That is precisely the difference between LA Hextall and Flyers Hextall. I have heard off-hand comparisons here that Hextall was following the same model that he was part of implementing in LA. That is absolutely not true.

Hextall joined LA in 2006. From 2003-2009 (6 years), LA did not make the playoffs. This would of course mean the first 3 years of his reign. They did not try to "stay competitive" and hope for luck in their draft picks.

From that 6 year period came: Brown (#13), Kopitar (#11), Quick (#72), Doughty (#2) and Schenn (#5), who was the centerpiece of the Richards trade.

They built their non-goalie championship core by picking high. As essentially everyone does. Then they added around it with players like Williams, Carter, Richards and so on.
- PT21

Doughty and Schenn are the only top five picks you listed. That is one more than the Flyers during Hexy’s reign. So missing the playoffs for six straight years netted one extra top five pick? Seems to against your argument.

Fletcher will have very little cap space to work with this summer. Players with NMC, players they will have to eat money to move etc.

Outside of trading Couturier or Provorov what can he do to bring back an impact player?
- PLindbergh31

Seattle will have to get to the cap floor. Unfortunately, that means trading picks (even 1st rounder in 2022 and/or 2023) and/or prospects for a return mainly of cap space.

In terms of cap space opening up, Gustafsson's $3M, and Raffl's $1.6 million were coming off this summer regardless and the Flyers get $1.97 million freed up by the end of Andrew MacDonald's buyout, another $600K from David Schlemko's buyout ending (nearly enough to offset Scott Laughton's $700K raise). Prosser's $700K comes off as a UFA. Elliott ($1.5M) is a UFA this summer but will need to be replaced.

Patrick is an RFA but has no leverage for much of a raise, if any. Not sure where they'll go with Sanheim (arbitration eligible) and Hart (not arb eligible) as RFAs.

Do you have evidence of falling profits? Flyers attendance before 2019-20 stayed in the top 6 in each of the previous 5 seasons.

I don't know. I am just asking. Most NHL clubs get revenue from tix sales. With sales that high, I don't see much scope for fall.
- PT21

LOL. Yes, they played last year after the reset and most of this season without any fans at all. Are you seriously asking for evidence of failing profits? Why is there a flat cap and a projection to remain flat for the next 2-3 years? Because profits and revenue is up?

Good hockey teams are built from the goalie and back end first. Hart is talented, young, and with a strong D playing in front of him will be just fine. I’d like to see the Flyers make a strong push this off season to really bolster the D, perhaps pry Seth Jones from CLB to start. It would cost us assets, I know, but whatever/whoever they have now isn’t working.

Doughty and Schenn are the only top five picks you listed. That is one more than the Flyers during Hexy’s reign. So missing the playoffs for six straight years netted one extra top five pick? Seems to against your argument.
- mickel25

We are again straying into the same fallacy: that netting top 5 picks guarantees cups. Nothing guarantees anything. But your odds improve.

Odds increase as you pick higher, and they seem to exponentially increase near the very top. LA picked much higher than us on average. This shows up not just in higher fist round picks but throughout the draft.

In other words, they played with better odds and unsurprisingly, showed better outcomes.

Good hockey teams are built from the goalie and back end first. Hart is talented, young, and with a strong D playing in front of him will be just fine. I’d like to see the Flyers make a strong push this off season to really bolster the D, perhaps pry Seth Jones from CLB to start. It would cost us assets, I know, but whatever/whoever they have now isn’t working.
- BroadSTmayhem

Penguins say hi and giggle.

We are again straying into the same fallacy: that netting top 5 picks guarantees cups. Nothing guarantees anything. But your odds improve.

Odds increase as you pick higher, and they seem to exponentially increase near the very top. LA picked much higher than us on average. This shows up not just in higher fist round picks but throughout the draft.

In other words, they played with better odds and unsurprisingly, showed better outcomes.
- PT21

No, that's not at all what he is saying. That's just what you're hearing. What he is saying is pretty clear.

Do you speak/read Finnish and/or Swedish?
- PT21

Swedish, yes. Self-taught since 1996. Never thought I'd parlay that into two book projects -- translating "Pelle Lindbergh: Bakom den Vita Masken" and then rewriting portions into "Pelle Lindbergh: Behind the White Mask" and then especially never thought I'd be translating the born-again-Christian testament of a Swedish rapper/ career criminal and drug addict that the publisher wanted to release in English to an American readership; which was way, way, way out of comfort zone but turned out to be intriguing little project for precisely that reason).

Goes to show that you never know where something can lead.

I tried Finnish, too, but it was too difficult.

I was certain that the latter would be related somehow.
- Hextall271

Every time I hear their names it takes me right back to hearing Gene Hart say their names during broadcasts. I always liked the way the names sounded.

Just have to put this out there... a lot of people are analyzing and complaining about the young players. People most of them are slotted wrong and player where they shouldn’t. Bee isn’t ready for top line role. Sanheim Myers aren’t ready for top steady roles. Patrick is and has been a bust please stop thinking he’s not. We need a true top dman a true top center (sorry mjl coots is not one) and we need a true top line goal scoring winger.
- SMS4016

Only in your world is a 70-80 point 30 goal Selke winner not a top center.

Penguins say hi and giggle.
- Glak18

As does Chicago.

Swedish, yes. Self-taught since 1996. Never thought I'd parlay that into two book projects -- translating "Pelle Lindbergh: Bakom den Vita Masken" and then rewriting portions into "Pelle Lindbergh: Behind the White Mask" and then especially never thought I'd be translating the born-again-Christian testament of a Swedish rapper/ career criminal and drug addict that the publisher wanted to release in English to an American readership; which was way, way, way out of comfort zone but turned out to be intriguing little project for precisely that reason).

Goes to show that you never know where something can lead.

I tried Finnish, too, but it was too difficult.
- bmeltzer

Much respect, Bill.

Finnish is a horrendously difficult language. One of my closest friends was Finnish (I say was because we have fallen out of touch and he has a large family now) and I became aware through him how visceral is the competitiveness and latent animosity between Sweden and Finland, and how the syntax of Finnish is apparently closest to the syntax of Korean!

The fact that Holmgren and Clarke are still pulling strings in this organization is proof positive of how inept Comcast is at running this franchise. Those two got us into this mess originally with all the crappy contracts. Maybe Mr. Snider didn’t help with his win now at any cost attitude. But Hexy had to dig out of a mess but these two guys are still pulling the strings. When Hexy was too patient, they got rid of him. Now we are stuck on stupid.
- section32

3 times stupid and stuck on dumb

We are again straying into the same fallacy: that netting top 5 picks guarantees cups. Nothing guarantees anything. But your odds improve.

Odds increase as you pick higher, and they seem to exponentially increase near the very top. LA picked much higher than us on average. This shows up not just in higher fist round picks but throughout the draft.

In other words, they played with better odds and unsurprisingly, showed better outcomes.
- PT21

Keep in mind that is was 9 years from 2003 to 2012. It took a major roster shakeup to put the Kings over the top before winning a cup.

It’s a very similar point for the Flyers going into year 8 (since Hexy was hired) right now. They need to shake up the roster.

The Flyers drafted 17, 7, 24, 22, 2, 27, 14, 19, 14, 23 in the first round during that time period. Wouldn’t odds improve by having multiple first round picks as well?

Fletcher will have very little cap space to work with this summer. Players with NMC, players they will have to eat money to move etc.

Outside of trading Couturier or Provorov what can he do to bring back an impact player?
- PLindbergh31

I wish more people realized this instead of just demanding "change." I'm sure Fletcher sees everything that we see and agrees 110% that the team needs an overhaul, BUT he needs a trade partner. Other GMs aren't idiots. They aren't going to give us stud prospects for our overpriced and underperforming 30 year old players WITH TERM remaining because they feel bad for us. Hell, no one took Ghost FOR FREE. The only players that another GM would want are exactly those players that you wouldn't want to trade. Sorry peeps, but this isn't getting "fixed" over the summer, either. The salary cap has ruined the sport and the Flyers (from top to bottom) have no answers. At this point the only real hope/prayer that we have is that our prospects make an impact. I better start going to church, I guess...

Only in your world is a 70-80 point 30 goal Selke winner not a top center.
- MJL

I think even if Couts didn't win the Selke, he is still a top center in the league. He is 13th in ppg among centers, and that's not even talking about his defense.

These blowout non competitive losses are becoming the norm, not the exception.
There isn't another team in the League that gets destroyed routinely like this team.

There is zero accountability. Why has no one taken responsibility for this dumpster fire? After getting embarrassed by the Sabres on Sunday, where Giroux melted down with a lazy icing, then proceeded to lose a defensive zone faceoff, then get beaten to the net by Jeff Skinner for the game tying goal. How does he respond last night? -3 simply going through the motions.

Players, coaches and management have become accepting of this garbage. Vigneault offers the excuse of the schedule in his post game last night. The Caps played their 8th game in 13 days last night.
-PLindbergh31

I certainly think the players have accepted the garbage, but I don't think its fair to say the coaches and management has accepted it. AV came here to win a Cup, the only thing he has not done. I know he is not accepting of this, and I am sure Fletcher will not be accepting of it. If the players want out of Philly, they should keep playing like they are, with no pride, and Fletcher will and should accommodate them.

Do you have evidence of falling profits? Flyers attendance before 2019-20 stayed in the top 6 in each of the previous 5 seasons.

I don't know. I am just asking. Most NHL clubs get revenue from tix sales. With sales that high, I don't see much scope for fall.
- PT21

The only revenue lost the past decade, compared to the preceding ones, is the loss of playoff revenue. Since 2012, the Flyers have only had 7 or 8 home playoff games. That does cost them some cash. Overall though, they were probably still turning a profit.

We are again straying into the same fallacy: that netting top 5 picks guarantees cups. Nothing guarantees anything. But your odds improve.

Odds increase as you pick higher, and they seem to exponentially increase near the very top. LA picked much higher than us on average. This shows up not just in higher fist round picks but throughout the draft.

In other words, they played with better odds and unsurprisingly, showed better outcomes.
- PT21

Someone posted this on reddit this morning, so take it with a grain of salt (superstar being subjective). Hope this works, I never posted image link before

[/img]https://www.reddit.com/r/...roid_app&utm_source=share

I wonder if we'll see the return of "Back With a Vengeance"!

I still have my t-shirt from the last time the organization collapsed!
- MrBuzzcut

Maybe. I d guess “ back from the dead” or vacation is over.

In seriousness.

No excuses.

Compete

Blood and sweat.

Pride

Reckoning.

But will it matter? Just a slogan.

Here is a fact that shows how non competitive this team is.

Flyers have lost 7 games by 5 goals or more. 7 out of 42 games. So once in every 6 games they are losing by 5 goals or more. 17% of the games.

The Buffalo Sabres who had an 18 game losing streak, have lost 1 game in 42 by 5 goals or more.
- PLindbergh31

This team is up there with the 06/07 disaster that finished dead last. That team surprisingly only lost 5 games by 5 goals or more in an 82 game season. This team has them beat in half the time, and they still have a month left to play. It's going to get worse before it gets better

As does Chicago.
- PT21

Ouch that's right Nemi. Detroit was able to win with Osgood and Vernon too.

Keep in mind that is was 9 years from 2003 to 2012. It took a major roster shakeup to put the Kings over the top before winning a cup.

It’s a very similar point for the Flyers going into year 8 (since Hexy was hired) right now. They need to shake up the roster.

The Flyers drafted 17, 7, 24, 22, 2, 27, 14, 19, 14, 23 in the first round during that time period. Wouldn’t odds improve by having multiple first round picks as well?
- mickel25

I answer your points in bolded order.

1. Sorry, 9 year for what? They started making the playoffs from 2010. They scooped a lot of sand in areas where there is more likelihood of gold, and found it. Then they started the process.

2. It is much easier to do "major roster shakeups" when you have players like Doughty and Kopitar and Quick entering their prime almost concurrently. Then, the roster shake up consists of supplementary pieces, but the core is solid. Our core is not comparable. Its not even in the same planet.

3. No, because of the last statement above.

4. Not if the odds were exponential as I mentioned earlier. Absolutely not. Indeed, if you look at the value chart of the NHL draft picks, you do see an exponential relationship especially at the top end.

Ouch that's right Nemi. Detroit was able to win with Osgood and Vernon too.
- Glak18

I thought of Detroit, but then they had good old #5 throughout, so I ruled them out.

I wish more people realized this instead of just demanding "change." I'm sure Fletcher sees everything that we see and agrees 110% that the team needs an overhaul, BUT he needs a trade partner. Other GMs aren't idiots. They aren't going to give us stud prospects for our overpriced and underperforming 30 year old players WITH TERM remaining because they feel bad for us. Hell, no one took Ghost FOR FREE. The only players that another GM would want are exactly those players that you wouldn't want to trade. Sorry peeps, but this isn't getting "fixed" over the summer, either. The salary cap has ruined the sport and the Flyers (from top to bottom) have no answers. At this point the only real hope/prayer that we have is that our prospects make an impact. I better start going to church, I guess...
- daddytc

Good post. People seem to think Fletcher is going to wave a magic wand and fix this mess over the summer. It's not happening.