Watch the media in Canada. It's the Leafs cup to lose even though they haven't won a single playoff series since 2004.. and went an entire CBA without making the playoffs..let that sink in haha

With Col, I wonder if their tending holds up. If Dubnyk can help Grubauer they might be able to do it. I felt their goaltending was weak last playoff.
- Hextall271

Colorado seems to be a favorite every year and never gets it done, almost like an old capitals

This last offseason could not have gone any worse TBH. The second Nisky retired, and when it became clear we wouldn't replace him, I felt we'd regress unless a lot of our young players could step up.
- Hextall271

They didnt even have to step so to speak. Just continue to play well and not regress.

So I was wondering if having laughton signed for 5 years raises his trade value around the league...?

Chuck is going to find a top paid Dman eventually and he will have to let go of quality parts and laughton may be one of those pieces

Just my thoughts. Does anybody else feel like laughtonsl's trade value only went up with him signed for term?
- Bob Habib

It's very possible, and I had thought of this. Big issue that I saw was, had we sent him for picks, you're looking at a 2nd or 3rd rounder from presumably a good team (Ie 60 to 90 overall range) in a draft that isn't strong. Might as well keep him, and he's a signed top 9 guy on a friendly deal and you can send that asset out if need be.

Would not shock me at all if he get flipped.

Do you think Nick Aube-Kubel has played himself into jeopardy at all with some of his penalties? That could be another avenue to get Allison into the lineup IMHO.
- wbon22

I think at some point NAK will be traded

Colorado seems to be a favorite every year and never gets it done, almost like an old capitals
- ClaudeFather

Goaltending is a MAJOR issue with them.

Watch the media in Canada. It's the Leafs cup to lose even though they haven't won a single playoff series since 2004.. and went an entire CBA without making the playoffs..let that sink in haha

With Col, I wonder if their tending holds up. If Dubnyk can help Grubauer they might be able to do it. I felt their goaltending was weak last playoff.
- Hextall271

I don't view the Leafs as a legit contender. Like the Flyers I'll believe it when I see it.

The Colorado goaltending would be the concern.

They didnt even have to step so to speak. Just continue to play well and not regress.
- login

They were also banking too much on OL and NOPA being able to contribute meaningfully and that didn't happen at all. When they began the season and were playing like defensive idiots as a team, I think it eventually sapped confidence which is so key for young players. It has snowballed, and guys like Hart need a complete reset this offseason. Doesn't seem as though any of the remaining vets were able to help them work through the struggles.

I disagree with Mike on some key points, agree on others. Specifically, I agree that it was not a coaching issue first and foremost over a series of tenures. I vehemently disagree that Paul Holmgren made a mistake signing Claude Giroux to his current contract.

First of all, Giroux was just coming off a Hart Trophy finalist season at the time the deal was signed. He was 25 years old at the time. To get cost-certainty on him for eight seasons, and keep it under $9 million for the duration of his prime, was an outstanding signing.

Secondly, he's delivered plenty of performance over the life of the current deal. That included his career-best 102 point season in 2017-18 where it was a travesty that he was only 4th in the Hart Trophy race and almost singlehandedly carried the Flyers down the stretch drive with a spectacular run.

Lastly, Mike forgets that Hexy spent four years focused heavily on a farm-system rebuild. The GM was content to keep just enough in place to be a bubble team at the NHL level so long as it didn't cost the team picks or prospects to try to see if they could get good enough to be more than a team that lost in 6 games (twice) in the first round.

That was not Giroux's fault, at all.

Same thing with Hextall's extension for Voracek, although the deal's term at $8.5 million is now a problematic one. Voracek had just finished in the top 4 in the Art Ross Trophy race, and was in his prime.

With contract negotiations, timing is everything.

Mike, too often, skimps on context in such articles.
- bmeltzer

100%.
Context is everything. You can’t rewrite history. Giroux’ s deal was a good signing and although you can see a dip in his over all game he’s still a very good player. The Vorecek signing hasn’t aged quite as well, but again at the time ? The Flyers had to pay him or someone else would have.
Your comments on Hextall were spot on.

I don't view the Leafs as a legit contender. Like the Flyers I'll believe it when I see it.

The Colorado goaltending would be the concern.
- PLindbergh31

The Leafs are better then you think....

I think a full tear down would have left us in a better spot, blame hextall or Comcast it doesn’t matter , it was a horrible way to go about running an organization
- ClaudeFather

As a fan, it was also horrible to watch.

I don't view the Leafs as a legit contender. Like the Flyers I'll believe it when I see it.

The Colorado goaltending would be the concern.
- PLindbergh31

It's comical up here. As I was saying, the media has adopted the narrative that the fact that this group has never won a playoff round is inconsequential, and that they can contend for the cup. With their div, I expect they will win 2 rounds, but as soon as they come out of that..woof. you'd need Tampa Col, Wash, Pitt NYI to be upset along the way.

The Leafs are better then you think....
- landros 2

I think the competition in that Division is pretty poopty.

The Leafs are better then you think....
- landros 2

hutton was nice pickup on D

Pretty sure this is one of the main reasons Doug Pederson was fired. He wanted to keep his assistants and Lurie/Roseman said no

- aantny88

And he was not a good head football oach

NAK is showing to be nothing more than a dime a dozen 4th line winger. You can find several of them in every organization. People overreacted to his small sample size last year. Never seen that story play out before.
- login

Agreed, nothing special about NAK. Plays hard, but has little skill as demonstrated in the game on Sunday when he had as wide open of a net as you will ever have and he shot the puck over the net. And the penalties are just too much. He would be addition by subtraction.

The Leafs are better then you think....
- landros 2

At some point, they'll have to beat Boston or Tampa Bay. I'm not convinced that they can do that.

So what was the solution? Trade them both for a full rebuild (expecting an empty building/fan disinterest) or go aggressively into UFA to help the core, and take an approach that was proven to not work with the cap?

It may not have panned out yet, but the plan is solid. Build through the draft and hope for a lengthy window to win. Trade assets and go UFA route when you think you are close. The timing was always going to be off with Jake and Gs prime not synching with the plan, but if you think fans/COMCAST wouldn't have gone crazy if G and Jake had been shipped out for picks during this period, you'd be lying to yourself.

The full tear down wouldn't have guaranteed a generational talent/more success. I think it was the correct approach in view of all factors.
- Hextall271

The problem with that is that we'd just as likely be in the position of an Edmonton or a Buffalo as we would be a Wash, Chi, LA or Pitt. If we'd have conducted a full teardown and not hit for the most part in the drafts, we could be in hockey hell like Buffalo or Edm.

Not sure if it would be a factor in Philly, but say we ended up like Buf or Edm in a decade long struggle to ice even a playoff team, would the team sink into irrelevance on the Philly sports landscape? Maybe it already has?Edm is the only show in town, and Buf only has the Bills. I am sure that ownership considered this as at the end of the day, it's a business.
- Hextall271

1. If by "plan" is solid you mean it NEVER works, sure, plan is solid.

2. Why do you seek guarantees? Are there any guarantees in life? Is there a guarantee that staying competitive and building gets you the cup?

3. Honestly, I don't think so. Buffalo, Arizona, Edmonton, Columbus are 4 clubs which are outliers in various ways. I don't think we would be in that category.

4. I wonder if they realize what is happening long term. In Philadelphia, Flyers are a very distant 4th in fan support. Most of the fans are from out of town, white, and getting older. The franchise is carving out a name for itself as a bland, long term loser. Fans often tune out during a rebuild, but they come back in droves when the corner is turned. Never turning the corner is a slow bleed that will eventually leave the club as a fringe presence in the area and it is well on its way there.

At some point, they'll have to beat Boston or Tampa Bay. I'm not convinced that they can do that.
- CupOnBroadSt.

They would steam roll Boston

I think the competition in that Division is pretty poopty.
- PLindbergh31

It is a very weak division, the leafs are a solid team though. I don’t think they’ll beat Tampa but they are solid.

I disagree with Mike on some key points, agree on others. Specifically, I agree that it was not a coaching issue first and foremost over a series of tenures. I vehemently disagree that Paul Holmgren made a mistake signing Claude Giroux to his current contract.

First of all, Giroux was just coming off a Hart Trophy finalist season at the time the deal was signed. He was 25 years old at the time. To get cost-certainty on him for eight seasons, and keep it under $9 million for the duration of his prime, was an outstanding signing.

Secondly, he's delivered plenty of performance over the life of the current deal. That included his career-best 102 point season in 2017-18 where it was a travesty that he was only 4th in the Hart Trophy race and almost singlehandedly carried the Flyers down the stretch drive with a spectacular run.

Lastly, Mike forgets that Hexy spent four years focused heavily on a farm-system rebuild. The GM was content to keep just enough in place to be a bubble team at the NHL level so long as it didn't cost the team picks or prospects to try to see if they could get good enough to be more than a team that lost in 6 games (twice) in the first round.

That was not Giroux's fault, at all.

Same thing with Hextall's extension for Voracek, although the deal's term at $8.5 million is now a problematic one. Voracek had just finished in the top 4 in the Art Ross Trophy race, and was in his prime.

With contract negotiations, timing is everything.

Mike, too often, skimps on context in such articles.
- bmeltzer

Bill,

I will respectfully take issue with your reasoning. The issue is not about the individual performances of Giroux and Voracek and whether they deserved the contracts. Both arguably did, especially Roo.

But you give out those contracts when you truly believe such contracts are going to be the backbone of at least 1 cup run during the life of the contract. You cannot look at them in isolation. If you give them out, you have to do the rest of what it takes to produce a contending club. And if you are unwilling or unable to do that, you have to take a look ahead, and not give those contracts out.

Flyers had a muddled organizational vision. They handed out long contracts and then went into a disguised rebuild. Each force acted against the other. The good players prevented high picks. The rebuild prevented the good players from realizing their potential.

Agreed, nothing special about NAK. Plays hard, but has little skill as demonstrated in the game on Sunday when he had as wide open of a net as you will ever have and he shot the puck over the net. And the penalties are just too much. He would be addition by subtraction.
- jd250

He is not devoid of skill but not strong on the hockey sense or focus departments. Can be effective on the forecheck and the physical game. However, he cannot be relied on as a penalty killer, so he's not on the PK. Doesn't score enough at the NHL level to regularly move higher in the lineup. Tenacious when he sets his mind to it, gets a little disengaged at other times. Not consistent in the details-oriented stuff he needs to execute game-in and game-out. Prone to bad penalties.

The coaches stayed on him constantly last season and got some results from him after his recall. This season, the hope was that he could be allowed more slack. But it has ended up that he has to be stayed on with some frequency -- which often falls to Lappy, because he's got a good relationship with NAK -- and the returns have not been as good.

They would steam roll Boston
- ClaudeFather

I think Boston's playoff fate depends on which Taylor Hall shows up, a motivated one or the coach killing dog he has always been. Did you know that Taylor Hall has been in the league 11 years and this is now his 10th coach? It would be 11 but he got Krueger twice, once in Edmonton and then again in Buffalo. If that is not the definition of a dog and coach killer I don't know what is. However he picked the Bruins over all other teams and stated yesterday he has been wanting to play for the Bruins since his draft year, and his agent is the same agent as Bergeron's, so a motivated Hall could pay big dividends for the Bruins in terms of secondary scoring.

Bill,

I will respectfully take issue with your reasoning. The issue is not about the individual performances of Giroux and Voracek and whether they deserved the contracts. Both arguably did, especially Roo.

But you give out those contracts when you truly believe such contracts are going to be the backbone of at least 1 cup run during the life of the contract. You cannot look at them in isolation. If you give them out, you have to do the rest of what it takes to produce a contending club. And if you are unwilling or unable to do that, you have to take a look ahead, and not give those contracts out.

Flyers had a muddled organizational vision. They handed out long contracts and then went into a disguised rebuild. Each force acted against the other. The good players prevented high picks. The rebuild prevented the good players from realizing their potential.
- PT21

100% agree, well said!

I think Boston's playoff fate depends on which Taylor Hall shows up, a motivated one or the coach killing dog he has always been. Did you know that Taylor Hall has been in the league 11 years and this is now his 10th coach? It would be 11 but he got Krueger twice, once in Edmonton and then again in Buffalo. If that is not the definition of a dog and coach killer I don't know what is. However he picked the Bruins over all other teams and stated yesterday he has been wanting to play for the Bruins since his draft year, and his agent is the same agent as Bergeron's, so a motivated Hall could pay big dividends for the Bruins in terms of secondary scoring.
- jd250

I hear various bits and pieces that he is simply not the same player anymore, as he was in EDM and early years in NJ. In ability, not attitude.

I know that GMs pretty much always back coaching staffs publicly. But, if Fletcher can’t look at our special teams and not see that new assistants are needed, then he’s just incompetent.