I think the competition in that Division is pretty poopty.
- PLindbergh31

Winnipeg is a very good team....Montreal is better this year then the team that gave the Flyers fits last year in the playoffs....Edmonton is also playing good...Calgary and Vancouver both have had off years but do have a lot of talent and Ottawa has gotten better as the year has gone on....fun team to watch. So while I agree that a couple of teams have not been great, the division isn’t as bad as some keep saying....the hockey it self has been great to watch...

Bill,

I will respectfully take issue with your reasoning. The issue is not about the individual performances of Giroux and Voracek and whether they deserved the contracts. Both arguably did, especially Roo.

But you give out those contracts when you truly believe such contracts are going to be the backbone of at least 1 cup run during the life of the contract. You cannot look at them in isolation. If you give them out, you have to do the rest of what it takes to produce a contending club. And if you are unwilling or unable to do that, you have to take a look ahead, and not give those contracts out.

Flyers had a muddled organizational vision. They handed out long contracts and then went into a disguised rebuild. Each force acted against the other. The good players prevented high picks. The rebuild prevented the good players from realizing their potential.
- PT21

When Homer signed Giroux to the extension, he had just come off a Hart Trophy finalist season and the team was not in (partial) rebuild mode yet. The seven-game loss to the Rangers in the first round on 2014, Timonen's durability finally declining, Pronger two years gone at that point, and a barren farm system prompted a change in course.

With Voracek and Hextall, Ron originally called it a three-year partial rebuild, which became four. By year five (Voracek still age 28), he signed JVR figuring the team was ready to go further, if not quite to the level where they could come out of the east. That year turned disastrous. Last season, Fletcher added Hayes long-term, Niskanen on a two-year plan and Braun intended as a one-year stopgap. The team improved significantly during the regular season, got within a win of the Eastern Conference Final; essentially where Hextall thought they could get a year prior.

We know what's happened this year. But Hextall thought, both publicly and privately, the Flyers would be Cup contenders by 2019-20 or 2020-21. Fletcher had a pretty similar read, and this season has largely been another 2018-19. So there were miscalculations made.... hard to dispute that.

Since there's no real consequences for sustained mediocrity in the National Ho-Hum League- in fact it's rewarded for franchises like EDM, PIT, BUF what with their perennial lottery runs - then what can really be done to make a structural difference?

Coaches will coach or become pundits somewhere else, players will find work somewhere else, but the only consistency is this vector of millionaire/billionaire franchises that prop one another up year in, year out with a set of success metrics that are more suited for spreadsheets than souls. And how much revenue will they continue to rake in?

The Philadelphia Flyers brand has been sailing on a mediocrity meteor for basically 12 years now with so little to show for except probably pretty budget reports. Until this sport implements some fundamental changes to foster an actually competitive league again, it's just pointless argie-bargie.
- countreeman28

Are you yet another closeted Brit in this forum? No American says argie-bargie.

He is not devoid of skill but not strong on the hockey sense or focus departments. Can be effective on the forecheck and the physical game. However, he cannot be relied on as a penalty killer, so he's not on the PK. Doesn't score enough at the NHL level to regularly move higher in the lineup. Tenacious when he sets his mind to it, gets a little disengaged at other times. Not consistent in the details-oriented stuff he needs to execute game-in and game-out. Prone to bad penalties.

The coaches stayed on him constantly last season and got some results from him after his recall. This season, the hope was that he could be allowed more slack. But it has ended up that he has to be stayed on with some frequency -- which often falls to Lappy, because he's got a good relationship with NAK -- and the returns have not been as good.
- bmeltzer

So in other words a borderline 4th line NHL player.

At some point, they'll have to beat Boston or Tampa Bay. I'm not convinced that they can do that.
- CupOnBroadSt.

Boston I think the leafs have added players that make them better....but Tampa to me is still the best team in the east....out west...Vegas or Colorado.

I know that GMs pretty much always back coaching staffs publicly. But, if Fletcher can’t look at our special teams and not see that new assistants are needed, then he’s just incompetent.
- BiggE

The PK was a team strength a year ago after years of being lousy. Back to being lousy this season. Actually and, at long last, this past week, the PK has looked like it did most of last season (where the hell was it all season?): not just avoiding getting scored on but making entries tough, shutting down the lanes and getting some shorthanded counters of their own.

Power play, well, remains prone to going AWOL but the overall percentage isn't disastrous this season. Underachieving but not disastrous.

When Homer signed Giroux to the extension, he had just come off a Hart Trophy finalist season and the team was not in (partial) rebuild mode yet. The seven-game loss to the Rangers in the first round on 2014, Timonen's durability finally declining, Pronger two years gone at that point, and a barren farm system prompted a change in course.

With Voracek and Hextall, Ron originally called it a three-year partial rebuild, which became four. By year five (Voracek still age 28), he signed JVR figuring the team was ready to go further, if not quite to the level where they could come out of the east. That year turned disastrous. Last season, Fletcher added Hayes long-term, Niskanen on a two-year plan and Braun intended as a one-year stopgap. The team improved significantly during the regular season, got within a win of the Eastern Conference Final; essentially where Hextall thought they could get a year prior.

We know what's happened this year. But Hextall thought, both publicly and privately, the Flyers would be Cup contenders by 2019-20 or 2020-21. Fletcher had a pretty similar read, and this season has largely been another 2018-19. So there were miscalculations made.... hard to dispute that.
- bmeltzer

So after Rangers in 2014, they though they could do only a 3 year rebuild, and that too partial, and thought they could reasonably contend?

What were they smoking?

Bill, there is a talent deficit on the club. But there is an even bigger talent deficit up top from what you are saying. Everything you are saying smacks of a tremendously muddled vision/assessment or cynical brand management or both.

At some point, they'll have to beat Boston or Tampa Bay. I'm not convinced that they can do that.
- CupOnBroadSt.

Boston I think the leafs have added players that make them better....but Tampa to me is still the best team in the east....out west...Vegas or Colorado.

At some point, they'll have to beat Boston or Tampa Bay. I'm not convinced that they can do that.
- CupOnBroadSt.

Boston I think the leafs have added players that make them better....but Tampa to me is still the best team in the east....out west...Vegas or Colorado.

Hands down the best article I have read about the Flyers in a very long time, really nice work Mike! Mike is spot on start to finish!

https://www.inquirer.com/...n-vigneault-20210412.html
- jd250

There are a number of things that he gets wrong. I would also take Fletcher's answer about coaching changes with a grain of salt. Therrien should be as good as gone when the season ends.

Hands down the best article I have read about the Flyers in a very long time, really nice work Mike! Mike is spot on start to finish!

https://www.inquirer.com/...n-vigneault-20210412.html
- jd250

There are a number of things that he gets wrong. I would also take Fletcher's answer about coaching changes with a grain of salt. Therrien should be as good as gone when the season ends.

When Homer signed Giroux to the extension, he had just come off a Hart Trophy finalist season and the team was not in (partial) rebuild mode yet. The seven-game loss to the Rangers in the first round on 2014, Timonen's durability finally declining, Pronger two years gone at that point, and a barren farm system prompted a change in course.

With Voracek and Hextall, Ron originally called it a three-year partial rebuild, which became four. By year five (Voracek still age 28), he signed JVR figuring the team was ready to go further, if not quite to the level where they could come out of the east. That year turned disastrous. Last season, Fletcher added Hayes long-term, Niskanen on a two-year plan and Braun intended as a one-year stopgap. The team improved significantly during the regular season, got within a win of the Eastern Conference Final; essentially where Hextall thought they could get a year prior.

We know what's happened this year. But Hextall thought, both publicly and privately, the Flyers would be Cup contenders by 2019-20 or 2020-21. Fletcher had a pretty similar read, and this season has largely been another 2018-19. So there were miscalculations made.... hard to dispute that.
- bmeltzer

But why JVR? Of all the players that Hextall could have signed or traded for, why did he think JVR was the player to put them over the top when Toronto didn't even try to resign him? Here is a link to an article at the time about JVR and Toronto: https://editorinleaf.com/...ple-leafs-van-riemsdyk-4/.

And the on top of that Hextall has the future top pairing defense for the Flyers for years to come right in his grasp, and instead he draft's an injured center? This prompted Fletcher to sign Hayes, further killing the team's flexibility by tying up cap space. One mistake compounded by another, compounded by another! This is really going to be hard for Fletcher to undo.

I know that GMs pretty much always back coaching staffs publicly. But, if Fletcher can’t look at our special teams and not see that new assistants are needed, then he’s just incompetent.
- BiggE

Along that line, I was thinking that AV couldn’t be too happy with his assistants’ performances.

But why JVR? Of all the players that Hextall could have signed or traded for, why did he think JVR was the player to put them over the top when Toronto didn't even try to resign him? Here is a link to an article at the time about JVR and Toronto: https://editorinleaf.com/...ple-leafs-van-riemsdyk-4/.

And the on top of that Hextall has the future top pairing defense for the Flyers for years to come right in his grasp, and instead he draft's an injured center? This prompted Fletcher to sign Hayes, further killing the team's flexibility by tying up cap space. One mistake compounded by another, compounded by another! This is really going to be hard for Fletcher to undo.
- jd250

Eh, you know that is not true. We have gone over that. It was a tie between 3 players, 2 of whom happened to play D. Hextall broke the tie in favor of the player most outside ranked higher. It was not maverick behavior. It was not like Howie Roseman selecting Reagor over Jefferson. It was the conventional pick.

I don't see the GM speak actually here at all. Fletcher is not changing the coaching, and its AV's call on whether he is happy with his assistants or not. Too many times we have seen the GM change the assistants, and it often if not always leads to a head coach change mid season. Its a refreshing change to have a GM that is finally standing up and saying NO! Its not the coaching! Its the players, they are accountable and they will pay the price. I am all for blowing this team up as much as possible. The culture needs to change, and it starts with the leaders on the team taking up the most cap space.
- jd250

If Fletcher thinks it's all on the players and not at all on the coaches, he's wrong. I doubt that he actually thinks that though. Right now, supporting the coaches is the right thing to do. Let the players know they are competing for spots. Some of them anyway. Criticizing the coaches now would send the wrong message. it is GM speak. You have to read between the lines. The articles that you claimed was great, really wasn't that good.

The PK was a team strength a year ago after years of being lousy. Back to being lousy this season. Actually and, at long last, this past week, the PK has looked like it did most of last season (where the hell was it all season?): not just avoiding getting scored on but making entries tough, shutting down the lanes and getting some shorthanded counters of their own.

Power play, well, remains prone to going AWOL but the overall percentage isn't disastrous this season. Underachieving but not disastrous.
- bmeltzer

I think the PP is more on the players than the coaching, but if I had to criticize AV it would be that I really don't get rolling Patrick out there PP after PP, or putting someone like Jake at the point. Hayes, Jake, Patrick and now G are pass first players , so who is actually shooting on the PP other than Ghost from the point?

Look who is back posting. Sad.
- login

Look who’s head I’m living in rent free. Comical

If Fletcher thinks it's all on the players and not at all on the coaches, he's wrong. I doubt that he actually thinks that though. Right now, supporting the coaches is the right thing to do. Let the players know they are competing for spots. Some of them anyway. Criticizing the coaches now would send the wrong message. it is GM speak. You have to read between the lines. The articles that you claimed was great, really wasn't that good.
- MJL

That's your opinion, I happened to like the article because I agreed with it pretty much throughout, especially the premise that its time to hold the players accountable versus taking the easy way out and firing coaches.

I can be on board with you regarding G, but not with Jake, not then, and certainly not now! Hextall set this franchise back with three big blunders IMO, 1. Signing Jake V to that contract, 2. Signing JVR to his current contract, and 3. Picking Patrick over Makar.

Hextall tried to have one toe in the pool and the other in the ocean, and you just can't do that. Hextall wanted to build a competitive team for years to come via drafting and developing, and you said it yourself that the teams under Hextall were bubble teams. So why waste cap space on a player like Jake who was going to be past his prime by the time Hextall's "plan" came to fruition and then sign JVR when again, the team was not ready?
- jd250

This is completely revisionist history and hindsight. You act like Hextall should've known how Voracek was going to turn out in the future. I personally believe that Hextall signed JVR to appease upper management.

Are you yet another closeted Brit in this forum? No American says argie-bargie.
- PT21

It's because American English has evolved into this guttural idiomatic staccato of shrieking long E's, nasally I's and gaping A's. British English is way more interesting and nuanced.

Eh, you know that is not true. We have gone over that. It was a tie between 3 players, 2 of whom happened to play D. Hextall broke the tie in favor of the player most outside ranked higher. It was not maverick behavior. It was not like Howie Roseman selecting Reagor over Jefferson. It was the conventional pick.
- PT21

No I don't know that is not true. I can go back and read what Bill wrote, but what I recall is the scouts were split between Makar and Hiskanen, but the overall feeling was Hextall should draft a D over Patrick. Since there wasn't true consensus Hextall played it safe and drafted the most hyped player, fearing that if it didn't work out he would be hammered. Well, his safe pick didn't work out and now he is being hammered anyway.

First of all who actually still reads that clown?

Second of all did he actually say they should not have fired those coaches? Cause I’m pretty sure I remember (when I did read that clown) Sielski endorsing firing many of those coaches.

Thank god for Bill cause good hockey writers are few and far between these days.

Lastly, I love when writers don’t understand when they are lied to. It ‘s like their first day in the job..
- Joe Nardone

Sielsky is a clown. Beyond that, who actually reads any of that bird cage liner anymore?

And, absolutely! Thank God for Bill. He's simply the best we have, not even close.

1. If by "plan" is solid you mean it NEVER works, sure, plan is solid.



- PT21

There you go again, not understanding the word never. The plan and approach that Hextall used worked quite well in LA.

4. I wonder if they realize what is happening long term. In Philadelphia, Flyers are a very distant 4th in fan support. Most of the fans are from out of town, white, and getting older. The franchise is carving out a name for itself as a bland, long term loser. Fans often tune out during a rebuild, but they come back in droves when the corner is turned. Never turning the corner is a slow bleed that will eventually leave the club as a fringe presence in the area and it is well on its way there.
- PT21

The Flyers have always been behind the Eagles and Phillies in fan support.

This is completely revisionist history and hindsight. You act like Hextall should've known how Voracek was going to turn out in the future. I personally believe that Hextall signed JVR to appease upper management.
- MJL

No, you miss my point. Its not that Jake was not a good player at the time, its the timing of the contract and the term of it that I am second guessing. At the time Hextall knew this team was not ready to compete. Bill said it himself that Hextall thought by 2019-2020 they would be contenders, so why sign Jake at that moment? Why not trade him for more assets that would be ready when the rest of the team was ready? Regarding JVR, I agree with you, there is not other plausible explanation.

It's because American English has evolved into this guttural idiomatic staccato of shrieking long E's, nasally I's and gaping A's. British English is way more interesting and nuanced.
- countreeman28

Except if it’s
Geordie.