Speaking of dumb arguments, stating that Myers with his level of experience shouldn't be making mistakes with regularity. Myers has played 102 NHL games I believe. He is not a highly experienced player. He is still in his infancy of his NHL career.
- MJL

I warned you already, don't go down with the SS Myers, its not worth it!

Ummm...the team you root for the Philadelphia Flyers, stumbled into the playoffs winning a shootout in the last game of the season to qualify to the playoffs in2010. They then got hot and made it to the Cup finals.
- MJL

Devils were a .500 team that upset a Scottie Bowman led team of HOFs in the Finals in '95.

Kings got shutout like 10x in the regular season the year they went from 8th seed to champs.

Blues weren't anything special when they won. Weren't they the worst team in the league the year before?

Also, only 2 President's Trophy teams have won in the salary cap era.

Toronto media really funny. They’re calling the leafs contenders and that that can easily as a group, go from not ever having won a playoff series to winning it all. Looking at who their opponent will be in the semi finals and discussing how to beat Tampa and colorado haha. I’ll laugh if they lose to say Winnipeg in round 2.
- Hextall271

Toronto has a really good team...Mathews is a superstar, and there’s other extremely talented guys to go along with him...they have speed, experience, toughness. They added Rittich today to help with the goaltending which might be an issue. But this team is stacked and definitely a contender....Winnipeg is a great team as well. That would be one hell of a series....it Canada...of course they are going to pump the leafs tires....this year they have a point.

Here is a stat for you. Cale Makar is 22 years old, he has 76 points in 89 games and is a plus 29. Makar is already one of the best defenseman in the league!

Now I am not expecting Myers to score points like Makar, but I am expecting someone who is 24 years old and into his 3rd NHL season, while also playing 109 games for the Phantoms (you conveniently leave out this stat), to be able to play solid defense and smartly use his size and reach. But, nope, he can't do that. He can't take coaching apparently and he certainly does not have the will to take a hit and play physical. And given his offense is just about non-existent, not sure why I would put him in the lineup honestly.
- jd250

Here is some education for you. Every young player is different. For example, Provorov came into the league at age 20 and was able to play in a top pairing role right away. Provorov was what the 7th or 8th overall pick in the draft? Makar was the 4th overall pick in the draft. These are elite players. we even see Provorov struggling at times playing on this current team. You obviously don't understand the difference between a player who is an elite talent drafted high and an undrafted free agent. You obviously don't understand that every player develops differently.

You keep mentioning age. Age is irrelevant with the exception of when looking at physical maturity. I didn't leave anything out. So let me ask you this question. When Myers was in the QMJL and playing for the Phantoms. Were there any reports that Myers was a player who can't play solidly and doesn't use his size and reach? Is that why the Flyers signed him to a contract? Were there any reports from his time with the Phantoms that he doesn't take coaching or is un-coachable? If you are aware, I'd like to read those reports. So all of a sudden after playing in the AHL and the NHL last years. This year. Myers has become un-coachable and unwilling to play solid defensively and use his size and reach. Did he catch some bug in the past off season to change him and his game. What doesn't add up here? See if you can figure it out.

If Myers still needs to be babied why aren’t you guys holding Chuck accountable for throwing him into a 2nd pairing role with no solid backup option?

It’s like there’s an excuse for everyone with some of you. Year 12 they’re gonna get it right tho.
- hereticpride

There are too many players that come into this league at 19, 20, or 21 years old that make significant impacts in this league, in goal, on defense and at forward. Myers has had ample time to learn his craft and prove himself. He may improve a bit more, but with most players by 24 or 25 years old you know what they will be. There is that occasional late bloomer and I suppose Myers could be one such player, but given his deficiencies I don't think he will be. On the other hand, Morin can be such a late bloomer and he has already shown signs of that.

Until they make the changes they need to I’m done rooting for them. I’d kind of like to be able to root for them sooner rather than later.

Never said they all suck. For years I’ve been saying this is a poor mix of players. They barely do anything well as a unit year after year. Idk why people think minor tweaks to the roster will change that. They need to add at the very least a legitimate top 4, if not top 2 d man and free up one of these winger spots and get some high end offensive talent for a change.
- hereticpride

How do you think they can best accomplish that?

I warned you already, don't go down with the SS Myers, its not worth it!
- jd250

Someone who goes down with pretty much every post they make, should not be warning people of anything.

Devils were a .500 team that upset a Scottie Bowman led team of HOFs in the Finals in '95.

Kings got shutout like 10x in the regular season the year they went from 8th seed to champs.

Blues weren't anything special when they won. Weren't they the worst team in the league the year before?

Also, only 2 President's Trophy teams have won in the salary cap era.
- Tomahawk

Like PT21 said, never!

Tomorrow night could be ugly

By not being eaten alive by the Sabres. Start with that
- PLindbergh31

Great..put aside the DB I hate the Flyers routine for a bit and actually try to make a legit point for once.

There are too many players that come into this league at 19, 20, or 21 years old that make significant impacts in this league, in goal, on defense and at forward. Myers has had ample time to learn his craft and prove himself. He may improve a bit more, but with most players by 24 or 25 years old you know what they will be. There is that occasional late bloomer and I suppose Myers could be one such player, but given his deficiencies I don't think he will be. On the other hand, Morin can be such a late bloomer and he has already shown signs of that.
- jd250

No credible analyst and not even any reasonable fan would make a statement that a defenseman, after playing a little more than 100 NHL games is done developing as a player and you know what they will be. This is just piling on to your statement that all the Flyers young players are what they are.

Here is some education for you. Every young player is different. For example, Provorov came into the league at age 20 and was able to play in a top pairing role right away. Provorov was what the 7th or 8th overall pick in the draft? Makar was the 4th overall pick in the draft. These are elite players. we even see Provorov struggling at times playing on this current team. You obviously don't understand the difference between a player who is an elite talent drafted high and an undrafted free agent. You obviously don't understand that every player develops differently.

You keep mentioning age. Age is irrelevant with the exception of when looking at physical maturity. I didn't leave anything out. So let me ask you this question. When Myers was in the QMJL and playing for the Phantoms. Were there any reports that Myers was a player who can't play solidly and doesn't use his size and reach? Is that why the Flyers signed him to a contract? Were there any reports from his time with the Phantoms that he doesn't take coaching or is un-coachable? If you are aware, I'd like to read those reports. So all of a sudden after playing in the AHL and the NHL last years. This year. Myers has become un-coachable and unwilling to play solid defensively and use his size and reach. Did he catch some bug in the past off season to change him and his game. What doesn't add up here? See if you can figure it out.
- MJL

I know where you are going with this, you are going to blame AV and his coaching staff for ruining Myers. Well, I suppose that's possible but I'm not there yet. Its one thing to play well in QMJHL, its another to play well in the AHL, but its an entirely higher level to play impact hockey in the NHL against the best players in the world. Last year with Niskanen and Provorov playing big minutes, perhaps Myers was shielded from playing against other teams top players. He was also new in the league so he was not scouted yet. This year, teams are exposing not only Myers, but the entire Flyers defense and they have responded horribly as a group, but Myers has probably responded the worst of the bunch. Maybe Myers just doesn't have that next gear? Or maybe he is best suited for where he played yesterday, as a 3rd pairing defenseman. Not sure where he will end up, but I know where he is right now, and that is a defenseman who can barely get ice time on a bad team!

Nice. We have room to sign cates now.

Jesus. Who wins the cup this year. The axis and allied powers with an arms race today. Loaded for bear.

Devils were a .500 team that upset a Scottie Bowman led team of HOFs in the Finals in '95.

Kings got shutout like 10x in the regular season the year they went from 8th seed to champs.

Blues weren't anything special when they won. Weren't they the worst team in the league the year before?

Also, only 2 President's Trophy teams have won in the salary cap era.
- Tomahawk

1. Devils were the 5th seed in conference. Close to a .500 team, sure. 52 points, 48 games. Fine, I will give you that one.

2. Remember how good their possession stats were. Indeed, that was an anomalous #8 seed. A lot of posters, including a dude called Tomahawk in 2012, were talking about their Corsi. I will give you this one too.

3. They had 94 points and just missed the playoffs. The year before, they lost in 2nd round, and the year before, they lost in Conference Finals. I will definitely not give you that one, given how the Blues were playing from mid-season onwards.


I did not say there is a 1:1 correlation between regular season record and cup. Its not a guarantee. But the correlation is strong enough to rule out the "get into playoffs and anything can happen" theory. You came up with 2 cases in 25 tries.


EDIT: by the way, I wanted to add:

LA in 2012 and NJ Devils in 1995 were very young teams on the cusp of significant strength and dominance respectively. Its not so much that they were miracles. Its just that they were on a huge upswing, and you are measuring them at the beginning of the upswing.

No credible analyst and not even any reasonable fan would make a statement that a defenseman, after playing a little more than 100 NHL games is done developing as a player and you know what they will be. This is just piling on to your statement that all the Flyers young players are what they are.
- MJL

Yes, I have never come off that statement BTW, out of the young players we have seen for the Flyers this year, most of them are what they are, 3rd pairing, bottom 3 forwards. Maybe York changes that next year? Maybe Foerster joins Farabee and becomes another top 6 forward? Maybe O'Brien joins the team a year later and we have something great? And maybe by then Carter Hart is a top 5 goalie? I hope so! But right now, it is what it is!

I know where you are going with this, you are going to blame AV and his coaching staff for ruining Myers. Well, I suppose that's possible but I'm not there yet. Its one thing to play well in QMJHL, its another to play well in the AHL, but its an entirely higher level to play impact hockey in the NHL against the best players in the world. Last year with Niskanen and Provorov playing big minutes, perhaps Myers was shielded from playing against other teams top players. He was also new in the league so he was not scouted yet. This year, teams are exposing not only Myers, but the entire Flyers defense and they have responded horribly as a group, but Myers has probably responded the worst of the bunch. Maybe Myers just doesn't have that next gear? Or maybe he is best suited for where he played yesterday, as a 3rd pairing defenseman. Not sure where he will end up, but I know where he is right now, and that is a defenseman who can barely get ice time on a bad team!
- jd250

Thank you for making my point for me. The first thing you need to do is read what you wrote here. Yes, it is completely different playing in the NHL against the best players in the world compared to the QMJL. Even compared to the AHL. Yet you want to use his experience in the AHL as a factor. Even worse, you want to say that after 109 NHL games, he is what he will be as a player and is done developing. He should be where he needs to be because Makar is doing it at 22! I just have to laugh. The entire Flyers team has been exposed defensively! From the goalie on out. Yet you think this is a good environment for a young NHL defenseman being asked to play top 4 and for a small time, top pairing. You want to know the best way to break in a defenseman like Myers? Play him on the 3rd pair with a veteran partner. Break him in gradually. Gradually give him more responsibility. Then when he is ready, elevate him. That's how a lot of NHL defenseman develop other than the elite who can jump right in. So much of what you have posted here and in other posts points to a real lack of understanding. Mentioning Makar was really poorly thought out.
As far as the coaching staff is concerned. I'll give you partial credit. They have failed to correct a lot of this teams correctable issues. That has created a very poor environment for young player growth and development.

Like PT21 said, never!
- MJL

Sid/Geno and McJesus lost to 12th seeds last season. OV lost to the 7th seeded Isles. Dallas upset both COL and VGK. It's never random. Superstars always win.

1. Devils were the 5th seed in conference. Close to a .500 team, sure. 52 points, 48 games. Fine, I will give you that one.

2. Remember how good their possession stats were. Indeed, that was an anomalous #8 seed. A lot of posters, including a dude called Tomahawk in 2012, were talking about their Corsi. I will give you this one too.

3. They had 94 points and just missed the playoffs. The year before, they lost in 2nd round, and the year before, they lost in Conference Finals. I will definitely not give you that one, given how the Blues were playing from mid-season onwards.


I did not say there is a 1:1 correlation between regular season record and cup. Its not a guarantee. But the correlation is strong enough to rule out the "get into playoffs and anything can happen" theory. You came up with 2 cases in 25 tries.
- PT21

Past seasons are not relative to your point that teams never get hot and ride it in the playoffs. I think what the issue is here again is your lack of understanding what the word never means. Just like you said you never insult posters. You've been proven wrong here.

Actually, you were given 4 cases just off the top of our heads. You said never! So even if it's only two, well you're still wrong.

Sid/Geno and McJesus lost to 12th seeds last season. OV lost to the 7th seeded Isles. Dallas upset both COL and VGK. It's never random. Superstars always win.
- Tomahawk

The number of teams that aren't successful with a superstar player dwarfs the number of teams that are but that is not considered. What's wrong with you?

Yes, I have never come off that statement BTW, out of the young players we have seen for the Flyers this year, most of them are what they are, 3rd pairing, bottom 3 forwards. Maybe York changes that next year? Maybe Foerster joins Farabee and becomes another top 6 forward? Maybe O'Brien joins the team a year later and we have something great? And maybe by then Carter Hart is a top 5 goalie? I hope so! But right now, it is what it is!
- jd250

Yes, I know you have never come off of that. You're at the bottom of the sea on a sunken boat with that one. Unsalvageable.

I did not say there is a 1:1 correlation between regular season record and cup. Its not a guarantee. But the correlation is strong enough to rule out the "get into playoffs and anything can happen" theory. You came up with 2 cases in 25 tries.
- PT21

You really need somebody to list all the high seeded regular season darlings that ultimately didn't win the Cup? There's like half a dozen every year.

Sid/Geno and McJesus lost to 12th seeds last season. OV lost to the 7th seeded Isles. Dallas upset both COL and VGK. It's never random. Superstars always win.
- Tomahawk

Thats not even the Montreal series of getting hot that still kills me.

Thank you for making my point for me. The first thing you need to do is read what you wrote here. Yes, it is completely different playing in the NHL against the best players in the world compared to the QMJL. Even compared to the AHL. Yet you want to use his experience in the AHL as a factor. Even worse, you want to say that after 109 NHL games, he is what he will be as a player and is done developing. He should be where he needs to be because Makar is doing it at 22! I just have to laugh. The entire Flyers team has been exposed defensively! From the goalie on out. Yet you think this is a good environment for a young NHL defenseman being asked to play top 4 and for a small time, top pairing. You want to know the best way to break in a defenseman like Myers? Play him on the 3rd pair with a veteran partner. Break him in gradually. Gradually give him more responsibility. Then when he is ready, elevate him. That's how a lot of NHL defenseman develop other than the elite who can jump right in. So much of what you have posted here and in other posts points to a real lack of understanding. Mentioning Makar was really poorly thought out.
As far as the coaching staff is concerned. I'll give you partial credit. They have failed to correct a lot of this teams correctable issues. That has created a very poor environment for young player growth and development.
- MJL

But this is where I lose you. This is not high school hockey! These are professional hockey players. They are supposed to know how to play defense, use their size and reach, know angles to the puck, skate well, hit, cover, and play multiple defensive systems. These are correctable mistakes yes, but its not the coaches that need to correct them, its the professional players that need to put the time in and correct their own mistakes. But regarding Myers I go back to the point that is backed up by AV, its not the number of mistakes, its the types of mistakes that is the most concerning.

So forget Makar for a moment, and compare Morin to Myers. Morin has been hurt and has missed multiple seasons. Myers has played many more NHL games than Morin. Morin is only 1 year older than Myers. You tell me, which player this year has looked better? Which player has made a more significant impact to the team? Now if your honest you know the answer is Morin, so now tell me, why is that?

I know where you are going with this, you are going to blame AV and his coaching staff for ruining Myers. Well, I suppose that's possible but I'm not there yet. Its one thing to play well in QMJHL, its another to play well in the AHL, but its an entirely higher level to play impact hockey in the NHL against the best players in the world. Last year with Niskanen and Provorov playing big minutes, perhaps Myers was shielded from playing against other teams top players. He was also new in the league so he was not scouted yet. This year, teams are exposing not only Myers, but the entire Flyers defense and they have responded horribly as a group, but Myers has probably responded the worst of the bunch. Maybe Myers just doesn't have that next gear? Or maybe he is best suited for where he played yesterday, as a 3rd pairing defenseman. Not sure where he will end up, but I know where he is right now, and that is a defenseman who can barely get ice time on a bad team!
- jd250

I think Myers is 2 pairing defenseman with the possibility of being 1 pairing DMan in time. Judging him on his worst stretch would be a mistake. Defenseman take time to develop and giving up on him would be a mistake. I would not want us to live through the learning/ development years just to trade him to watch another team have him for the productive years.

I think Myers is 2 pairing defenseman with the possibility of being 1 pairing DMan in time. Judging him on his worst stretch would be a mistake. Defenseman take time to develop and giving up on him would be a mistake. I would not want us to live through the learning/ development years just to trade him to watch another team have him for the productive years.
- Hosher12

Giving up on Myers could be the worst mistake yet

Might as well give up on Provy while we’re at it. He sucked this year too. F what we know he is with a competent and stable top 4 partner. Which is one of the top ten two way dmen in the league.

Wonder how Duncan Keith’s career would’ve gone stapled to Brent sopel