
Scout Vincent Montalbano
Scout Derek Richard
Scout Wyatt Smith
Scout Troy Ward
Senior Advisor Doug Jarvis
Senior Advisor Stan Smyl
Skills Coach Chris Higgins
Video Coach Darryl Seward
- manvanfan

That’s a big list, but now I get the problem, it’s the skills coaches fault.

Head Coach Travis Green
Asst. Coach Nolan Baumgartner
Asst. Coach Newell Brown
Asst. Coach Jason King
Goaltending Coach Ian Clark
General Manager Jim Benning
Asst. General Manager Chris Gear
Asst. General Manager John Weisbrod
Asst. Equipment Manager Brian Hamilton
Asst. Equipment Manager Mac Stewart
Athletic Trainer Nick Addey-Jibb
Athletic Trainer Jon Sanderson
Athletic Trainer Dave Zarn
Chairman Francesco Aquilini
Conditioning Coach Ken Hetzel
Development Coach Chris Higgins
Dir. of Conditioning Bryan Marshall
Dir. of Conditioning Roger Takahashi
Dir. of Hockey Operations Jonathan Wall
Dir. of Player Development Ryan Johnson
Dir. of Professional Scouting Brett Henning
Franchise Owner Roberto Aquilini
Franchise Owner Paolo Aquilini
Franchise Owner Francesco Aquilini
Head Equipment Manager Pat O'Neill
Scout Martin Bakula
Scout Jonathan Bates
Scout Brandon Benning
Scout Brian Chapman
Scout Sergei Chibisov
Scout Pat Conacher
Scout Lou Crawford
Scout Ron Delorme
Scout Phil Golding
Scout Thomas Gradin
Scout Ted Hampson
Scout Todd Harvey
Scout Patrik Jonsson
Scout Neil Komadoski
Scout Tim Lenardon
Scout Lars Lindgren
Scout Vincent Montalbano
Scout Derek Richard
Scout Wyatt Smith
Scout Troy Ward
Senior Advisor Doug Jarvis
Senior Advisor Stan Smyl
Skills Coach Chris Higgins
Video Coach Darryl Seward
- manvanfan

Who takes the lunch orders?

BTW, the supporting cast also matter in the NBA.

Let's not pretend LJ carried Cleveland to championships before he went to Miami with Wade and Friends, nor MJ won before Pippen and Grant showed up. It matters in all sports.

How many times did Wilt Chamberlain hoist the ultimate trophy?

That's such a fallacy. TB had a great team assembled before he got there and added to it.

No way Brady wins a shootout with Mahomes.

Also, check out Brady's first two SB wins and his last one in NE. That's called solid QB play riding a defense.
- golfingsince

Could be, but let’s follow the money. At the start of 2019 the Buccaneers were +6000 of winning the 2020 Super Bowl. That’s 60/1 in terms of fractional odds with an implied odds of 1.64 percent chance of winning the Super Bowl.

Brady joined the Bucs in 2020 and their odds went from +6000 the previous year to +1400 in 2020 before the year started. I think that had a lot to do with Tommy Boy.

Who takes the lunch orders?
- A_SteamingLombardi

Benning. And he always fcks it up.

How many of Patrick Roy's teams would have won cups without Roy? Brodeur?

I mean of course it's different you're talking a sport that has about 7-8 guys play significant minutes......maybe 9.

I'll simplify it for you. If McDavid is on the Jets and Hellebuyck is on the Oilers, let's say at the cost of Scheifele and Smith who would you have leading the series?
- golfingsince

Can't comment on those old school teams, I was too young or not yet born to watch those teams

I'll take McDavid + Smith over Hellebyuck + Scheifele, but point taken, the series would be closer.

BTW, the supporting cast also matter in the NBA.

Let's not pretend LJ carried Cleveland to championships before he went to Miami with Wade and Friends, nor MJ won before Pippen and Grant showed up. It matters in all sports.

How many times did Wilt Chamberlain hoist the ultimate trophy?
- golfingsince

Oh, I definitely agree that supporting casts matter. But 2 superstars in the NBA will get you very far, even surrounded by a bunch of role players, meanwhile the Oilers in that same position are struggling to even make the playoffs.

Benning. And he always fcks it up.
- CubanBuffet

Like my kids, Jim always gets distracted by the play place.

Could be, but let’s follow the money. At the start of 2019 the Buccaneers were +6000 of winning the 2020 Super Bowl. That’s 60/1 in terms of fractional odds with an implied odds of 1.64 percent chance of winning the Super Bowl.

Brady joined the Bucs in 2020 and their odds went from +6000 the previous year to +1400 in 2020 before the year started. I think that had a lot to do with Tommy Boy.
- bloatedmosquito

There's no doubt QB is an important position but all they needed was someone not to turn the ball over 3 times per game.

Benning. And he always fcks it up.
- CubanBuffet

Oh, I definitely agree that supporting casts matter. But 2 superstars in the NBA will get you very far, even surrounded by a bunch of role players, meanwhile the Oilers in that same position are struggling to even make the playoffs.
- Nucker101

Yeah, cuz it's like 25% of team minutes played or more. Then again, aside from leading the league in scoring Jordan was also 1st team all defense.

Benning. And he always fcks it up.
- CubanBuffet

Hey Jim, I’ll trade you my PB&J and tomorrow’s 40g bag of salt and vinegar chips for your meatball sub, poutine and IPA. PB&J, man, that’s how you win. The peanut butter has a real long stick and is good at clearing your lanes.

Anyways Nucker, my point was that it's more easily done in the NHL than the NFL.


I agree with the NBA but starters and top 2 bench play nearly all the minutes.

In the NHL if you aren't affecting both ends of the ice you either have to be a top notch goalie or so much better at scoring points than others to carry a team. I've really only seen 2 forwards that qualify in that regard.

Anyways Nucker, my point was that it's more easily done in the NHL than the NFL.


I agree with the NBA but starters and top 2 bench play nearly all the minutes.
- golfingsince

I still say an elite talent at QB in the NFL(Mahomes, Rodgers) trumps an elite talent at goalie(Vasy, Gibson, Helly) in the NHL, but we can agree to disagree.

In the NHL if you aren't affecting both ends of the ice you either have to be a top notch goalie or so much better at scoring points than others to carry a team. I've really only seen 2 forwards that qualify in that regard.
- golfingsince

Just to chime in... Vox has a good video about this, in the skill vs luck of each sport:

https://www.vox.com/video...5740632/luck-skill-sports



Skillsets in hockey have the least overall impact/luck plays a greater part. Basketball is opposite: skill has the most impact, luck a lesser amount

Honestly, I'm still working through the shock that we finished behind the Sens and nobody got fired.
- Load Management

Holy crap yup wow

Oh, I definitely agree that supporting casts matter. But 2 superstars in the NBA will get you very far, even surrounded by a bunch of role players, meanwhile the Oilers in that same position are struggling to even make the playoffs.
- Nucker101

And then there is the luxury tax difference in the NBA.
I bet ya Katz would have gone over to get a decent goalie if he could.
Koskinen and Smith are brutal.

And then there is the luxury tax difference in the NBA.
I bet ya Katz would have gone over to get a decent goalie if he could.
Koskinen and Smith are brutal.
- dbot

Very West Coast Express era feeling

I agree that he's not the best defensive player, but what I'm saying is that would probably not even matter if he had a great supporting cast like Hedman does.
- Nucker101

Hedman is the best all-around defenseman in the show. I would take him over mcjesus, he just is that good and can play 30 minutes. Iblike mcjesus and think he will get better defensively. For now he's not quite as good a mac or hedman, imo. Took both hedman and mac a while to be this dominant, i expect mcjesus to get there. But fir me, not yet.

Very West Coast Express era feeling


- NewYorkNuck

Ha. True.

Waitaminute.

Is Naslund the McDavid and BigBert Draisaitl?

Lol

And then there is the luxury tax difference in the NBA.
I bet ya Katz would have gone over to get a decent goalie if he could.
Koskinen and Smith are brutal.
- dbot

I rather be us with our holes than the Oil.
Both teams have a ways to go.

I still say an elite talent at QB in the NFL(Mahomes, Rodgers) trumps an elite talent at goalie(Vasy, Gibson, Helly) in the NHL, but we can agree to disagree.
- Nucker101

If Mahomes had an offensive line, they probably beat the bucs. Supporting cast is just as important, id say moreso important as without a string D it doesn't matter. Just ask your boy Russell