Bill, everyone under 25 has taken a step back, except perhaps for Bee, and he has plateaued considerably in the last 15 odd games in both stats and the eye test.

In light of this, it is going to be at least another 2 years before we even know for instance, whether TK can be a reliable 1st line winger, or whether Provorov can be your #1D for a contending club, and whether Hart is a stud or at best an average starting goalie and so on.

At this point, we simply do not know what we have, and rationally speaking, if you were a betting man, it seems there are significant chances that the answer to all of the questions above are the ones we don't like.

Would you agree?
- PT21

Start a parade dip shut.

I’m not even looking for a big fish this summer. Jake is the obvious one to go this summer. Retain money. Say goodbye to G after next year and possibly move him at the deadline. JVR showed enough to stay another year. Put him on notice to keep up the two way play. Ponying up for Seth jones next summer, I’d be ok with that.

Resign coots? Prob not much of a choice The thing there is we are lumbering down the middle with him and Hayes. That sucks
- Just5

I'm going into next year with zero expectations. I have no idea what this team is.

Hoping Frost can pass Hayes on the depth chart after a year of experience. Couts is a great #1. He is a play driver, almost doesnt matter who he is playing with.
- bradster

People seem really high on frost. Another frail body type this franchise has put their eggs in. I’m not holding out much hope

Point is far better than Couturier. And please don't quote me this season's statistics.

Kuznetsov is a 2C.

So, we are, once again.... back to the 4-cleaf clover aka Blues. But even there, ROR played 2C at least in playoffs which I rememeber (Schenn was their 1c).
- PT21

Couts is 13th at points per game for centers. If thats isnt a #1, I dont know your grading scale. And thats not even talking about his D

Jones may not want to re-up there. Lot of other guys have already asked out. If that's the case, then they'll probably try to get something for him this summer or at the next TDL before losing him for nothing.

Jones is pretty good, but he's probably gonna ask for Drew Doughty money. Anybody here comfortable paying him 9-11M AAV?
- Tomahawk

By the way, who is playing long term high-priced veteran on the current super young Wings squad? Filipulla?

Today Sucked with a S. What are the chances of tomorrow night’s game being a cheerful event?
- NC Flyers Fan

You aren't planning on celebrating Carter's hat-trick?

Couts is 13th at points per game for centers. If thats isnt a #1, I dont know your grading scale. And thats not even talking about his D
- bradster

Couts was ranked 26th in 5-on-5 points/60 over the past 4 years.

Chucking out guys who are basically (or have moved to) wing, he finished 17th.

I posed the stat from Naturalstattrick a few days ago.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I am certainly not saying he is not a legit 1c. He absolutely is.

Just maybe not championship quality 1c. If he is going to be that, the team has to be structurally very different. It has to be more the Blues/CBJ/5-year-ago-Preds mode.

Point is far better than Couturier. And please don't quote me this season's statistics.

Kuznetsov is a 2C.

So, we are, once again.... back to the 4-cleaf clover aka Blues. But even there, ROR played 2C at least in playoffs which I rememeber (Schenn was their 1c).
- PT21

I used my impact players list again, and pulled up some centers. Couturier isn’t as good offensively as some, but comparable or better than others. I didn’t look up where each played in the lineup (2C)...if they made it on my list then they must have outperformed the top of their team lineup. Definitely the case for OReilly over Schenn. Depth, fit, and coaching...lots of other impacts also.

Post taken from another site. Seems to fit. Just the caliber of team and players fit the bill

“It sounds like you have the "Muskoka Five" situation the Leafs had in the early 2000’s. The five highest salaried players were accused of simply not really caring about winning, but more about getting paid and the season over with, and then heading to Muskoka for the summer. Muskoka is a district about a three hour drive north of Toronto known for its many lakes, golf courses, and elaborate summer residences of the wealthy from Toronto.

The Muskoka Five became the villains of the team: Darcy Tucker, Bryan McCabe, Mats Sundin, Tomas Kaberle, and Pavel Kubina. They all owned million dollar summer cottages there, all within a few miles of each other.”
- Just5

I ran into to Tucker and his brother in law Shane Corson up there. Shopping for groceries...poop faced...lol. It’s a gorgeous area ....not every cottage is elaborate, although there are some pretty nice ones. Eric Lindros had a great spot up there as well...still does actually. Some of the boat houses were worth more then a million bucks...There’s like 50 NHL guys that have cottages in the area....lake Rosseau, Lake Joe and Muskoka lake....they all kind of connect ...it’s probably only an hour and 20 minutes from my place..

Predictions on what we have to give up for Voracek to go to Seattle? That's my guess on what happens.

2 mil withheld + 2022 1st rounder?
2 mil + mid-level prospect?
3.5 mil withheld?

In fact?

Kopitar no 100 pt seasons.
Bergeron has never broken 80pts.
Datsyuk's the only one to have come close, but he never topped 100 either.




- Tomahawk

Re: Coots

What a waste. Selke winner on a team who’s D is so bad it doesn’t even matter. I’d almost rather swap him for a big point producer so we can at least try to outgun other teams.

Predictions on what we have to give up for Voracek to go to Seattle? That's my guess on what happens.

2 mil withheld + 2022 1st rounder?
2 mil + mid-level prospect?
3.5 mil withheld?
- PT21

I can’t part with a 1st rounder with how bad this team has been. Even if it’s lotto protected next year there is no guarantee the 2023 pick won’t be a high pick as well at this rate.

I’d eat some money off his contract to make him attractive to them and have Seattle trade us back a cheap, cost effective player of some sort. Probably the most realistic way it gets done. I think it will be easier to talk them into JVR tho fwiw

Predictions on what we have to give up for Voracek to go to Seattle? That's my guess on what happens.

2 mil withheld + 2022 1st rounder?
2 mil + mid-level prospect?
3.5 mil withheld?
- PT21

If we add all 3 options together, then they might consider taking him off our hands.



(I'm joking)

From Keith Jones in last night's post game.

"This is a team that demonstrated it didn't want it as bad as their opponents and have pout their GM in a position where he couldn't go out and add to the nucleus of the team right now. Its too big of a deal he has to make. Its not as simple as add a player at the deadline and fix this thing. This is a team in need of a major makeover and its going to be a busy offseason for Chuck Fletcher. This is not something you fix overnight or something you can fix in a week. This season has turned into an disaster and is not what any of us saw coming."

And I believe it must start with a change of leadership. 5 coaches in and the same problems persist, and the one constant through all of this ... the team leadership.
- jd250

That’s says everything you need to know about where this organization is and wher it has to go.

Re: Coots

What a waste. Selke winner on a team who’s D is so bad it doesn’t even matter. I’d almost rather swap him for a big point producer so we can at least try to outgun other teams.
- hereticpride

Trade him! Do the rebuild right this time around! You guys are gonna come around to this eventually.

Cirelli+ if TB loses.

Newhook+ if Avs lose

If a team like Carolina gets closer than expected, they will be looking for a quality 2C and they have lots of good prospects.

Else, 2 firsts+ from anyone.

Next 2-3 years: lots of $ shed, lots of picks attained, lots of chaff from wheat separated in our young 'uns.

Then make some critical supplementary signings.

Resign Giroux to play vet nanny.

I'm going into next year with zero expectations. I have no idea what this team is.
- DrMidnite

It’s not like we have had many pandemic stoppages during my lifetime and seen the wide range of effects all those changes had. It appears, thankfully for us, that it is a shortened season, and we can move on and see some of these young players.

I really hope that some of how bad it has been is an anomaly. I do hope Fletcher has a productive offseason and fills the obvious holes this time around as well. I don’t know how realistic losing more than possibly 1 of the large contracts really is. Then, I guess we’ll see.

Couts was ranked 26th in 5-on-5 points/60 over the past 4 years.

Chucking out guys who are basically (or have moved to) wing, he finished 17th.

I posed the stat from Naturalstattrick a few days ago.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I am certainly not saying he is not a legit 1c. He absolutely is.

Just maybe not championship quality 1c. If he is going to be that, the team has to be structurally very different. It has to be more the Blues/CBJ/5-year-ago-Preds mode.
- PT21

26th center or just 26 overall?

Resign Giroux to play vet nanny.
- PT21

At least each of our visions involves keeping Giroux. That’s something right!

26th center or just 26 overall?
- bradster

Center.

By the way, who is playing long term high-priced veteran on the current super young Wings squad? Filipulla?
- PT21

Zetterberg would still be playing if not for the back.

Nielsen, Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Nielsen, Weiss, Helm, etc.

Difference between those guys and Coots is... Coots is still (frank)ing good.

At least each of our visions involves keeping Giroux. That’s something right!
- NC Flyers Fan

It's sort of my concession to those who clamor for "veteran presence" on the club. I would much rather trade Giroux. I don't see why we can't sign a guy like Eric Staal from year to year for something like that. Get Chara. They will probably instill more visible pride than Giroux.

You are not supposed to be "competitive" during rebuilds. Each good player you keep lowers your expected draft position. Seems half-assed to me.

I am convinced that if the franchise is honest about rebuilding and asks for patience and support people will buy into it.

Nielsen, Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Nielsen, Weiss, Helm, etc.

Difference between those guys and Coots is... Coots is (frank)ing good.
- Tomahawk

Exactly: Good = Loooong contract + lotsa money + worse draft position - which none of the guys you mentioned applies to as much as our dressmaker dude.

In fact?

Kopitar no 100 pt seasons.
Bergeron has never broken 80pts.
Datsyuk's the only one to have come close, but he never topped 100 either.




- Tomahawk

ADD Bergeron has who on his wings?

Exactly: Good = Loooong contract + lotsa money + worse draft position - which none of the guys you mentioned applies to as much as our dressmaker dude.
- PT21

Take Coots away and they're still not bad enough to be picking top-5.