This is an overreaction. The worst thing this franchise could do now is overreact to this season. They need to make some changes. They need to bolster the defense. They need to tweak the forwards. They need to add some N/S players that can skate and get to the net. They need to improve special teams. However they don't need a complete breakdown. They have a lot of quality young talent that will get better.
- MJL

Well what you just suggested they do seems like an awful lot. Seems like very close to an overhaul no?

Underdogs play for each other.

Let’s go Flyers!

Well what you just suggested they do seems like an awful lot. Seems like very close to an overhaul no?
- login

Seriously yes.

we both know he will get more than that. So that is a silly example.

So you rather let him walk or take a 7th rd pick. What do you do?
- login

You said it was that simple. Don't move the goalpost now because you posted a stupid statement.

You said it was that simple. Don't move the goalpost now because you posted a stupid statement.
- MBFlyerfan

moving nothing. It is that simple. You trade him.

yeah stupid statement saying trade the free agents to be.

Why is this not an option? A team bleeds fans with perpetual mediocrity as much as a complete bottoming out. At least with a complete tear down they could get a superstar to sell the fan base at the top of the draft. Yes the possibility exists that they could be Buffalo but they could also be LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh or Washington.
- psuhockey

It took Chicago a long time, a lot of patience (for example. Patrick Sharp didn't instantly blossom after the trade from the Flyers) and some sheer good fortune in hitting home runs on a few non-first round picks (Duncan Keith was a 2nd rounder, Sharp was a 3rd rounder for the Flyers, Byfuglien was an 8th rounder) to build the first of their Cup teams. After they tore down their previous contending nucleus as it aged -- Roenick, Amonte, Belfour, Chelios, etc. -- it took missing the playoffs in nine out of 10 seasons including several with Kane and Toews aboard to finally become a contender.

Pittsburgh gets an asterisk because their franchise, in its second bankruptcy, survived solely off a lockout, the salary cap implementation, a new arena that the taxpayers of Pennsylvania funded and the heavily weighted 2005 lottery (Crosby) as the capstone of several seasons of abject tanking plus very deep top ends of other drafts where they could hardly go wrong with their pick. I credit Ray Shero and Rutherford for adding the right pieces, and the org also hit on some non-first round picks (Letang most notably). But the Penguins model isn't exactly a replicable blueprint.

LA was another long process and one, actually, that Lombardi and Hextall modeled consciously on trying to create a Flyers-like culture because the Kings didn't have one at the point that Dean and Ron left the Flyers to go to LA. Since their two Stanley Cups, the Kings have returned from whence they came: haven't won a playoff series since their 2014 Cup and are heading for missing the playoffs this season for the fifth time in seven years.

It took Chicago a long time, a lot of patience (for example. Patrick Sharp didn't instantly blossom after the trade from the Flyers) and some sheer good in hitting home runs on a few non-first round picks (Duncan Keith was a 2nd rounder, Sharp was a 3rd rounder for the Flyers, Byfuglien was an 8th rounder) to build the first of their Cup teams. After they tore down their previous contending nucleus as it aged -- Roenick, Amonte, Belfour, Chelios, etc. -- it took missing the playoffs in nine out of 10 seasons including several with Kane and Toews aboard to finally become a contender.

Pittsburgh gets an asterisk because their franchise, in its second bankruptcy, survived solely off a lockout, the salary cap implementation, a new arena that the taxpayers of Pennsylvania funded and the heavily weighted 2005 lottery (Crosby) as the capstone of several seasons of abject tanking plus very deep top ends of other drafts where they could hardly go wrong with their pick. I credit Ray Shero and Rutherford for adding the right pieces, and the org also hit on some non-first round picks (Letang most notably). But the Penguins model isn't exactly a replicable blueprint.

LA was another long process and one, actually, that Lombardi and Hextall modeled consciously on trying to create a Flyers-like culture because the Kings didn't have one at the point that Dean and Ron left the Flyers to go to LA. Since their two Stanley Cups, the Kings have returned from whence they came: haven't won a playoff series since their 2014 Cup and are heading for missing the playoffs this season for the fifth time in seven years.
- bmeltzer

Voracek has his pros and cons. Last game, he was the one who scored the goal that cut the gap to 2-1 and then, shortly thereafter, set up the one that Gostisbehere scored. In the last game against the Isles, it was Voracek who teed up a perfect pass to Giroux on the game-tying goal. There are times when Voracek gets into "no one's gonna take this puck away from me" mode where he is still very hard to separate from the puck. Other times, that's missing; a superstar like Peter Forsberg was in the aforementioned mode the majority of the time, whereas players the next tier down like Voracek do that periodically.

My biggest disappointment with Jake this season is that, last year, he had perhaps the best two-way season of his Flyers career. It didn't get mentioned much, but he really did find ways to contribute even when he wasn't creating offense. A season ago, he noticeably focused on the back check, staying on his checks and helping get pucks out. Infallible? No. Much better? Yes. Shortened his shifts significantly compared to 2018-19. This year, he's largely reverted.
- bmeltzer

That's been most telling to me as well how he's not strong on the puck as he once was. Now there's moments where he's getting knocked down on the ice.

He still does have his vintage moments though.

Knowing the flyers they are going to play really well the last 15 games, win most of them but miss the playoff cut by a handful of points leaving us with a what could have been. They really know how to infuriate the fan base. Something has to give with these slow starts and taking periods off. I’m all for bringing in a new face this off-season but it will be next to impossible to move Jake. There really are no cap hits that we could get similar production back.

It took Chicago a long time, a lot of patience (for example. Patrick Sharp didn't instantly blossom after the trade from the Flyers) and some sheer good fortune in hitting home runs on a few non-first round picks (Duncan Keith was a 2nd rounder, Sharp was a 3rd rounder for the Flyers, Byfuglien was an 8th rounder) to build the first of their Cup teams. After they tore down their previous contending nucleus as it aged -- Roenick, Amonte, Belfour, Chelios, etc. -- it took missing the playoffs in nine out of 10 seasons including several with Kane and Toews aboard to finally become a contender.

Pittsburgh gets an asterisk because their franchise, in its second bankruptcy, survived solely off a lockout, the salary cap implementation, a new arena that the taxpayers of Pennsylvania funded and the heavily weighted 2005 lottery (Crosby) as the capstone of several seasons of abject tanking plus very deep top ends of other drafts where they could hardly go wrong with their pick. I credit Ray Shero and Rutherford for adding the right pieces, and the org also hit on some non-first round picks (Letang most notably). But the Penguins model isn't exactly a replicable blueprint.

LA was another long process and one, actually, that Lombardi and Hextall modeled consciously on trying to create a Flyers-like culture because the Kings didn't have one at the point that Dean and Ron left the Flyers to go to LA. Since their two Stanley Cups, the Kings have returned from whence they came: haven't won a playoff series since their 2014 Cup and are heading for missing the playoffs this season for the fifth time in seven years.
- bmeltzer

I'm not gonna lie. If someone had a crystal ball and gave me

1. Missing the playoffs 9 out of 10 years but I was getting 3 Stanley Cups afterwards or

2. Remain in the playoff mix for another 20 years and no cups

I'm going with option 1.

It's not for a lack of effort, but a really telling stat for me was of the 40+ shots the Flyers took Tuesday, G accounted for 0.

I agree on Voracek. He's lost that mojo.
-Pelle31Forever

Its never about effort with this Flyers team, its always been about talent, as in lack of! Compared to the top players around the league, our so-called top players are not really top players. You heard straight from AV the other night when he said "We had some grade A looks and we just didn't bury them, and [the Bruins]top end players did". Its time to clean house and reset around Couts as the captain. Take pennies on the $$ if you have to, but we need to move in a different direction ASAP.

It took Chicago a long time, a lot of patience (for example. Patrick Sharp didn't instantly blossom after the trade from the Flyers) and some sheer good fortune in hitting home runs on a few non-first round picks (Duncan Keith was a 2nd rounder, Sharp was a 3rd rounder for the Flyers, Byfuglien was an 8th rounder) to build the first of their Cup teams. After they tore down their previous contending nucleus as it aged -- Roenick, Amonte, Belfour, Chelios, etc. -- it took missing the playoffs in nine out of 10 seasons including several with Kane and Toews aboard to finally become a contender.

Pittsburgh gets an asterisk because their franchise, in its second bankruptcy, survived solely off a lockout, the salary cap implementation, a new arena that the taxpayers of Pennsylvania funded and the heavily weighted 2005 lottery (Crosby) as the capstone of several seasons of abject tanking plus very deep top ends of other drafts where they could hardly go wrong with their pick. I credit Ray Shero and Rutherford for adding the right pieces, and the org also hit on some non-first round picks (Letang most notably). But the Penguins model isn't exactly a replicable blueprint.

LA was another long process and one, actually, that Lombardi and Hextall modeled consciously on trying to create a Flyers-like culture because the Kings didn't have one at the point that Dean and Ron left the Flyers to go to LA. Since their two Stanley Cups, the Kings have returned from whence they came: haven't won a playoff series since their 2014 Cup and are heading for missing the playoffs this season for the fifth time in seven years.
- bmeltzer

An asterisk for what? Sorry, no asterisk for Pittsburgh. Give them credit for doing whatever was necessary to win. There is no moral high ground in sports.

Its never about effort with this Flyers team, its always been about talent, as in lack of! Compared to the top players around the league, our so-called top players are not really top players. You heard straight from AV the other night when he said "We had some grade A looks and we just didn't bury them, and
- jd250[the Bruins]top end players did". Its time to clean house and reset around Couts as the captain. Take pennies on the $$ if you have to, but we need to move in a different direction ASAP.

I don't want to move for the sake of moving but I also can't keep spending 7 or 8 million dollars on guys for 50 point seasons (when they go back to 82 games.)

An asterisk for what? Sorry, no asterisk for Pittsburgh. Give them credit for doing whatever was necessary to win. There is no moral high ground in sports.
- StepfordSam

my moral high ground left the building when they won their 2nd and 3rd cups

OK, so what is your replacement plan? A tear-down and total rebuild is not going to happen. We all agree that changes are needed, and the teams the Flyers need to compete with next season when the NHL, hopefully, goes back to a normal schedule and games outside the division.

By "more physical", what specifically do you mean? More hits? More fights? Heavier on pucks?

By "faster" what do you mean: Adding more individual speedsters? Or do you mean being less stationary as a team, with better gaps, puck support and feet moving?

BTW, Giroux does more than "put up pretty numbers". You also would have replace the club's top playmaker, one of the most dominant faceoff men in the NHL, someone who can switch back and forth between LW and C without skipping a beat, and someone who, in fact, has been THE catalyst in leading the charge in multiple games the Flyers have managed to win this season.


Want to get rid of Voracek, assuming an actual hockey trade were possible and not just a swapping around of money-for-money? Fine. Suggest a workable deal.

Want a more consistent two-way player? A comparably skilled offensive player who perhaps is a little less playmaker and more of a finisher? Again, suggest something.

I have no problem with the Flyers making a bold move or two by next season. It's needed, agreed. But merely trading just for a trade's sake is counterproductive. Even if it's a temporary step backward in on-paper talent, there has to be corresponding step forward in being consistently tough to play against. It also has to work out cap-wise.

Lastly, it can't bee a total knee-jerk reaction to what has been a very strange and rather precarious and fragile season for every team across the league. I don't think it's wise to simply write everything off and hope the team comes back as a better version of the 2019-20 squad. But it's also not wise to go completely overboard, assume no one bounces back and burn it all to the ground.
- bmeltzer

And therein lies the fatal flaw of this franchise. Ride with mediocrity because starting anew is never an option.

Sad to admit but I’m totally content with the fact that I can’t wait to start rooting for a different franchise next year after 25+ years of Flyers fandom. This is a circus.

dadada

And therein lies the fatal flaw of this franchise. Ride with mediocrity because starting anew is never an option.

Sad to admit but I’m totally content with the fact that I can’t wait to start rooting for a different franchise next year after 25+ years of Flyers fandom. This is a circus.
- hereticpride

see ya

That's been most telling to me as well how he's not strong on the puck as he once was. Now there's moments where he's getting knocked down on the ice.

He still does have his vintage moments though.
- Pelle31Forever

My own personal opinion is Jake came into the season with conditioning issues and he is gassing out more than in prior seasons. As players age, this is not uncommon and they need to put in EXTRA effort just to stay level. I also think that is why you see brain farts with him because he seems tired. Again just my opinion.

He even mentioned in interviews that it was challenging for him to get workouts in because he had trouble finding places to workout in during the offseason (COVID related)

This is an overreaction. The worst thing this franchise could do now is overreact to this season. They need to make some changes. They need to bolster the defense. They need to tweak the forwards. They need to add some N/S players that can skate and get to the net. They need to improve special teams. However they don't need a complete breakdown. They have a lot of quality young talent that will get better.
- MJL

how is it an overreaction, now that the Flyers have all the kids on the big club they should be cup champs, at the very least be guaranteed a playoff spot, if not the last 7 years just didn't work, start over.

OK, so what is your replacement plan? A tear-down and total rebuild is not going to happen. We all agree that changes are needed, and the teams the Flyers need to compete with next season when the NHL, hopefully, goes back to a normal schedule and games outside the division.

By "more physical", what specifically do you mean? More hits? More fights? Heavier on pucks?

By "faster" what do you mean: Adding more individual speedsters? Or do you mean being less stationary as a team, with better gaps, puck support and feet moving?

BTW, Giroux does more than "put up pretty numbers". You also would have replace the club's top playmaker, one of the most dominant faceoff men in the NHL, someone who can switch back and forth between LW and C without skipping a beat, and someone who, in fact, has been THE catalyst in leading the charge in multiple games the Flyers have managed to win this season.


Want to get rid of Voracek, assuming an actual hockey trade were possible and not just a swapping around of money-for-money? Fine. Suggest a workable deal.

Want a more consistent two-way player? A comparably skilled offensive player who perhaps is a little less playmaker and more of a finisher? Again, suggest something.

I have no problem with the Flyers making a bold move or two by next season. It's needed, agreed. But merely trading just for a trade's sake is counterproductive. Even if it's a temporary step backward in on-paper talent, there has to be corresponding step forward in being consistently tough to play against. It also has to work out cap-wise.

Lastly, it can't bee a total knee-jerk reaction to what has been a very strange and rather precarious and fragile season for every team across the league. I don't think it's wise to simply write everything off and hope the team comes back as a better version of the 2019-20 squad. But it's also not wise to go completely overboard, assume no one bounces back and burn it all to the ground.
- bmeltzer

Bill, this poster is not suggesting we go overboard, but its time to face reality, this team is not good. This is not about Covid either, because before this team went on a run last season, they were equally not good! They have had 5 coaches in less than 10 years, and none of them could get this team to show up and play consistently night after night. Its time for a change!

To start though I love Giroux, its time he just play hockey and give the 'C' to Couts. So my first action is after this season, give the 'C' to Couts and then 2022 extend him for 6 years at roughly $8M per season. In 2022 extend Giroux 3 years $4.5M. Next I trade Jake V, cover $2M in salary and take back a contract, but the end result is the team must save at least $3M per season and the contract I take back is shorter term than Jake. Next Fletcher should make it possible for the Kracken to select JVR in the upcoming expansion draft. Next I package Patrick, prospects and picks to see if I can get Ellis or Ekholm from Nashville. I then sign or trade for another solid RHD to shore up the defense. My goal is to have 3 veteran D paired with 3 younger D throughout the season. I sign or trade for a solid veteran top 9 forward, fill the rest of the forward spots with our prospects and see how it goes.

see ya
- KINGKENZO

Have fun drafting in the 10-16 range for the foreseeable future. I’m sure this core will figure it out in year 12. 7th coach is sure to be the charm.

Its not that simple.

Pending UFA: Gus, Raffl, Morin, Elliot, Laughton

Trade gus raffl ? What is their value ? Why would anyone take on salary ? Whats the point for a 5th round pick?

Trade Morin? Gave up on a kid who is finally showing promise.

Trade elliot ? Put 10x more pressure on our young potential franchise goalie in Hart who is already struggling and for what benefit a mid rounder?

Laughton is your only trade piece. And hes a good hockey player and leader on this team. Trading him for anything less than a solid return is a mistake we need more talent not less.
- Tfaehner

Kucherov was 2nd round pick, Point a 3rd round pick. You can find value in these rounds, and also acquiring later round picks give you flexibility to trade up if you want a player in the draft. I would not trade Morin, but every one else on this post absolutely I would; get what you can!

Was it that meager? You got a 1st and a 4th for 2 solid players. I dont think they did that bad.
- login

Those two players are basically contract castoffs. And the 1st will be mid-20's in a shallow, murky draft. This, despite holding full 50% salary. Yikes.

And therein lies the fatal flaw of this franchise. Ride with mediocrity because starting anew is never an option.

Sad to admit but I’m totally content with the fact that I can’t wait to start rooting for a different franchise next year after 25+ years of Flyers fandom. This is a circus.
- hereticpride

take a few other posters with you please. thanks.

Have fun drafting in the 10-16 range for the foreseeable future. I’m sure this core will figure it out in year 12. 7th coach is sure to be the charm.
- hereticpride

Hey look at 2017, slotted to draft 12th, they got a gift from the hockey gods!
And wow, did they really take advantage of it.