For any of you knuckleheads "holding out" for Pfizer/Modena:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A
- gravyface

Wow.
Every person thinking about getting vaccine should watch that.

Provinces are responsible for heath care.

You imply that the feds are somehow shirking their responsibilities.

This is not the case.
- Atomic Wedgie

Fair enough, but I am also stating that the feds have dropped the ball on the 1 critical thing they had to do, while the provinces take all the heat for managing literally every aspect of the pandemic.

They can't have list and prioritize?
They have over a million government employees in Ontario, I'm sure more than few are sitting on their hands.
- bobbyisno1

You really want a provincial tax assessor administering iv drugs?

Fair enough, but I am also stating that the feds have dropped the ball on the 1 critical thing they had to do, while the provinces take all the heat for managing literally every aspect of the pandemic.
- Aetherial

Firstly, I don't think anybody is giving the Feds a pass on this.

Secondly, just because the government has a tough job doesn't make them immune to criticism.

Feds have procurements for 404M doses of vaccine. Problem is, it's impossible to ensure on-time delivery during a pandemic. Spoiled batches, "ramping up" changes at the plants etc have all delayed delivery. Canada's biggest issue is not producing our own vaccines. We can blames multiple iterations of Fed Govts for that.

Within Ontario, the health experts have said we can not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. The Prov needs to ensure people who might be infected are staying home. Closing parks and telling cops to randomly stop people was just stupid - proven by the cops refusal to do so and the backtracking by the Govt.

Ontario needs mandatory paid sick leave for workers so they stay home instead of coming to work and spreading their sickness.
- Nasty_Duck

So we can absolve the Feds because of the unknowns.

But let's blame the province for the spikes after every holiday and people ignore guidelines, blame them when they don't get enough vaccine and people can't book appointments, laugh at them when they try to secure some themselves, expect them to magically wish into existence the money to give everyone paid sick days.

The Feds had to do one thing, and they are forgiven because of circumstance. The provinces have to manage every aspect of the worst crisis in our lifetimes and they get crucified for making a mistake.

You won't get me to argue with stupid recent decisions... and NOW, we can't vaccinate our way out, sure.

I posted this yesterday and got no response.

CERB - Federal
EI - Federal
CPP - Federal
Workers Comp. - Federal
Existing paid sick days for workers - Federal (wholly inadequate, but Ford's fault apparently.

Paid Sick days during the pandemic. Provincial. ???
How (frank)ing convenient.

Recent budget 100B... nothing to the provinces for paid sick days and no improvements to the existing federal program.

Basically the feds have a program that poop and the province is being blamed for it. If this is not a Federal responsibility then why do they have an existing program?
- Aetherial

Feds have been going into debt a long way with the things you describe above. You want them to go further into debt?

No - the paid sick days should be the responsibility of the Province. Ford has been trying to pass the buck for a while now as more and more people get sick. He's finally pulled his head out of his a$$ and they are "working on something". Mostly because he's being shredded by everyone who is not a member of his party. Would not surprise me if he had internal pressure as well.

What I can't forgive is Ford's continuous lies about listen to the experts. He has not. The scientific Team has even said so.

You really want a provincial tax assessor administering iv drugs?
- Atomic Wedgie

pretty sure he wasn't saying that.

I have a relative that used to be tax auditor... great stories, but I wouldn't trust him with a needle.

Feds have been going into debt a long way with the things you describe above. You want them to go further into debt?

No - the paid sick days should be the responsibility of the Province. Ford has been trying to pass the buck for a while now as more and more people get sick. He's finally pulled his head out of his a$$ and they are "working on something". Mostly because he's being shredded by everyone who is not a member of his party. Would not surprise me if he had internal pressure as well.

What I can't forgive is Ford's continuous lies about listen to the experts. He has not. The scientific Team has even said so.
- Nasty_Duck

Given what I said above, what is your justification for the province being responsible for paid sick days? After that, please explain why there is an existing federal program, deemed to be inadequate.

Fair enough, but I am also stating that the feds have dropped the ball on the 1 critical thing they had to do, while the provinces take all the heat for managing literally every aspect of the pandemic.
- Aetherial

The feds didn’t really have a lot of options.

Earlier you were complaining that we didn’t sign agreements with the US for vaccines.

That wasn’t on the table, thanks to Trump.

PM Mulroney sold off our vaccine manufacturing capabilities.

Every federal government of every flavour after him ignored it.

That’s 95% of why we are playing catch-up on doses.

So we can absolve the Feds because of the unknowns.

But let's blame the province for the spikes after every holiday and people ignore guidelines, blame them when they don't get enough vaccine and people can't book appointments, laugh at them when they try to secure some themselves, expect them to magically wish into existence the money to give everyone paid sick days.

The Feds had to do one thing, and they are forgiven because of circumstance. The provinces have to manage every aspect of the worst crisis in our lifetimes and they get crucified for making a mistake.
- Aetherial

Ontario learned nothing from the 1st two waves. That is what we are blaming them for. They've had plenty of time to set up a proper registration system - and they franked the pooch on that too.

As much as you want to lay the blame on the Feds - Health care is the responsibility of the Provinces. They insisted on it being that way. So they need to figure it out and manage it better. Vaccines will help - but controlling the spread in the meantime is the most important factor.

I'm just waiting for the pushback on Pharmacare. Ontario won't be adopting that without a huge fight.

Given what I said above, what is your justification for the province being responsible for paid sick days? After that, please explain why there is an existing federal program, deemed to be inadequate.
- Aetherial

https://www.canada.ca/en/...n-legislative-powers.html

5. Court Interpretation of the Distribution of Legislative Powers
When a question arises as to whether a law enacted by Parliament or a provincial legislature comes within their respective constitutional powers, an authoritative answer can come only from the courts. Thus over the years, through the process of judicial review, the content and scope of the federal and provincial legislative powers have been clarified, defined, limited or expanded.

For example, the federal Trade and Commerce power (s. 91(2)) has been interpreted to mean that Parliament can regulate trade generally in Canada, as well as the flow of trade across provincial or international borders, but cannot regulate the operation of particular industries, businesses or professions within provinces. The provincial power over Property and civil rights (s. 92(13)) gives provinces the authority to regulate trade and commerce within their respective territory.

The feds have the power to provide a benefit, but they can't legislate on how business in the province operates

Did you mistype something here?

Oh yeah, and to be a Richard about it, you also said health is a provincial responsibility but the Feds were responsible for recommending distribution?? So whose fault is it when priorities changed ad people people start to realize that prioritizing hot spots should be the focus, not degree of risk.
- Aetherial

No, its a cool quote I came across which to me explains why vaccines can't solve the problem in the short term. On their own, vaccines protect the one person vaccinated while each person infected infects others as we've seen for the past year. Linear growth can"t keep up with exponential growth so we need the old remedies of closures, mask mandates, etc

If hot spots emerge, its up to the province to respond

Given what I said above, what is your justification for the province being responsible for paid sick days? After that, please explain why there is an existing federal program, deemed to be inadequate.
- Aetherial

Employment standards are a provincial jurisdiction.

Given what I said above, what is your justification for the province being responsible for paid sick days? After that, please explain why there is an existing federal program, deemed to be inadequate.
- Aetherial

Because paid sick days should be part of the health system.
Wedgie said it better than me.

The other things being paid for by the Feds are one-off bonuses. They are temporary measures. Think of them as a gift.

I'm sure the Feds would offer more money to Provinces with the condition the money be spent in specific ways. Provinces would decline as they don't want conditions tied to anything received. They want the last say in what to do with it, and always have.

Given what I said above, what is your justification for the province being responsible for paid sick days? After that, please explain why there is an existing federal program, deemed to be inadequate.
- Aetherial

Confederation is an incredibly messy system.

One great example: legalizing dope.

The feds could legalize it, because it was prohibited under federal law.

So they made it legal, but the provinces were largely left with the job of setting up all the rules for distribution and sales.

But the feds still regulate growers, and medicinal licenses. And packaging, including warning labels.

It’s a mess.

And I could give you 100 more examples, and Cupsie could give you 1,000.

Welcome to Canada.

Because paid sick days should be part of the health system.
Wedgie said it better than me.

The other things being paid for by the Feds are one-off bonuses. They are temporary measures. Think of them as a gift.

I'm sure the Feds would offer more money to Provinces with the condition the money be spent in specific ways. Provinces would decline as they don't want conditions tied to anything received. They want the last say in what to do with it, and always have.
- Nasty_Duck

This is exactly true. Ford is being blamed for not doing a good job at the part of the whole thing that is his job. If you are unhappy about vaccine procurement, blame Trudeau. But don't blame Trudeau for doing nothing when it comes to Ford doing his job

Because paid sick days should be part of the health system.
Wedgie said it better than me.

The other things being paid for by the Feds are one-off bonuses. They are temporary measures. Think of them as a gift.

I'm sure the Feds would offer more money to Provinces with the condition the money be spent in specific ways. Provinces would decline as they don't want conditions tied to anything received. They want the last say in what to do with it, and always have.
- Nasty_Duck

Sick days would be part of the employment system, not healthcare.

And people should get a paid day off after the vaccine, because I feel like absolute poop right now.

I was able to transfer to the couch at 4 pm, but if I was a bus driver or any other worker who actually did honest work, I’d be franked right now.

Killer headache.

The feds didn’t really have a lot of options.

Earlier you were complaining that we didn’t sign agreements with the US for vaccines.

That wasn’t on the table, thanks to Trump.

PM Mulroney sold off our vaccine manufacturing capabilities.

Every federal government of every flavour after him ignored it.

That’s 95% of why we are playing catch-up on doses.
- Atomic Wedgie

I still have research to do in this area. Some people disagree with this statement, but I would need to know more before having I can definitely agree.

I have heard it was Canada's reluctance to deal with Trump.

Sick days would be part of the employment system, not healthcare.

And people should get a paid day off after the vaccine, because I feel like absolute poop right now.

I was able to transfer to the couch at 4 pm, but if I was a bus driver or any other worker who actually did honest work, I’d be franked right now.

Killer headache.
- Atomic Wedgie

See my correction.

I had mine 3 hours ago and feel fine. How long until you felt effects?

This is exactly true. Ford is being blamed for not doing a good job at the part of the whole thing that is his job. If you are unhappy about vaccine procurement, blame Trudeau. But don't blame Trudeau for doing nothing when it comes to Ford doing his job
- Canada Cup

What I find strange is that the public loved the Dougie and Chrystia Friendship Show.

Poop was getting done, and his numbers were rising.

Why did he pivot?

This is exactly true. Ford is being blamed for not doing a good job at the part of the whole thing that is his job. If you are unhappy about vaccine procurement, blame Trudeau. But don't blame Trudeau for doing nothing when it comes to Ford doing his job
- Canada Cup

Dude, if it is provincial, why is there an existing federal program, that is inadequate.

I never see reasoning and I never here justification when comparing to the other Federal programs.

Also, where is the money for this. The Feds didn't include it in their 100B. The province gets money from the Feds.

See my correction.

I had mine 3 hours ago and feel fine. How long until you felt effects?
- Nasty_Duck

I got mine around noon yesterday.

Got a poop night’s sleep.

Woke up this morning just feeling sluggish.

Headache started around noon.

Had to shut ‘er down at 4 pm.

Hurts to read a screen (yet here I am on Hockeybuzz, because I am an idiot).

Dude, if it is provincial, why is there an existing federal program, that is inadequate.

I never see reasoning and I never here justification when comparing to the other Federal programs.

Also, where is the money for this. The Feds didn't include it in their 100B. The province gets money from the Feds.
- Aetherial

Feds can provide grants and benefits to people. ie. feds have the ability to hand out money.

Provinces are the only ones who are capable of coercing companies to pay employees for sick days.

Dude, if it is provincial, why is there an existing federal program, that is inadequate.

I never see reasoning and I never here justification when comparing to the other Federal programs.

Also, where is the money for this. The Feds didn't include it in their 100B. The province gets money from the Feds.
- Aetherial

Federal government introduced it as a stop-gap measure, in the absence of adequate provincial programs.

The fact that people like it didn’t hurt, either.

What I find strange is that the public loved the Dougie and Chrystia Friendship Show.

Poop was getting done, and his numbers were rising.

Why did he pivot?
- Atomic Wedgie

I am not sure he did.

I guess that is my point.

Numbers got worse, people got more sick and tired of all of this. Businesses went under, tempers are flaring.

The thing is, the entire world has gone through these cycles.

But soooo many people have managed to focus the blame for all of Ontario's problems and angst on one man.

As if a different person would have meant everything would be roses now, counter to, you know, the rest of the world.

Why didn't Trudeau give everyone a month to get home, pay for the airlines to make the flights and then shut the borders?