The nature of the distribution method, volume and storage capability differs widely across the province. Could they have had a better system, yeah sure. They also had no idea what or when they would receive vaccines.

So it is OK for the Fed's to off load responsibility for everything to the province, health care, distribution, sick day pay, dealing with shifting hotspots, but it is not OK for the Province to try to involve the health units?
- Aetherial

What the hell does Shoppers and Walmart have to do with health units and why do I have apply to them?
Ontario should be doing this, these pharmacies get to dole them out?
Number One employer in Ontario is the government, can't they figure this out?

The nature of the distribution method, volume and storage capability differs widely across the province. Could they have had a better system, yeah sure. They also had no idea what or when they would receive vaccines.

So it is OK for the Fed's to off load responsibility for everything to the province, health care, distribution, sick day pay, dealing with shifting hotspots, but it is not OK for the Province to try to involve the health units?
- Aetherial

First of all the feds aren’t offloading health care. If they tried to get involved every Premier would go ballistic.

Secondly, I never said there’s anything wrong with the province using the regional health system. I said I don’t think there’s a provincial delivery network anymore. If you have a good working system in Guelph because the province moved out responsibility, then that’s a good thing.

Federal governments don’t actually run things in Canada. That’s the way the country is set up.
- Canada Cup

That's the way the US is set up as well...

But everyone wanted to blame Trump for all the Covid deaths in the US.

I'm not absolving Trump of anything. But if he is responsible for the Covid fiasco in the USA, then Trudeau is responsible for Canada.

What the hell does Shoppers and Walmart have to do with health units and why do I have apply to them?
Ontario should be doing this, these pharmacies get to dole them out?
Number One employer in Ontario is the government, can't they figure this out?
- bobbyisno1

I’m really not sure the Province could be doing this anymore.

When it comes to the pandemic, the feds have responsibility for approving and securing vaccines (we have different views on how awfully they performed on that), on recommending priorities for vaccine distribution and for distributing to the provinces. I think that’s it.

Provinces have jurisdiction over everything else.
- Canada Cup

Whoa,

I asked yesterday how come the feds are not taking heat for shifting distribution to Ontario as a hotspot.

I was told that the distribution was up to the provinces to come to agreement. If that is not true, then I am back to my original question.

Also, they are responsible for recommending priorities for vaccine distribution? Really? Do you recall the screaming at Ford and the province for not shifting distribution to the hotspots?

You can't have it both ways.

If the feds are responsible for something, then people can't blame the Province. If the feds are not responsible for much... then what the F are they doing and how did they get a free pass.

Hey, you know which country has a surplus right now (mostly due to lower than expected uptake). The U.S. You know what country we do not have agreements with for the 3 vaccines we are using? Hmmm.

I’m really not sure the Province could be doing this anymore.
- Canada Cup

They can't have list and prioritize?
They have over a million government employees in Ontario, I'm sure more than few are sitting on their hands.

First of all the feds aren’t offloading health care. If they tried to get involved every Premier would go ballistic.

Secondly, I never said there’s anything wrong with the province using the regional health system. I said I don’t think there’s a provincial delivery network anymore. If you have a good working system in Guelph because the province moved out responsibility, then that’s a good thing.
- Canada Cup

Meh, Guelph is OK, but not much better than everyone else I am guessing. There is a university clinic, A couple clinics at large companies, and a couple groups of family doctors. Other than that, it is deal with the pharmacies, which is hit and miss, as other people have pointed out.

The biggest frustration with the pharmacies is that you can't book an appointment. The best you can do is go on a waitlist (unless you are fortunate to get a hit on the walmart site). The reason for that is pretty clear though, insecure supply.

Whoa,

I asked yesterday how come the feds are not taking heat for shifting distribution to Ontario as a hotspot.

I was told that the distribution was up to the provinces to come to agreement. If that is not true, then I am back to my original question.

Also, they are responsible for recommending priorities for vaccine distribution? Really? Do you recall the screaming at Ford and the province for not shifting distribution to the hotspots?

You can't have it both ways.

If the feds are responsible for something, then people can't blame the Province. If the feds are not responsible for much... then what the F are they doing and how did they get a free pass.

Hey, you know which country has a surplus right now (mostly due to lower than expected uptake). The U.S. You know what country we do not have agreements with for the 3 vaccines we are using? Hmmm.
- Aetherial

Here's question and its only a question.
Can Ford get an agreement with these American drug companies?

Meh, Guelph is OK, but not much better than everyone else I am guessing. There is a university clinic, A couple clinics at large companies, and a couple groups of family doctors. Other than that, it is deal with the pharmacies, which is hit and miss, as other people have pointed out.

The biggest frustration with the pharmacies is that you can't book an appointment. The best you can do is go on a waitlist (unless you are fortunate to get a hit on the walmart site). The reason for that is pretty clear though, insecure supply.
- Aetherial

And clinics at large companies in my opinion is a problem.
Will they not prioritize their employees first just keep the doors open that should have been closed in the first place.

They can't have list and prioritize?
They have over a million government employees in Ontario, I'm sure more than few are sitting on their hands.
- bobbyisno1

Time, set-up and training. You have thousands of people who are trained to deliver vaccines and the abllity to store them. Further, they already have well-established booking sites (despite the frustrations right now trying to get an appointment). I think they had to try to leverage that existing network due to the sheer scope of the area they are trying to cover.

And clinics at large companies in my opinion is a problem.
Will they not prioritize their employees first just keep the doors open that should have been closed in the first place.
- bobbyisno1

Fair question, I really don't know.

I am *guessing* they do this because they have large spaces? Also, I think it is still being run by the local health units though.

Whoa,

I asked yesterday how come the feds are not taking heat for shifting distribution to Ontario as a hotspot.

I was told that the distribution was up to the provinces to come to agreement. If that is not true, then I am back to my original question.

Also, they are responsible for recommending priorities for vaccine distribution? Really? Do you recall the screaming at Ford and the province for not shifting distribution to the hotspots?

You can't have it both ways.

If the feds are responsible for something, then people can't blame the Province. If the feds are not responsible for much... then what the F are they doing and how did they get a free pass.

Hey, you know which country has a surplus right now (mostly due to lower than expected uptake). The U.S. You know what country we do not have agreements with for the 3 vaccines we are using? Hmmm.
- Aetherial

I wasn't aware the provinces had agreed on a plan for distributing vaccines. Take that off the list of things they are responsible for. The fact remains, health is a provincial responsibility. Except for securing vaccines, this is Ford's show. and no, the US is not going to give up any more vaccines especially when J&J keeps having little production problems

Here's question and its only a question.
Can Ford get an agreement with these American drug companies?
- bobbyisno1

It is a really interesting question to be honest.

He can try, but who knows. Whether he would be successful or not is another question. The thing is, I am not so sure how far he will get since foreign companies have been dealing with the Federal government until now and who know whether they are willing to even talk to him, or what their contracts allow/don't allow. I highly doubt a company like IBM could go to Pfizer and just purchase 100,000 doses for their employees only.

If you want a conspiracy theory, here is a far fetched one... Trudeau will look HORRIBLE if Ford secures doses for Ontario. Don't believe for a second he is not doing everything he can t make sure that doesn't happen. Politics ALWAYS plays a huge part in what government chooses to do.

Y'all have no (frank)ing clue about this all

My currant and gooseberry shrubs are shipping on the 26th, pretty jacked up to get them in the ground and have some backyard snacks hopefully end of summer

So, like i said, they had 2 jobs.

Print CERB cheques
Sign contracts with no specifics, just sign lots of them, except of course, with the U.S, where they now have excess, but we don't have agreements with them.

Literally everything else is up to the provinces. Deal with distribution and healthcare, which is about 100 times more complex and confusing than what the feds have been required to do.
- Aetherial

Feds have procurements for 404M doses of vaccine. Problem is, it's impossible to ensure on-time delivery during a pandemic. Spoiled batches, "ramping up" changes at the plants etc have all delayed delivery. Canada's biggest issue is not producing our own vaccines. We can blames multiple iterations of Fed Govts for that.

Within Ontario, the health experts have said we can not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. The Prov needs to ensure people who might be infected are staying home. Closing parks and telling cops to randomly stop people was just stupid - proven by the cops refusal to do so and the backtracking by the Govt.

Ontario needs mandatory paid sick leave for workers so they stay home instead of coming to work and spreading their sickness.

That makes soon much sense since virus respects provincial borders.....
- MaximusAurelius

Tell that to the Provinces. They want control of healthcare. Why do you think we currently do not have Pharmacare?

I wasn't aware the provinces had agreed on a plan for distributing vaccines. Take that off the list of things they are responsible for. The fact remains, health is a provincial responsibility. Except for securing vaccines, this is Ford's show. and no, the US is not going to give up any more vaccines especially when J&J keeps having little production problems
- Canada Cup

I was not aware of the provincial thing either.

The U.S. is puzzling to be honest. You can get a vaccine anywhere now, over 16 years old and yet they have a huge gap in uptake. They literally have a surplus now. I agree that they aren't parting with them anytime soon, unless they start to be in danger of expiring. Would have been nice to have agreements in the U.S. though.

I *understand* that Trump was the president so there was hesitance to deal with the U.S., but I don't expect hindsight to be 20/20.

The province had by FAR the tougher job, and this province in particular but man is the provincial government catching heat.

Whose fault is it if people ignore health restrictions? Two big spikes after holidays now. Pretty sure that is driven by one thing... ignoring the restrictions.

Feds have procurements for 404M doses of vaccine. Problem is, it's impossible to ensure on-time delivery during a pandemic. Spoiled batches, "ramping up" changes at the plants etc have all delayed delivery. Canada's biggest issue is not producing our own vaccines. We can blames multiple iterations of Fed Govts for that.

Within Ontario, the health experts have said we can not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. The Prov needs to ensure people who might be infected are staying home. Closing parks and telling cops to randomly stop people was just stupid - proven by the cops refusal to do so and the backtracking by the Govt.

Ontario needs mandatory paid sick leave for workers so they stay home instead of coming to work and spreading their sickness.
- Nasty_Duck

You can rely on a linear solution (vaccines) when cases growing exponentially again

For any of you knuckleheads "holding out" for Pfizer/Modena:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A

Feds have procurements for 404M doses of vaccine. Problem is, it's impossible to ensure on-time delivery during a pandemic. Spoiled batches, "ramping up" changes at the plants etc have all delayed delivery. Canada's biggest issue is not producing our own vaccines. We can blames multiple iterations of Fed Govts for that.

Within Ontario, the health experts have said we can not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. The Prov needs to ensure people who might be infected are staying home. Closing parks and telling cops to randomly stop people was just stupid - proven by the cops refusal to do so and the backtracking by the Govt.

Ontario needs mandatory paid sick leave for workers so they stay home instead of coming to work and spreading their sickness.
- Nasty_Duck

You won't get me to argue with stupid recent decisions... and NOW, we can't vaccinate our way out, sure.

I posted this yesterday and got no response.

CERB - Federal
EI - Federal
CPP - Federal
Workers Comp. - Federal
Existing paid sick days for workers - Federal (wholly inadequate, but Ford's fault apparently.

Paid Sick days during the pandemic. Provincial. ???
How (frank)ing convenient.

Recent budget 100B... nothing to the provinces for paid sick days and no improvements to the existing federal program.

Basically the feds have a program that poop and the province is being blamed for it. If this is not a Federal responsibility then why do they have an existing program?

You can rely on a linear solution (vaccines) when cases growing exponentially again
- Canada Cup

Did you mistype something here?

Oh yeah, and to be a Richard about it, you also said health is a provincial responsibility but the Feds were responsible for recommending distribution?? So whose fault is it when priorities changed ad people people start to realize that prioritizing hot spots should be the focus, not degree of risk.

Federal government

*print CERB cheques
*Make flimsy agreements to purchase a few hundred million doses

OK our work is done! Great half day of effort. We'll let the provinces deal with everything else and take all the criticism.
- Aetherial

Provinces are responsible for heath care.

You imply that the feds are somehow shirking their responsibilities.

This is not the case.

Provinces are responsible for heath care.

You imply that the feds are somehow shirking their responsibilities.

This is not the case.
- Atomic Wedgie

Tax deadline extension would be nice.

I was not aware of the provincial thing either.

The U.S. is puzzling to be honest. You can get a vaccine anywhere now, over 16 years old and yet they have a huge gap in uptake. They literally have a surplus now. I agree that they aren't parting with them anytime soon, unless they start to be in danger of expiring. Would have been nice to have agreements in the U.S. though.

I *understand* that Trump was the president so there was hesitance to deal with the U.S., but I don't expect hindsight to be 20/20.

The province had by FAR the tougher job, and this province in particular but man is the provincial government catching heat.

Whose fault is it if people ignore health restrictions? Two big spikes after holidays now. Pretty sure that is driven by one thing... ignoring the restrictions.
- Aetherial

I don't blame Ford for kids partying. I don't even blame Ford for this latest surge. I'm not sure that anything he could have done would have completely prevented it. I blame him for not taking steps that would have significantly reduced its impact.