don't need to play the game in order to know that to lead the league in points over several seasons, as you've said giroux did, you couldn't possibly be labeled as "not a good hockey player." you just come off as a moron when you say things like that. can't take anything else you say seriously.
- Ftown19125

You guys are fighting over semantics...
Giroux 2010-2015 Great to exceptional hockey player
Giroux 2016-2018 An ok to pretty decent hockey player
Giroux 2019-to next year and beyond an aging veteran who could be a nice addition to a team wanting experience etc to maybe win a cup somewhere else for a nice haul.

Could you imagine if Chris Carter went half of the games without getting a TD then would get 4 in one game to pad stats & call that a good season?
- Fopa21

What if they went 15-1

You guys are fighting over semantics...
Giroux 2010-2015 Great to exceptional hockey player
Giroux 2016-2018 An ok to pretty decent hockey player
Giroux 2019-to next year and beyond an aging veteran who could be a nice addition to a team wanting experience etc to maybe win a cup somewhere else for a nice haul.
- konalover711

There is no chance any contending team would take a chance on him. Any contending team already has a solid top 6 & g provides zero value in a third/fourth line checking defense role. You probably couldn’t give him away to a contender

Hahahhah to this. If you only knew
- Fopa21

I know believe me. You wouldn’t be on here if you knew.

There is no chance any contending team would take a chance on him. Any contending team already has a solid top 6 & g provides zero value in a third/fourth line checking defense role. You probably couldn’t give him away to a contender
- Fopa21

What’s your name and stats playa. Fraud !!!!!!

No insider but I did get paid to the play the game so I think I have a bit of an insight & see things in a different way. I’m not proclaiming to be the greatest hockey player I was never close to playing in the NHL & I made peanuts but I was pretty successful relatively speaking & was able to do it for 7 years at a level few people make it to
- Fopa21

FRAUDULENT, FRAUD, FRAUDS, FRAUDULENTLY

There is no chance any contending team would take a chance on him. Any contending team already has a solid top 6 & g provides zero value in a third/fourth line checking defense role. You probably couldn’t give him away to a contender
- Fopa21

Dude do you just default to being a big Richard....

Ok you win Giroux should be outta of hockey he has absolutely no worth whatsoever!!!

Ok next argument with you
I will start
Black....Your turn....
Or the sky is blue, go explain how it is an optical illusion. Its A$$Hole$ like you that ruin forums like cause you just default to being a RICHARD! Go F yourself!!
Turn me in I wanna ban so I cant respond to your stupid anymore.

There is no chance any contending team would take a chance on him. Any contending team already has a solid top 6 & g provides zero value in a third/fourth line checking defense role. You probably couldn’t give him away to a contender
- Fopa21

Where you at player. What’s your name and career stats. I’ll wait loser. Fraud

Where you at player. What’s your name and career stats. I’ll wait loser. Fraud
- Angus4444

Learn to read my stats are already in here

Dude do you just default to being a big Richard....

Ok you win Giroux should be outta of hockey he has absolutely no worth whatsoever!!!

Ok next argument with you
I will start
Black....Your turn....
Or the sky is blue, go explain how it is an optical illusion. Its A$$Hole$ like you that ruin forums like cause you just default to being a RICHARD! Go F yourself!!
Turn me in I wanna ban so I cant respond to your stupid anymore.
- konalover711

He has no value in a third line physical defensive role because it’s not his strength. Contending teams already have a elite top 6 which is why the contend. Furthermore, that’s why teams like last years cup winner Tampa trades for guys like goodrow, coleman, bogosian at the deadline because they want to get tougher to play against not smaller less physical. Learn the game

I gave a 15% cushion for things unrelated to offense related numbers. Kevin Hayes' possession Stats, believe it or not, were significantly better than last year, and also in relation to the team (his relative Corsi went from -3.5 to +0.1).

More to the point, whatever his defensive lapses were, they pale in comparison to NP's, which again suggests you have either a very low opinion of Patrick's ceiling or have been unfair to Hayes.
- PT21

I’m not sure what stats you are looking at...I could have placed Hayes with Myers but I listed him last because he was the only guy wearing a letter who underachieved that badly. I can’t remember a single positive full game from him from the end of March on. I know March was bad for most everyone, but going into the trade deadline and while there was still time to push for the playoffs, he was awful.

I don’t know what Corsi stats you are looking at but from the eye test his linemates propped him up. If I read this right, among forwards, only Patrick was better with Hayes than without.

https://www.naturalstattr...te=n&v=t&playerid=8475763

I’m not sure what stats you are looking at...I could have placed Hayes with Myers but I listed him last because he was the only guy wearing a letter who underachieved that badly. I can’t remember a single positive full game from him from the end of March on. I know March was bad for most everyone, but going into the trade deadline and while there was still time to push for the playoffs, he was awful.

I don’t know what Corsi stats you are looking at but from the eye test his linemates propped him up. If I read this right, among forwards, only Patrick was better with Hayes than without.

https://www.naturalstattr...te=n&v=t&playerid=8475763
- NC Flyers Fan

That pair to pair comparison is not very scientific, because the without will include someone like Couturier and Giroux.

I was looking at his Corsi/Fenwick, absolute and relative to team averages:

https://www.hockey-refere...h/hayeske01-advanced.html

I totally agree Hayes was in a fog most season. But what we are really arguing about is his relative ranking in the grade sheet, in particular, how come he finished worse than NP.

NP finished so low, that it was essentially close to the bottom. So, either you say you had very, very low expectations of NP (in which case you have to say he came close to meeting them and then he deserves a better grade) or you have to say that Hayes underachieved more, for which evidence is completely lacking.

Anyway!

He has no value in a third line physical defensive role because it’s not his strength. Contending teams already have a elite top 6 which is why the contend. Furthermore, that’s why teams like last years cup winner Tampa trades for guys like goodrow, coleman, bogosian at the deadline because they want to get tougher to play against not smaller less physical. Learn the game
- Fopa21

if contending teams already have elite 6, why did the bruins get Taylor hall?
. You can improve the top 6 even if contending.

He has no value in a third line physical defensive role because it’s not his strength. Contending teams already have a elite top 6 which is why the contend. Furthermore, that’s why teams like last years cup winner Tampa trades for guys like goodrow, coleman, bogosian at the deadline because they want to get tougher to play against not smaller less physical. Learn the game
- Fopa21

Caps added Mantha this year at TDL, and gave up a ransom. He is on their 2nd line. Boston acquired Hall - a guy who was a healthy scratch, and had a sh% of 2.9% this year (that is not a typo). Yes, that Sabres held back 50% of salary but that's a 4m player. Also on 2nd line.

Avs added Kadri 3 years ago, Burakovsky 2 years ago, and Saad last year. That is most to all of their 2nd line.

Blues added their top 2 centers: ROR and Schenn, via trades.

All these additions occurred while these teams were already contenders or very near so.

Caps added Mantha this year at TDL, and gave up a ransom. He is on their 2nd line. Boston acquired Hall - a guy who was a healthy scratch, and had a sh% of 2.9% this year (that is not a typo). Yes, that Sabres held back 50% of salary but that's a 4m player. Also on 2nd line.

Avs added Kadri 3 years ago, Burakovsky 2 years ago, and Saad last year. That is most to all of their 2nd line.

Blues added their top 2 centers: ROR and Schenn, via trades.

All these additions occurred while these teams were already contenders or very near so.
- PT21

Hall & mantha are the exceptions the others weren’t at the deadline. Colorado didn’t aquire as much as Toronto was looking to get rid of him. The other players Mantha included all bring a combination of size and or speed as well as the offensive game. Giroux a one dimensional offense only player doesn’t bring size speed physicality defense toughness. No one’s looking to add a forward who can’t do multiple things hence again him being left off of team Canada

That pair to pair comparison is not very scientific, because the without will include someone like Couturier and Giroux.

I was looking at his Corsi/Fenwick, absolute and relative to team averages:

https://www.hockey-refere...h/hayeske01-advanced.html

I totally agree Hayes was in a fog most season. But what we are really arguing about is his relative ranking in the grade sheet, in particular, how come he finished worse than NP.

NP finished so low, that it was essentially close to the bottom. So, either you say you had very, very low expectations of NP (in which case you have to say he came close to meeting them and then he deserves a better grade) or you have to say that Hayes underachieved more, for which evidence is completely lacking.

Anyway!

- PT21

I’m looking at 5 on 5 corsi. Hayes was negative. Sadly, maybe he isn’t very good, and I overrated him.

Thanks for depressing me by pointing this out.

You guys are fighting over semantics...
Giroux 2010-2015 Great to exceptional hockey player
Giroux 2016-2018 An ok to pretty decent hockey player
Giroux 2019-to next year and beyond an aging veteran who could be a nice addition to a team wanting experience etc to maybe win a cup somewhere else for a nice haul.
- konalover711

No we aren’t. And in that 16-18 period when he was “ok to pretty decent” he had a 102 point season. You’re joking.

Looks like Foerster is going to be okay for the start of next season. Sam Carchidi is reporting a separated collarbone. This is great news. I saw the replay, and it looked scary.
- NC Flyers Fan

Sam could walk outside in a downpour and not be able to report that it is raining where he currently is located at

I’m looking at 5 on 5 corsi. Hayes was negative. Sadly, maybe he isn’t very good, and I overrated him.

Thanks for depressing me by pointing this out.
- NC Flyers Fan

You are right. My bad. His relative Corsi is -, and a bit worse than last year, but in the same ballpark. My point was that if you are grading relative to expectations, and presumably expectations for a player like him cannot exceed his best years, then he really wasn't that much worse.

Hall & mantha are the exceptions the others weren’t at the deadline. Colorado didn’t aquire as much as Toronto was looking to get rid of him. The other players Mantha included all bring a combination of size and or speed as well as the offensive game. Giroux a one dimensional offense only player doesn’t bring size speed physicality defense toughness. No one’s looking to add a forward who can’t do multiple things hence again him being left off of team Canada
- Fopa21

You didn't say anything about TDL. You said we couldn't give Giroux away for free because there is no market amongst contending teams for top line forwards who don't have some kind of physical skills. That's silly.

And neither Taylor Hall nor Burakovsky are that physical at all. And when did Giroux become this soft floating perimeter player you seem to think he is?

You didn't say anything about TDL. You said we couldn't give Giroux away for free because there is no market amongst contending teams for top line forwards who don't have some kind of physical skills. That's silly.

And neither Taylor Hall nor Burakovsky are that physical at all. And when did Giroux become this soft floating perimeter player you seem to think he is?
- PT21

The second he got his big pay day. Come on bud you can’t sit here & say he is not a soft perimeter player. Have you watched one game in the past 5-7 years? Argue that you think he is a good leader but come on you can’t be serious with implying he’s not a perimeter player

The second he got his big pay day. Come on bud you can’t sit here & say he is not a soft perimeter player. Have you watched one game in the past 5-7 years? Argue that you think he is a good leader but come on you can’t be serious with implying he’s not a perimeter player
- Fopa21

I have seen pretty much every game he has ever played, either live or recorded. Sometimes he is lazy on backchecks, and he is not the first guy in on forechecks or land a crashing hit, but I have seen him sell out and scramble near the boards, and dive in to the paint innumerable times (remember game 6 against the Isles?). He is an intense competitor.

Its one thing to say he isn't as good as he was anointed to be. I would agree with that. Its quite another to say he is not good. If Giroux was on the Hawks team instead of Toews, for example, I believe the results would be identical, and he would be a first ballot HOFer. For all but a couple of contending team, he would be a great catch for their 2nd line, provided they were able to fit him. We might have to take back salary, but I feel we could definitely get a first and a prospect for him. Even now.

Anyway, I don't know why the hell I keep responding to this nonsense. I am out of this discussion.

I have seen pretty much every game he has ever played, either live or recorded. Sometimes he is lazy on backchecks, and he is not the first guy in on forechecks or land a crashing hit, but I have seen him sell out and scramble near the boards, and dive in to the paint innumerable times (remember game 6 against the Isles?). He is an intense competitor.

Its one thing to say he isn't as good as he was anointed to be. I would agree with that. Its quite another to say he is not good. If Giroux was on the Hawks team instead of Toews, for example, I believe the results would be identical, and he would be a first ballot HOFer. For all but a couple of contending team, he would be a great catch for their 2nd line, provided they were able to fit him. We might have to take back salary, but I feel we could definitely get a first and a prospect for him. Even now.

Anyway, I don't know why the hell I keep responding to this nonsense. I am out of this discussion.
- PT21

Zero zero zero zero chance you could get a first round pick for a 34 35 year old small slow defense free forward. That’s the most insane thing I’ve seen on here.


I agree if swap G for towes Chicago record stus relatively the same although I think it takes steps backwards. Captain serious leadership is exceptional. Which is why I believe the real effect would be seen with Towes having a better record with the Flyers than G has given his leadership/compete. He would not stand for loosing to buffalo over and over getting completely outplayed by the devils multiple times a year

Sam could walk outside in a downpour and not be able to report that it is raining where he currently is located at
- corduroy

I don’t know anything about his weather reports, but I think he was quoting Flahr so it’s safe.

Anyway, I don't know why the hell I keep responding to this nonsense. I am out of this discussion.
- PT21

Giroux is above average defensively. I just feel the need to voice that....it is a fact evidenced by every available fancy stat place, the eye test and logic. You don’t suppose all of those many coaches that the Flyers have had would all choose to play him on their PK if he wasn’t. He isn’t Couturier level but still very good defensively. Mostly it’s his super high compete level that gives him an edge.

Everyone always points out his offensive points which are significant. Also he makes some mistakes on defense but has more good moments there than bad. Anyone who has two observation brain cells to rub together and watches him play knows this.