That is/was the problem. He half assed it. Wasted both their primes.
- login

Yea it should have been all tore down, the hextall method was beyond asinine, now we are still in this weird waiting period for prospects with the same aging veterans

I disagree with Mike on some key points, agree on others. Specifically, I agree that it was not a coaching issue first and foremost over a series of tenures. I vehemently disagree that Paul Holmgren made a mistake signing Claude Giroux to his current contract.

First of all, Giroux was just coming off a Hart Trophy finalist season at the time the deal was signed. He was 25 years old at the time. To get cost-certainty on him for eight seasons, and keep it under $9 million for the duration of his prime, was an outstanding signing.

Secondly, he's delivered plenty of performance over the life of the current deal. That included his career-best 102 point season in 2017-18 where it was a travesty that he was only 4th in the Hart Trophy race and almost singlehandedly carried the Flyers down the stretch drive with a spectacular run.

Lastly, Mike forgets that Hexy spent four years focused heavily on a farm-system rebuild. The GM was content to keep just enough in place to be a bubble team at the NHL level so long as it didn't cost the team picks or prospects to try to see if they could get good enough to be more than a team that lost in 6 games (twice) in the first round.

That was not Giroux's fault, at all.

Same thing with Hextall's extension for Voracek, although the deal's term at $8.5 million is now a problematic one. Voracek had just finished in the top 4 in the Art Ross Trophy race, and was in his prime.

With contract negotiations, timing is everything.

Mike, too often, skimps on context in such articles.
- bmeltzer

Giroux has been a top-3 captain in Flyers history and even the staunchest of whinging, pouty haters will miss him someday. It's a shame this franchise wasted his awesome contributions.

That is/was the problem. He half assed it. Wasted both their primes.
- login

So what was the solution? Trade them both for a full rebuild (expecting an empty building/fan disinterest) or go aggressively into UFA to help the core, and take an approach that was proven to not work with the cap?

It may not have panned out yet, but the plan is solid. Build through the draft and hope for a lengthy window to win. Trade assets and go UFA route when you think you are close. The timing was always going to be off with Jake and Gs prime not synching with the plan, but if you think fans/COMCAST wouldn't have gone crazy if G and Jake had been shipped out for picks during this period, you'd be lying to yourself.

The full tear down wouldn't have guaranteed a generational talent/more success. I think it was the correct approach in view of all factors.

Then AV would have to go. Who is running the show? We complain about the players running things, yet you seem to be making an excuse that it is ok for the coach to run things instead of the GM?
- corduroy

Not making any excuses for the coaching staff. They have been horrible.

What I am saying is if the GM wants to fire the assistants and keep AV; does AV then say well then fire me as well, those are my guys. If he said that then yes he needs to go.

So what was the solution? Trade them both for a full rebuild (expecting an empty building/fan disinterest) or go aggressively into UFA to help the core, and take an approach that was proven to not work with the cap?

It may not have panned out yet, but the plan is solid. Build through the draft and hope for a lengthy window to win. Trade assets and go UFA route when you think you are close. The timing was always going to be off with Jake and Gs prime not synching with the plan, but if you think fans/COMCAST wouldn't have gone crazy if G and Jake had been shipped out for picks during this period, you'd be lying to yourself.

The full tear down wouldn't have guaranteed a generational talent/more success. I think it was the correct approach in view of all factors.
- Hextall271

I think a full tear down would have left us in a better spot, blame hextall or Comcast it doesn’t matter , it was a horrible way to go about running an organization

Do you think Nick Aube-Kubel has played himself into jeopardy at all with some of his penalties? That could be another avenue to get Allison into the lineup IMHO.
- wbon22

He absolutely has. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a healthy scratch tonight.

Does anyone have a favorite for the cup now?
- Peter Richards

I like what Washington did yesterday by getting Manta! There are going to be some great playoff series coming up, especially in the East.

So what was the solution? Trade them both for a full rebuild (expecting an empty building/fan disinterest) or go aggressively into UFA to help the core, and take an approach that was proven to not work with the cap?

It may not have panned out yet, but the plan is solid. Build through the draft and hope for a lengthy window to win. Trade assets and go UFA route when you think you are close. The timing was always going to be off with Jake and Gs prime not synching with the plan, but if you think fans/COMCAST wouldn't have gone crazy if G and Jake had been shipped out for picks during this period, you'd be lying to yourself.

The full tear down wouldn't have guaranteed a generational talent/more success. I think it was the correct approach in view of all factors.
- Hextall271

The solution was not do what he did; tried to play the middle ground which rarely works.

Yes you either trade both or build around them. I dont buy a full rebuild would have an empty arena or lose fan interest. Not at all.

He plan is what pretty much every team does; build through the draft and develop. People act like this was some new concept Saint Ronald created.

We disagree 100% that his approach was correct. How many more years does Ronald get before we can evaluate his drafts? So far just solid is all.

I don't see the GM speak actually here at all. Fletcher is not changing the coaching, and its AV's call on whether he is happy with his assistants or not. Too many times we have seen the GM change the assistants, and it often if not always leads to a head coach change mid season. Its a refreshing change to have a GM that is finally standing up and saying NO! Its not the coaching! Its the players, they are accountable and they will pay the price. I am all for blowing this team up as much as possible. The culture needs to change, and it starts with the leaders on the team taking up the most cap space.
- jd250

Pretty sure this is one of the main reasons Doug Pederson was fired. He wanted to keep his assistants and Lurie/Roseman said no

I disagree with Mike on some key points, agree on others. Specifically, I agree that it was not a coaching issue first and foremost over a series of tenures. I vehemently disagree that Paul Holmgren made a mistake signing Claude Giroux to his current contract.

First of all, Giroux was just coming off a Hart Trophy finalist season at the time the deal was signed. He was 25 years old at the time. To get cost-certainty on him for eight seasons, and keep it under $9 million for the duration of his prime, was an outstanding signing.

Secondly, he's delivered plenty of performance over the life of the current deal. That included his career-best 102 point season in 2017-18 where it was a travesty that he was only 4th in the Hart Trophy race and almost singlehandedly carried the Flyers down the stretch drive with a spectacular run.

Lastly, Mike forgets that Hexy spent four years focused heavily on a farm-system rebuild. The GM was content to keep just enough in place to be a bubble team at the NHL level so long as it didn't cost the team picks or prospects to try to see if they could get good enough to be more than a team that lost in 6 games (twice) in the first round.

That was not Giroux's fault, at all.

Same thing with Hextall's extension for Voracek, although the deal's term at $8.5 million is now a problematic one. Voracek had just finished in the top 4 in the Art Ross Trophy race, and was in his prime.

With contract negotiations, timing is everything.

Mike, too often, skimps on context in such articles.
- bmeltzer

I can be on board with you regarding G, but not with Jake, not then, and certainly not now! Hextall set this franchise back with three big blunders IMO, 1. Signing Jake V to that contract, 2. Signing JVR to his current contract, and 3. Picking Patrick over Makar.

Hextall tried to have one toe in the pool and the other in the ocean, and you just can't do that. Hextall wanted to build a competitive team for years to come via drafting and developing, and you said it yourself that the teams under Hextall were bubble teams. So why waste cap space on a player like Jake who was going to be past his prime by the time Hextall's "plan" came to fruition and then sign JVR when again, the team was not ready?

Do you think Nick Aube-Kubel has played himself into jeopardy at all with some of his penalties? That could be another avenue to get Allison into the lineup IMHO.
- wbon22

NAK is showing to be nothing more than a dime a dozen 4th line winger. You can find several of them in every organization. People overreacted to his small sample size last year. Never seen that story play out before.

I think a full tear down would have left us in a better spot, blame hextall or Comcast it doesn’t matter , it was a horrible way to go about running an organization
- ClaudeFather

The problem with that is that we'd just as likely be in the position of an Edmonton or a Buffalo as we would be a Wash, Chi, LA or Pitt. If we'd have conducted a full teardown and not hit for the most part in the drafts, we could be in hockey hell like Buffalo or Edm.

Not sure if it would be a factor in Philly, but say we ended up like Buf or Edm in a decade long struggle to ice even a playoff team, would the team sink into irrelevance on the Philly sports landscape? Maybe it already has?Edm is the only show in town, and Buf only has the Bills. I am sure that ownership considered this as at the end of the day, it's a business.

The Erik Gustafsson signing before the season did not work out at all, and it created a redundancy in the defense corps;

as others have pointed out here, this was obvious at the time of the signing. Another Ghost basically.

The problem with that is that we'd just as likely be in the position of an Edmonton or a Buffalo as we would be a Wash, Chi, LA or Pitt. If we'd have conducted a full teardown and not hit for the most part in the drafts, we could be in hockey hell like Buffalo or Edm.

Not sure if it would be a factor in Philly, but say we ended up like Buf or Edm in a decade long struggle to ice even a playoff team, would the team sink into irrelevance on the Philly sports landscape? Maybe it already has?Edm is the only show in town, and Buf only has the Bills. I am sure that ownership considered this as at the end of the day, it's a business.
- Hextall271

yeah this is an oasis.

They are already irrelevant. Have been for a decade.

I like what Washington did yesterday by getting Manta! There are going to be some great playoff series coming up, especially in the East.
- jd250

I think Colorado and Tampa are the teams to beat, but that was a great hockey trade by Wash, and I think they won it. Those two players have comparable stats, but one was playing for Det and the other for Wash with a solid cast.

yeah this is an oasis.

They are already irrelevant. Have been for a decade.
- login

I don't think they were irrelevant last year. I felt that we were taking an important step forward last year, but always remembered it's not a linear climb to the top. Young players regress sometimes, especially when you remove key members of the vet supporting cast when they are not ready. That is on Fletch IMO for not addressing the gaps.

I've posted before my thoughts on what I would do to help us get back on track, but Fletch has his work cut out for him.

Bill, what do you see them doing in the offseason. Why are they afraid of a rebuild and a youth movement. I love G and Voracek, but i think there needs to be moves. Ghost has played well, well not defensively, but did anyone really expect him to, so why not go out and get a strong defender to pair him up with? I like Morin, I think he has gotten a raw deal. Myers does nothing for me. I guess I'd just love to see something different being done.

The Erik Gustafsson signing before the season did not work out at all, and it created a redundancy in the defense corps;

as others have pointed out here, this was obvious at the time of the signing. Another Ghost basically.
- backfire

The Ghost of AMac.

Does anyone have a favorite for the cup now?
- Peter Richards

TB will be getting Kucherov back for the playoffs, and Vasilevsky is the best goalie in the league. The Av's have to be the heavy favorite in the West. It looks like a TB/Col SCF to me, but lots can happen in the playoffs with injuries etc.

First of all who actually still reads that clown?

Second of all did he actually say they should not have fired those coaches? Cause I’m pretty sure I remember (when I did read that clown) Sielski endorsing firing many of those coaches.

Thank god for Bill cause good hockey writers are few and far between these days.

Lastly, I love when writers don’t understand when they are lied to. It ‘s like their first day in the job..

The Erik Gustafsson signing before the season did not work out at all, and it created a redundancy in the defense corps;

as others have pointed out here, this was obvious at the time of the signing. Another Ghost basically.
- backfire

This last offseason could not have gone any worse TBH. The second Nisky retired, and when it became clear we wouldn't replace him, I felt we'd regress unless a lot of our young players could step up.

The Ghost of AMac.
- Glak18

Amac in his prime would have been perfect for this team this yr

TB will be getting Kucherov back for the playoffs, and Vasilevsky is the best goalie in the league. The Av's have to be the heavy favorite in the West. It looks like a TB/Col SCF to me, but lots can happen in the playoffs with injuries etc.
- PLindbergh31

Watch the media in Canada. It's the Leafs cup to lose even though they haven't won a single playoff series since 2004.. and went an entire CBA without making the playoffs..let that sink in haha

With Col, I wonder if their tending holds up. If Dubnyk can help Grubauer they might be able to do it. I felt their goaltending was weak last playoff.

So I was wondering if having laughton signed for 5 years raises his trade value around the league...?

Chuck is going to find a top paid Dman eventually and he will have to let go of quality parts and laughton may be one of those pieces

Just my thoughts. Does anybody else feel like laughtonsl's trade value only went up with him signed for term?

The Erik Gustafsson signing before the season did not work out at all, and it created a redundancy in the defense corps;

as others have pointed out here, this was obvious at the time of the signing. Another Ghost basically.
- backfire

Never made sense for a second. The fact Fletcher couldn't see that is mind boggling.

Fletcher being in charge of this "rebuild" is terrifying.