A poster here pointed out that the Flyers rank in HDSC allowed has slipped some since last season, but the HDSV% has really fallen to the bottom.

Majority opinion was that absence of team D and continual horrific (frank) ups => shellshock effect on young goalie, leading to an exponential decay in sv% as onslaught piled on.

Having said that, the posters who said this also had anointed Hart as the next Price already, so there might be some bias there.

On a brighter note, Hart flashed leather with a vengeance last game. Not just competent saves: but right-in-your-face-handjobs.
- PT21

I actually picked Hart to win the Vezina in the Hockeybuzz Leafs prediction thread. I haven’t watched a lot of Flyers games this year, but something looks very, very wrong.

There’s a good article in the Athletic today about how Campbell’s career was thrown off course by the mental side. Maybe that’s what is ailing Hart - trying to do too much.

As they say, goaltending is 50% physical, 90% mental.

Now seems like a opportune moment to reflect on why I love reading Bill’s blog and come here for his fantastic insight.

Bug squashed yet again.

Thanks for all your Flyers coverage, Bill!
- NC Flyers Fan

I miss Bill destroying Tanner.

I actually picked Hart to win the Vezina in the Hockeybuzz Leafs prediction thread. I haven’t watched a lot of Flyers games this year, but something looks very, very wrong.

There’s a good article in the Athletic today about how Campbell’s career was thrown off course by the mental side. Maybe that’s what is ailing Hart - trying to do too much.

As they say, goaltending is 50% physical, 90% mental.
- Atomic Wedgie

Hart will be fine long term. All this talk just fuels me to be more unfairly angry with Fletcher for not adequately addressing the top 4 defense vacancy this past offseason.

I think Scotty Bowman deserves a really nice golf clap. After all he coached one of the great teams in NHL history, the 70's Montreal Canadians, comprised mostly of Canadian players that, up to I think 1976, only the Canadians had first dibs to draft. Yes, what an accomplishment! But wait, keep that golf clap going because there's more.

Bowman spends 7 seasons in Buffalo where he has 1 first place finish (the first year he coached the team) but was never able to bring them to the next level. So Bowman goes to the Penguins with Lemieux, Jagr, Stevens, Coffey, Mullen, Murphy, Ron Francis, Rick Tocchet and Bryan Trottier and wins the cup his first year, which BTW ANYONE of us could have coached that team to a Cup. Wait, keep the golf clap going a bit longer.

Then Bowman flees to Detroit where he inherits another stacked team and eventually wins 3 more cups.

So what is the morel of this story? It's that stacked teams make any coach look a lot better than they really are.
- jd250

smh

I miss Bill destroying Tanner.
- Atomic Wedgie

Elliott in goal. Raffl in for Lindblom.

I dont trade him for a draft pick. More valuable to us than a pick is unless you get a feeling he's walking.

Buyers market is questionable. Teams cant take on salary. Teams dont want term if they have to protect them in the draft. Laughton a quality 2 way player on a 2.3 million deal (believe prorated new team would take what 1.1 million?) Is a highly appealing option for teams. Who is selling ? Nashville is said to be keeping their players now. Dallas is said to be keeping their players. Columbus is questionable. Who is selling exactly? It seems like there's only a dozen of available players.
- Tfaehner

IIRC Elliott Friedman said a few times recently that it's a buyers' market out there.

I love the conviction with which you say that without a single word about the other centers and the other competing teams also trying for the same championship.

Its like saying: a 30 goal scorer is absolutely a 1st line forward on a championship team. Shouldn't your condition depend also on who the other forward lines are on the other competing teams?
- PT21

I also believe Sean Couturier is a number 1 center but this fan base will argue to the death that he’s a top ten center in the league. I wanna say a year ago or a couple years ago, a fan on this board presented a top 20 of the number one centers in the league that had Coots at 18. Sounds Reasonable to me. Blasphemy to 80% of the fans who post on this board.

Connor McDavid
Austin Matthews
Leon Draisaitl
Nathan MacKinnon
Sidney Crosby
Steven Stamkos
Evgeni Malkin
Jack Eichel

These names always stay the same.

Patrick Bergeron has owned the Selke, if we are going by this logic. Mark Scheifele has quietly been above a point per game his passed 5 seasons. John Tavares, Nicolas Backstrom have always stayed close to point per game players their entire careers. That’s 12 centers right there. Couturier is important to this team but probably a second line center to a true contender, especially seemingly that Bergeron wins the Selke most years but not a cup on a much better Bruins team.

IIRC Elliott Friedman said a few times recently that it's a buyers' market out there.
- Tomahawk

Buyer's market seems to be this year's buzzword. Friedman has definitely made that remark and he's not the only one.

He's not "my" coach. You put out a statement supported by nothing other than your own dislike of the coach.

I asked you if you'd ever witnessed and compared his practices to other NHL coaches. I will tell you what players have said the difference is, although he's not the only one who uses this method: There is very little standing around and white-boarding at a typical Vigneault practice. Before practice starts, he goes through with the players what all the drills will be, and what order and what the goal is. Last season, Flyers players were raving about the tempo of the practices.

This season, there's been very little practice time. It's not an excuse. The Flyers are in the same boat as every team. But it certainly hasn't helped.

I asked if you've ever talked, formally or informally, with guys who've played for him in different capacities and and different levels of the game. Especially guys who are now retired or otherwise not playing for him anymore and can speak freely of what their experiences were.

I asked if you've ever talked, formally or informally, with assistants who've been on his staff to ask them about their experiences as compared to other staffs they've been part of. I've been told the summer prep meetings for training camp are some oft the most thorough -- and enjoyable -- they've done, and that AV is very good about communicating with them, soliciting their input and talking out ideas and opinions.

To knowledgeably say that AV is an "average coach" and just part of the "old-boys club" entails some knowledge of the above areas with input from those who've worked with him or played for him. Otherwise, it's just posting a hot take.

P.S. The other day, I wrote a blog that was critical of the job Vigneault did during the March struggles. But his overall body of work in the NHL and with the Flyers is absolutely that of a well above-average NHL head coach.
- bmeltzer

Not dislike at all. Just don’t think he is that great a coach. Nothing more nothing less

I actually picked Hart to win the Vezina in the Hockeybuzz Leafs prediction thread. I haven’t watched a lot of Flyers games this year, but something looks very, very wrong.

There’s a good article in the Athletic today about how Campbell’s career was thrown off course by the mental side. Maybe that’s what is ailing Hart - trying to do too much.

As they say, goaltending is 50% physical, 90% mental.
- Atomic Wedgie

I put 10 on Fanduel for his ass to win Vezina.

Not good, youngin!!!

I also believe Sean Couturier is a number 1 center but this fan base will argue to the death that he’s a top ten center in the league. I wanna say a year ago or a couple years ago, a fan on this board presented a top 20 of the number one centers in the league that had Coots at 18. Sounds Reasonable to me. Blasphemy to 80% of the fans who post on this board.

Connor McDavid
Austin Matthews
Leon Draisaitl
Nathan MacKinnon
Sidney Crosby
Steven Stamkos
Evgeni Malkin
Jack Eichel

These names always stay the same.

Patrick Bergeron has owned the Selke, if we are going by this logic. Mark Scheifele has quietly been above a point per game his passed 5 seasons. John Tavares, Nicolas Backstrom have always stayed close to point per game players their entire careers. That’s 12 centers right there. Couturier is important to this team but probably a second line center to a true contender, especially seemingly that Bergeron wins the Selke most years but not a cup on a much better Bruins team.
- SuperSchennBros

It was last year, and it was #17. This year, same list, it is #18 (the list on nhl.com).

Some doubt about whether Stamkos is still going to play center going forward. He has been on Point's wing and on Cirelli's wing this season. A poster (Tomahawk, who you will notice has switched team allegiance yet again) pointed out that Eichel has somewhat surprisingly underwhelming 5-on-5 points/60 and his high ppg could be an artefact of very large minutes for a 1C.

And you missed the two young studs: Aho and Point, and the upcoming young stud, Petersson. Then there is Barkov, who tends to fly under the radar because he plays in Florida.

I just don't see the massive injustice in simultaneously acknowledging that Couts is a very good player but not a top 10 center. The evidence tilts that way.

why does NBC Sports app say tonight's game is postponed?

He's not "my" coach. You put out a statement supported by nothing other than your own dislike of the coach.

I asked you if you'd ever witnessed and compared his practices to other NHL coaches. I will tell you what players have said the difference is, although he's not the only one who uses this method: There is very little standing around and white-boarding at a typical Vigneault practice. Before practice starts, he goes through with the players what all the drills will be, and what order and what the goal is. Last season, Flyers players were raving about the tempo of the practices.

This season, there's been very little practice time. It's not an excuse. The Flyers are in the same boat as every team. But it certainly hasn't helped.

I asked if you've ever talked, formally or informally, with guys who've played for him in different capacities and and different levels of the game. Especially guys who are now retired or otherwise not playing for him anymore and can speak freely of what their experiences were.

I asked if you've ever talked, formally or informally, with assistants who've been on his staff to ask them about their experiences as compared to other staffs they've been part of. I've been told the summer prep meetings for training camp are some oft the most thorough -- and enjoyable -- they've done, and that AV is very good about communicating with them, soliciting their input and talking out ideas and opinions.

To knowledgeably say that AV is an "average coach" and just part of the "old-boys club" entails some knowledge of the above areas with input from those who've worked with him or played for him. Otherwise, it's just posting a hot take.

P.S. The other day, I wrote a blog that was critical of the job Vigneault did during the March struggles. But his overall body of work in the NHL and with the Flyers is absolutely that of a well above-average NHL head coach.
- bmeltzer

Selke Trophy winners that score over 30 in a season are 100% number 1 centers on championship teams. It isn't coots fault that the Flyers are not a championship caliber team.
- Richieattack18

oh gee wilkiers he hasn't scored that much since 2019 and had no sustained history of scoring that much! you must love Jonathan Cheechoo! he scored 50+ goals once!

Connor McDavid
Austin Matthews
Leon Draisaitl
Nathan MacKinnon
Sidney Crosby
Steven Stamkos
Evgeni Malkin
Jack Eichel
- SuperSchennBros

Weird that people will say Coots is not a #1 C on a contender, yet you look at this list of these so-called best C's in the league, and outside of Sid and Geno, none of them have won poop. Stamkos played like 2mins of their Cup run and the rest are... kinda unaccomplished. Also, pretty sure I can easily think of a half-dozen or more Cs that are better today than Jack Eichel, possibly including Coots lol.

Weird that people will say Coots is not a #1 C on a contender, yet you look at this list of these so-called best C's in the league, and outside of Sid and Geno, none of them have won poop. Stamkos played like 2mins of their Cup run and the rest are... kinda unaccomplished. Also, pretty sure I can easily think of a half-dozen or more Cs that are better today than Jack Eichel, possibly including Coots lol.
- Tomahawk

It doesn’t fit their narrative though, don’t point things out like that

Weird that people will say Coots is not a #1 C on a contender, yet you look at this list of these so-called best C's in the league, and outside of Sid and Geno, none of them have won poop. Stamkos played like 2mins of their Cup run and the rest are... kinda unaccomplished. Also, pretty sure I can easily think of a half-dozen or more Cs that are better today than Jack Eichel, possibly including Coots lol.
- Tomahawk

Couturier is like Schenn wins a cup as the 2nd line center not the first

A poster here pointed out that the Flyers rank in HDSC allowed has slipped some since last season, but the HDSV% has really fallen to the bottom.

Majority opinion was that absence of team D and continual horrific (frank) ups => shellshock effect on young goalie, leading to an exponential decay in sv% as onslaught piled on.

Having said that, the posters who said this also had anointed Hart as the next Price already, so there might be some bias there.

On a brighter note, Hart flashed leather with a vengeance last game. Not just competent saves: but right-in-your-face-handjobs.
- PT21

More hyperbole from you. Nobody has anointed Hart as the next Price already. That is false. Many, myself included have said that Hart has the potential to be a #1 goalie and one of the best goaltenders in the league. You aren't doing your credibility any favors when you consistently try and take shots at people with inaccurate statements.

Weird that people will say Coots is not a #1 C on a contender, yet you look at this list of these so-called best C's in the league, and outside of Sid and Geno, none of them have won poop. Stamkos played like 2mins of their Cup run and the rest are... kinda unaccomplished. Also, pretty sure I can easily think of a half-dozen or more Cs that are better today than Jack Eichel, possibly including Coots lol.
- Tomahawk

So, now the standard of #1C on a contending club has shifted from numerical analysis which flatters Couts but leaves him out of top 10, to opinion analyses of outside writers (what do they know!) that does the same, to being actual past winners?

I think Couts could have been a #1C contender, on clubs like say Blues, or Barry Trotz's Preds, or even perhaps Boston though Bergeron is faster. But not here.

Let me ask you a question. Suppose we did not have Couts in the lineup. Lets say then we are a 20-26th ranked club, which seems reasonable.

Woud you sign him for 9 mil 8 years at the age of 30 after so many injuries to a new contract to the same club?

A poster here pointed out that the Flyers rank in HDSC allowed has slipped some since last season, but the HDSV% has really fallen to the bottom.

Majority opinion was that absence of team D and continual horrific (frank) ups => shellshock effect on young goalie, leading to an exponential decay in sv% as onslaught piled on.

Having said that, the posters who said this also had anointed Hart as the next Price already, so there might be some bias there.

On a brighter note, Hart flashed leather with a vengeance last game. Not just competent saves: but right-in-your-face-handjobs.
- PT21

Not sure if this is to me. I love Hart and believe in him 100%. However the exGA for our goaltending in March was 40 goals against. We gave up 75. That is much more than just poor defense. It didn't help. But our goaltending has been atrocious. I do think some of that to your point is confidence and also over compensating for a bad team defense and trying to do too much with in turn leads to unnecessary goals against.

I wouldnt mind getting a more capable 1a 1b goaltender to pair with Hart for another few years ie bishop vasilevsky. Elliot is amazing in a secondary capacity but seems to slip soon as the volume of games creeps up.

IIRC Elliott Friedman said a few times recently that it's a buyers' market out there.
- Tomahawk

He has but the way I took it with context was they could pick their poison. As in the case of Ekholm and other d men hes also said they are able to firmly ask for their price and if nobody meets it happy to keep them. And for that reason the prices are not anticipated to come down. Many content to not make moves until the off season if its not deemed a solid return.

So, now the standard of #1C on a contending club has shifted from numerical analysis which flatters Couts but leaves him out of top 10, to opinion analyses of outside writers (what do they know!) that does the same, to being actual past winners?


- PT21

No, it hasn't shifted at all. Numerical analysis of Couturier doesn't leave him in the top 10. It puts him in the top 10.

Here is something to shake things up a little:

Next year: Trade Couturier for 1st rounder + picks/prospects (never mind what the +, read on to get to point, point is we get a first rounder and not too much salary back).
Ditto Giroux.

This year: one of JVR/gone gone with sweeteners.

Next year summer: Offer sheet Brayden Point:11 million 7 years.

2 of the 4 firsts given up are recovered. You get a 26 year old guy who is much more aligned with age of young kids coming up.

After the next 2-3 years, after the other of Voracek/JVR contract comes off:

Bee-Point-TK
Frost/Lindblom-Hayes-Foerster
Lindblom-Frost/Patrick-Wisdom
Ratcliffe-Vet-Sandin/Allison

Provy-Myers/Vet
Sanheim-York/Myers
Sanheim/York-Zamula

Not sure if this is to me. I love Hart and believe in him 100%. However the exGA for our goaltending in March was 40 goals against. We gave up 75. That is much more than just poor defense. It didn't help. But our goaltending has been atrocious. I do think some of that to your point is confidence and also over compensating for a bad team defense and trying to do too much with in turn leads to unnecessary goals against.

I wouldnt mind getting a more capable 1a 1b goaltender to pair with Hart for another few years ie bishop vasilevsky. Elliot is amazing in a secondary capacity but seems to slip soon as the volume of games creeps up.
- Tfaehner

What do you think the reason was why Hart lost the fundamentals of his game. Lost the technical aspects of his play? Do you think it was just something that happened. Or was there a trigger that led to that? Things like that just don't happen randomly.