Every single thing you said here means you are grading them not on their own potential but based on what you want them to be.

Well, they are not who you want them to be. Couturier and JVR never were if they disappointed you this season. Roo and Jake no longer are who they were.
- PT21

I'm grading them based on what the team is paying them! They are being paid like top players in this league, and I think, hope, we agree that they are nowhere close to playing like it. Not this year, and not last year either. The top players on this team right now are Couts and Farabee. Couts will get his payday after next season, Farabee in a few more. But in the meantime, we are stuck with average to below average offensive players eating up almost 50% of the team's cap!

That means nothing, their stats last year were below par too! This year the Flyers did not have 1 player in the top 50 in scoring. Last year the Flyers did not have 1 player in the top 30 in scoring, and a young player, TK, lead them in scoring! The Flyers have $38M tied up in G, Jake, Hayes, JVR and Provorov and what do they have to show for it?

The bottom line is your best players have to play their best in critical moments of the game. How many times did this happen this season? How many times did the Flyers get a late PP and an opportunity to close out the game and fail? How many times did the Flyers have a chance to score an empty net goal to ice a game and fail? How many times did we see opponents score short handed goals on the Flyers (they lead the league in SHG against BTW)? Or my all time favorite, giving up a 2-1 break during a 2 man advantage! The team didn't score but how many times did they give their opponents momentum? How many times did the Flyers vets come down the ice on a 3 on 1 and not even get a shot on goal? The Flyers so-called best players are not top players in the league, and its killing them!
- jd250

This

BTW, since it's end of the year and we're giving out grades, Farabee is the only A in my books as well. He exceeded expectation, even playing down in the lineup in occasional games with line mates with lesser skill.

I'm grading them based on what the team is paying them! They are being paid like top players in this league, and I think, hope, we agree that they are nowhere close to playing like it. Not this year, and not last year either. The top players on this team right now are Couts and Farabee. Couts will get his payday after next season, Farabee in a few more. But in the meantime, we are stuck with average to below average offensive players eating up almost 50% of the team's cap!
- jd250

Fine, we agree then. You are grading them on absolute standards, not on underachievement.

I think what happened for the regular season debacle was mostly the young players and some positional gaps/under-performance.

The anger at the vets is what usually happens after playoffs. If we had the former issue corrected, we would be in the playoffs. Then, though, the shortcomings of the veteran core would be exposed: as it was in every even # year since Couturier entered the league.

We just fast forwarded the tape this year re: vet disappointment. Technically, though, we have not made the playoffs in odd# years since 2013. So, this year is par for the course.

I'm grading them based on what the team is paying them! They are being paid like top players in this league, and I think, hope, we agree that they are nowhere close to playing like it. Not this year, and not last year either. The top players on this team right now are Couts and Farabee. Couts will get his payday after next season, Farabee in a few more. But in the meantime, we are stuck with average to below average offensive players eating up almost 50% of the team's cap!
- jd250

Thats why a run for Eichel would be good, at least have something to build around. We can shore up our D, but we need to score more also, G isn't getting better, contrary to what some think, Jake isn't getting better. Hopefully Wade and Frost can do some damage. Foerester down the road.

Unfortunately, what used to be a full cupboard of decent prospects, now looks to be filled with a whole lotta not so much.


I hope they prove me wrong but, I have seen no indicators of passion, fire, finishing ability or grit.

I Agree Patrick is a bust

Frost aside from a couple really nice plays early on, he will be a bust at NHL level but tear up the Ahl. Already brittle and now with a repaired shoulder, not a good recipe.

York will be a bust too. Too small and NHL will figure out his moves just like they did Ghost and stymie any growth beyond a good Ahler.

Thats why a run for Eichel would be good, at least have something to build around. We can shore up our D, but we need to score more also, G isn't getting better, contrary to what some think, Jake isn't getting better. Hopefully Wade and Frost can do some damage. Foerester down the road.
- bradster

Who thinks he's getting better? They were middle of the pack in goals per game, dead last in goals against per game. I'd say shoring up the D should be a priority over trying to add Eichel. I'm not poopting on him either, would love to have him, I just can't imagine the team not being worse for a while with what he would cost in a trade.

Unfortunately, what used to be a full cupboard of decent prospects, now looks to be filled with a whole lotta not so much.


I hope they prove me wrong but, I have seen no indicators of passion, fire, finishing ability or grit.

I Agree Patrick is a bust

Frost aside from a couple really nice plays early on, he will be a bust at NHL level but tear up the Ahl. Already brittle and now with a repaired shoulder, not a good recipe.

York will be a bust too. Too small and NHL will figure out his moves just like they did Ghost and stymie any growth beyond a good Ahler.
- konalover711

It's about time someone said it. And what about Tyson Foerster? He couldn't even make it through an AHL season without getting injured. We expect him to get through a season in the NHL?????

Haha being real is a hater. That’s genius

All you care about is stats then cuz he does nothing else
- Fopa21

And all Chris Carter does is catch touchdowns.

Who thinks he's getting better? They were middle of the pack in goals per game, dead last in goals against per game. I'd say shoring up the D should be a priority over trying to add Eichel. I'm not poopting on him either, would love to have him, I just can't imagine the team not being worse for a while with what he would cost in a trade.
- Ftown19125

I think D should be a priority, especially a RH D. But how often do you get a chance at an Eichel......He is really good, and playing on crap teams. So we agree, we have a lot of holes to fill... lol. No idea what he would cost. Provy and TK + a first? More than that? I don't know. But we could do that and then sign some FA's to fix our D (savard would help). You'd be surprised what's possible. We have some cap space available. To me PRovy is not untouchable, almost every team has a D man as good or better than provy. Some teams have a few that are better than him.

And all Chris Carter does is catch touchdowns.
- atibus

Could you imagine if Chris Carter went half of the games without getting a TD then would get 4 in one game to pad stats & call that a good season?

Could you imagine if Chris Carter went half of the games without getting a TD then would get 4 in one game to pad stats & call that a good season?
- Fopa21

I would if he made tackles, threw good blocks, got the occasional first down, drew coverage so other players could catch passes or score touchdowns.

What do you think of OS-ing Makar if we manage to shed one of Jake/JVR? In this age, he will get maybe 8 tops from Avs. We offer him 10.5 for 7. Colorado has a major cap crunch looming. Mackinnon will be up in 2 years. Landeskog soon. They have Byram in the pipeline. If Makar signs (and not signing would be leaving 10 mil + over the duration) and Avs match they would have to shed significant pieces to retain Makar. If they do though, no harm done.
- PT21

Interesting idea. Colorado would have a hard time matching FA money. I just hate the idea of not being able to make any moves during their match period, especially if it happens around the start of free agency.

I’m also not sold that Makar will suddenly put us in the playoff picture with all of our holes. Those four 1st’s could still end up being pretty dang high picks.

I would if he made tackles, threw good blocks, got the occasional first down, drew coverage so other players could catch passes or score touchdowns.
- MBFlyerfan

Okay. Agree to an extent. So tell me what else Giroux did this year besides point total & faceoffs. Did he hit, hustle, play defense, block shots, step up when his team was giving up 5 points to a player in one period & stop his team from further embarrassing themselves or did he just come out & say the same garbage he’s been saying for years.....ah yeah it’s frustrating. We are frustrated turn the page

I think D should be a priority, especially a RH D. But how often do you get a chance at an Eichel......He is really good, and playing on crap teams. So we agree, we have a lot of holes to fill... lol. No idea what he would cost. Provy and TK + a first? More than that? I don't know. But we could do that and then sign some FA's to fix our D (savard would help). You'd be surprised what's possible. We have some cap space available. To me PRovy is not untouchable, almost every team has a D man as good or better than provy. Some teams have a few that are better than him.
- bradster

Moving Provorov for a forward, any forward, with the current state of the defense would only set them back further imo.

Okay. Agree to an extent. So tell me what else Giroux did this year besides point total & faceoffs. Did he hit, hustle, play defense, block shots, step up when his team was giving up 5 points to a player in one period & stop his team from further embarrassing themselves or did he just come out & say the same garbage he’s been saying for years.....ah yeah it’s frustrating. We are frustrated turn the page
- Fopa21

Have you ever played a team sport?

Have you ever played a team sport?
- atibus

So you can’t tell me

Okay. Agree to an extent. So tell me what else Giroux did this year besides point total & faceoffs. Did he hit, hustle, play defense, block shots, step up when his team was giving up 5 points to a player in one period & stop his team from further embarrassing themselves or did he just come out & say the same garbage he’s been saying for years.....ah yeah it’s frustrating. We are frustrated turn the page
- Fopa21

lol @ did he hustle. you are a joke.

Moving Provorov for a forward, any forward, with the current state of the defense would only set them back further imo.
- hereticpride

Why cant you sign free agent D

lol @ did he hustle. you are a joke.
- Ftown19125

The only joke is you defending his lack of forecheck, lack of hustle, lack of defense but I don’t blame you for never having played the game

Because people keep wanting to throw the kids under the bus. Yes, a lot of them sucked this year but the leadership has been atrocious for years
- Fopa21

Somebody like you knows about leadership on a professional sports team ? Please.

Somebody like you knows about leadership on a professional sports team ? Please.
- Angus4444

Hahahhah to this. If you only knew

The only joke is you defending his lack of forecheck, lack of hustle, lack of defense but I don’t blame you for never having played the game
- Fopa21

don't need to play the game in order to know that to lead the league in points over several seasons, as you've said giroux did, you couldn't possibly be labeled as "not a good hockey player." you just come off as a moron when you say things like that. can't take anything else you say seriously.

Was following up on yesterday's discussion on dollars/point of leading players. I looked at lifetime earnings of star players. Chose a few at random, centering around those who have been on the league 15 odd years and are still playing, and concentrating only on regular season.

Guys, guess who has given the largest bang for the buck or best value for the money to a franchise.



EDIT (correction):

don't need to play the game in order to know that to lead the league in points over several seasons, as you've said giroux did, you couldn't possibly be labeled as "not a good hockey player." you just come off as a moron when you say things like that. can't take anything else you say seriously.
- Ftown19125

He’s a good offense hockey player but not a good complete hockey player but I wouldn’t expect you to understand the difference

Only graded skaters that played 40 or more games and goalies who started 20 or more games. 18 Flyers received grades, but there was no A’s or F’s, totally mediocre. Of course, team results and teammates can affect a score but I attempted to give the average of each individual. For example, JVR exceeded my expectations for the beginning weeks of the season and fell below expectations during times in the second half of the season. Some guys are up and down game by game and others had hot and cold stretches; I used the average.

Obviously, this isn’t a talent level evaluation. If someone appears higher or lower by far than you think, maybe I think they were capable of more than you think under the known circumstances or maybe I saw something in their game differently than your observations.

A = Exceeded expectations
B = Met expectations
C = Below expectations
D = Far below expectations
F = Failed to register on the chart

B+ — Giroux, Farabee
B — JVR, Provorov
B- — Braun, Laughton

C+ — Couturier, Voracek, Ghost
C — Lindblom, Elliott
C- — TK, NAK, Hart

D+ — Sanheim, Patrick
D — Myers
D- — Hayes