The market has to develop closer to the trade deadline. There are players that might be available to a contender closer to the deadline that aren't available now that are a bigger upgrade over Gostisbehere. Teams that think they can contend are not going to tie up whatever cap maneuverability they have with Gostisbehere if they think they add a better player in a week or two.
- MJL

In a way, this may have been a very clever move on Fletcher's part doing it at this time. He likely had an excellent read on the market and felt like this was a time to clear some cap space with very little risk to losing Ghost. I'm curious to see how this plays out with the team and their effort going forward.

I don't remember when people were saying they are dead in the water. They have had decent success intermittently ever since the cup. The years you speak of were Marchand coming into his prime, and Bergeron in perpetual Selke contention.

But I disagree they are legit contenders now. They are essentially a one line team, as the last round of their last playoffs starkly proved.

I think the difference between you and me is that you are content to sort of keep the fire burning, the way you phrase "still standing and competitive," while I want more.
- PT21

That one-line team was enough to take down the tanky Leafs PO after PO, tho. And they've only been beaten by the eventual Cup champions two seasons in row. And again, the guys that drive that bus are all low-drafted super-achievers that literally nobody pegged as 'elite' until they lo and behold were elite.

So yeah, I'll take that level of competitiveness for the Flyers. At the end of the day there's 30+ other teams, and a lot can go wrong/right, so sustaining competitiveness and hoping probability shakes your way is actually the name of the game. And I have a hunch that we'll see one or more of these kids massively overshoot expectations, as Giroux and Gagne and Williams and Sharp and Richards and Bobrovsky have in the past. You know my personal money is on Frost, Brink and Myers.

2 mil hit plays right side, moves the puck well. I've watched him play lately, not bad but then again I am comparing him to our D. He is on an expiring contract and he is a fit for right D and he plays actual D. I prefer Ghost plays and our D magically plays up to their potential.
- wcorvette

Even if Vantanen (or Manson or Savard or...) isn't the answer, we have to do something for right side depth for next season.

All we have on the farm is Wyatte Wylie, who at best may project out at bottom pair), Adam Ginning overseas who to be honest looks like a AHL or European league player at this point and Attard who may still play college hockey for the foreseeable future.

It doesn't have to be before the trade deadline but we need a better solution than Gus or Braun (although he's been serviceable)

All 3 do. I know JVR is having one of his best seasons in orange and black, but we all know how streaky he is.

End of the day for me, Flyers are spending 7-8 million on these guys and getting 2 million dollar results.
- Pelle31Forever

I appreciate that but it seems like JVR is less attractive to other teams than G and V. I really want Voraceks personality off this team. We won’t be that lucky to get rid off 2 of them, let alone three. As people have said before, you’re probably don’t trade G. We just got JVR back, he has history with us and is playing ok. Voracek seems like the odd man out - poopty attitude, not producing- seems like the type of player to influence younger guys to tune out coaches

Even if Vantanen (or Manson or Savard or...) isn't the answer, we have to do something for right side depth for next season.

All we have on the farm is Wyatte Wylie, who at best may project out at bottom pair), Adam Ginning overseas who to be honest looks like a AHL or European league player at this point and Attard who may still play college hockey for the foreseeable future.

It doesn't have to be before the trade deadline but we need a better solution than Gus or Braun (although he's been serviceable)
- juiced

They do but I was referring to if Ghost was not in and who could they get on the cheap to try to make the playoffs this season. While Fletcher needs to stay the course he should get them help this season as long as they have a shot. If the right long term right D come up that is fine, make the deal but I think those deals will be over the summer

so McDavid gives an elbow to the head and gets a fine?

https://www.yahoo.com/spo...kotkaniemi-155247163.html

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Morin
Myers-Hagg

You're wrong on two accounts here. How you can say that people haven't been saying they're dead in the water, is puzzling. Not in those exact terms but pretty much that. You're also wrong to suggest that as a fan that Tomahawk doesn't want more than to be still standing and competitive. That's simply illogical on your part.
- MJL

MJ... PT21 was waived earlier today and was picked up by another board, HF. This is what we call "addition by subtraction" here at Flyers Buzz.

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Morin
Myers-Hagg
- black_francis

Good lord is this franchise in deep deep mediocre territory for the extended future. Just incredible how this organization is all the sudden a bottom 5 in this league...there's really no disputing it. Vets are overpriced and comfortable collecting a check (not dishing ANY out)and run out coaches, all the great prospects are mediocre to good only, not a single elite one. The prospect pool is somewhat deep but pretty much no impactful players...just a sad sad situation to still be in this position after a decade of being the definition of mediocrity.

Absolutely.
- hereticpride

Get ready for a second wave of mediocrity. It is coming with headlines flashing and sirens blaring. This is what I likely think happens in the next 5-10 years.

(Warning: NOVEL ALERT)

2021-22: With proper training camp and practice, and a likely unwise good but not great FA signing (Ekholm/Risto/Ellis type), we will fare better, meaning 1st perhaps even 2nd round of playoffs (where we will be quickly dispatched). Just like in 2019-20, we will again hear the narrative - we are so much better than last year and trending in the right direction.

2022-23 to 2023-24 (2 years):

Couturier signs for 7 years at about 8.5, Giroux for 3 at 6.25. Together with Hayes, that will be 22 million against the cap. Best case scenario, either Jake or JVR gets picked up in ED. But the other will likely mean about 3 million withheld at least. So, its either 4 of these guys for 30 odd or the first 3 + dead money totaling 25 million

The youngsters, even if they are going to be superstars someday (and I am skeptical of that premise anyway), are very likely not going to reach that status by then (that's just within the next 3 years), based on this year. We will stay in the 1st-2nd round range above because you will not get 25-30 million worth of playoff production from the vet combination mentioned above (preceding paragraph).

3-4 years after that:

People will finally accept that Provorov is not the #1 guy who leads you to the cup.

And Couturier is 33-36. There is no forward who played the hard minutes for so long and has had so many joint injuries (knee, shoulder) whose play did not start to decline at this age. Even sturdier forwards like Staal and Getzlaf started to go south from their previous levels. This does not mean he will be bad. It means he will be about a 70ish point player rather than a 85 point player. Not the kind who can be your #1c for a cup. Yet the salary hit will not go down.

Things like Frost becoming your #1C of a cup caliber level and Meyers/York being your #1 D of a cup caliber level seems very wishful thinking. Which means we don;t have a championship caliber center or #1 D at this stage.


Throughout this stage, we will have picked in the mid-teens or worse. Our prospects then will be largely like we have now. Good to very good but not great.

We will enter 2030s pretty much like we entered 2020s, and will extend TK and Farabee and Provorov like we will extend Giroux after next year.

Just incredible how this organization is all the sudden a bottom 5 in this league...there's really no disputing it.
- eabrenner

I see somebody's a bit disconnected from reality.

Canucks could be a good trade partner. Well the bottom half of the North division should be, the top 4 have been pretty much set. The bottom 4 might want to deal

the Flyers might have made the playoffs in this division, or just missed.

so McDavid gives an elbow to the head and gets a fine?

https://www.yahoo.com/spo...kotkaniemi-155247163.html
- wcorvette

Dayum! That was some James Neal level crap.

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Morin
Myers-Hagg
- black_francis

No morning skate, is this for real?

That one-line team was enough to take down the tanky Leafs PO after PO, tho. And they've only been beaten by the eventual Cup champions two seasons in row. And again, the guys that drive that bus are all low-drafted super-achievers that literally nobody pegged as 'elite' until they lo and behold were elite.

So yeah, I'll take that level of competitiveness for the Flyers. At the end of the day there's 30+ other teams, and a lot can go wrong/right, so sustaining competitiveness and hoping probability shakes your way is actually the name of the game. And I have a hunch that we'll see one or more of these kids massively overshoot expectations, as Giroux and Gagne and Williams and Sharp and Richards and Bobrovsky have in the past. You know my personal money is on Frost, Brink and Myers.
- Tomahawk

Boston is one exception to the draft high rule, but please remember: they signed a stud, coveted FA in Chara at the beginning of his prime. That was their anchor. The other exception is Detroit, with their huge haul of superstars from abroad who were picked low.

But to your thesis bolded below: Its absolutely not. I do not understand how a smart guy like you can repeatedly not look in the face of overwhelming evidence. It is mind-boggling to me.

How many times do we need to go over this? Look at the teams that actually won the cups this past 15 years. Where did Chicago draft? Where did Pens draft? Where was Doughty drafted? How about Hedman? How about Pietro? Where was Staal drafted?

I see somebody's a bit disconnected from reality.
- Tomahawk

So you don't think this team is there right now and likely staying there? I mean the past 5 weeks or so they are playing at a bottom 5 level, the vets aren't very good, the youth is still not developed and seemingly not going to, prospects are mediocre, name one potential game changer other than hopefully York...jeez.
Goaltending looks terrible, they're completely mishandling Hart, Fletcher is proving he is what he was in Minny...I mean where's the argument this team isn't what it's showing the past month/month and a half?

This organization can do nothing right for any sustained period they always regress back to being a joke and have been for a long long time now. Since the cap era they have been outright terrible most of the time and nothing in the crystal ball says that's going to change any time soon.

Franchise is completely irrelevant and couldn't be more boring as far as entertainment value if they tried to be boring.

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Morin
Myers-Hagg
- black_francis

Hagg back early from his injury?

Where did you see this?

Hagg back early from his injury?

Where did you see this?
- MBFlyerfan

He didn't see it.

That one-line team was enough to take down the tanky Leafs PO after PO, tho. And they've only been beaten by the eventual Cup champions two seasons in row. And again, the guys that drive that bus are all low-drafted super-achievers that literally nobody pegged as 'elite' until they lo and behold were elite.

So yeah, I'll take that level of competitiveness for the Flyers. At the end of the day there's 30+ other teams, and a lot can go wrong/right, so sustaining competitiveness and hoping probability shakes your way is actually the name of the game. And I have a hunch that we'll see one or more of these kids massively overshoot expectations, as Giroux and Gagne and Williams and Sharp and Richards and Bobrovsky have in the past. You know my personal money is on Frost, Brink and Myers.
- Tomahawk

You shouldn't let facts and logic get in the way of a good narrative.

I see somebody's a bit disconnected from reality.
- Tomahawk

The team is way closer to the bottom 5 teams than they are to the top 5

2020 43-21-6 Won Final
2019 62-16-4 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2018 54-23-5 Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)
2017 42-30-10 Missed Playoffs
2016 46-31-5 Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)
2015 50-24-8 Lost Stanley Cup Final (Won 3 Rounds)
2014 46-27-9 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2013 18-26-4 Missed Playoffs
2012 38-36-8 Missed Playoffs
2011 46-25-11 Lost Conference Finals (Won 2 Rounds)
2010 34-36-12 Missed Playoffs
2009 24-40-18 Missed Playoffs
2008 31-42-9 Missed Playoffs
2007 44-33-5 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)
2006 43-33-6 Lost First Round (Won 0 Rounds)

2002–03 2002–03 Western Pacific 3rd 82 33 36 6 7 78 203 221 — — — — — Did not qualify
2003–04 2003–04 Western Pacific 3rd 82 28 29 16 9 81 205 217 — — — — — Did not qualify
2004–052 2004–05 Season cancelled due to 2004–05 NHL lockout
2005–063 2005–06 Western Pacific 4th 82 42 35 — 5 89 249 270 — — — — — Did not qualify
2006–07 2006–07 Western Pacific 4th 82 27 41 — 14 68 227 283 — — — — — Did not qualify
2007–08 2007–08 Western Pacific 5th 82 32 43 — 7 71 231 283 — — — — — Did not qualify
2008–09 2008–09 Western Pacific 5th 82 34 37 — 11 79 207 234 — — — — — Did not qualify
2009–10 2009–10 Western Pacific 3rd 82 46 27 — 9 101 241 219 6 2 4 18 25 Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 2–4 (Canucks)
2010–11 2010–11 Western Pacific 4th 82 46 30 — 6 98 219 198 6 2 4 20 20 Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 2–4 (Sharks)
2011–12 2011–12 WesternConference champions Pacific 3rd 82 40 27 — 15 95 194 179 20 16 4 57 30 Won in Conference Quarterfinals, 4–1 (Canucks)
Won in Conference Semifinals, 4–0 (Blues)
Won in Conference Finals, 4–1 (Coyotes)
Stanley Cup champions, 4–2 (Devils)Stanley Cup champions
2012–134 2012–13 Western Pacific 2nd 48 27 16 — 5 59 133 118 18 9 9 37 34 Won in Conference Quarterfinals, 4–2 (Blues)
Won in Conference Semifinals, 4–3 (Sharks)
Lost in Conference Finals, 1–4 (Blackhawks)
2013–14 2013–14 WesternConference champions Pacific 3rd 82 46 28 — 8 100 206 174 26 16 10 88 70 Won in First Round, 4–3 (Sharks)
Won in Second Round, 4–3 (Ducks)
Won in Conference Finals, 4–3 (Blackhawks)
Stanley Cup champions, 4–1 (Rangers)Stanley Cup champions
2014–15 2014–15 Western Pacific 4th 82 40 27 — 15 95 220 205 — — — — — Did not qualify
2015–16 2015–16 Western Pacific 2nd 82 48 28 — 6 102 225 195 5 1 4 11 16 Lost in First Round, 1–4 (Sharks)
2016–17 2016–17 Western Pacific 5th 82 39 35 — 8 86 201 205 — — — — — Did not qualify
2017–18 2017–18 Western Pacific 4th 82 45 29 — 8 98 239 203 4 0 4 3 7 Lost in First Round, 0–4 (Golden Knights)
2018–19 2018–19 Western Pacific 8th 82 31 42 — 9 71 202 263 — — — — — Did not qualify
2019–205 2019–20 Western Pacific 7th 70 29 35 — 6 64 178 212 — — — — — Did not qualify

eason Lg Team GP W L T OL PTS PTS% SRS SOS Finish Playoffs Coaches Division Conference
2020-21 NHL St. Louis Blues 35 16 13 6 38 .543 -0.55 -0.18 4th of 8 C. Berube (16-13-6) West
2019-20 NHL St. Louis Blues* 71 42 19 10 94 .662 0.47 0.02 1st of 7 Lost NHL First Round C. Berube (42-19-10) Central Western
2018-19 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 45 28 9 99 .604 0.28 -0.01 2nd of 7 Won Stanley Cup Final M. Yeo (7-9-3), C. Berube (38-19-6) Central Western
2017-18 NHL St. Louis Blues 82 44 32 6 94 .573 0.10 0.05 5th of 7 M. Yeo (44-32-6) Central Western
2016-17 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 46 29 7 99 .604 0.17 -0.04 3rd of 7 Lost NHL Second Round K. Hitchcock (24-21-5), M. Yeo (22-8-2) Central Western
2015-16 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 49 24 9 107 .652 0.28 0.00 2nd of 7 Lost NHL Conference Finals K. Hitchcock (49-24-9) Central Western
2014-15 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 51 24 7 109 .665 0.59 0.02 1st of 7 Lost NHL First Round K. Hitchcock (51-24-7) Central Western
2013-14 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 52 23 7 111 .677 0.71 0.01 2nd of 7 Lost NHL First Round K. Hitchcock (52-23-7) Central Western
2012-13 NHL St. Louis Blues* 48 29 17 2 60 .625 0.31 0.02 2nd of 5 Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals K. Hitchcock (29-17-2) Central Western
2011-12 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 49 22 11 109 .665 0.54 -0.01 1st of 5 Lost NHL Conference Semi-Finals D. Payne (6-7-0), K. Hitchcock (43-15-11) Central Western
2010-11 NHL St. Louis Blues 82 38 33 11 87 .530 0.11 0.04 4th of 5 D. Payne (38-33-11) Central Western
2009-10 NHL St. Louis Blues 82 40 32 10 90 .549 0.08 0.06 4th of 5 A. Murray (17-17-6), D. Payne (23-15-4) Central Western
2008-09 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 41 31 10 92 .561 0.05 0.05 3rd of 5 Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals A. Murray (41-31-10) Central Western
2007-08 NHL St. Louis Blues 82 33 36 13 79 .482 -0.24 0.16 5th of 5 A. Murray (33-36-13) Central Western
2006-07 NHL St. Louis Blues 82 34 35 13 81 .494 -0.33 0.15 3rd of 5 M. Kitchen (7-17-4), A. Murray (27-18-9) Central Western
2005-06 NHL St. Louis Blues 82 21 46 15 57 .348 -1.09 0.07 5th of 5 M. Kitchen (21-46-15) Central Western
2003-04 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 39 30 11 2 91 .555 -0.09 -0.01 2nd of 5 Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals J. Quenneville (29-23-7-2), M. Kitchen (10-7-4-0) Central Western
2002-03 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 41 24 11 6 99 .604 0.43 0.05 2nd of 5 Lost NHL Conference Quarter-Finals J. Quenneville (41-24-11-6) Central Western
2001-02 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 43 27 8 4 98 .598 0.54 0.07 2nd of 5 Lost NHL Conference Semi-Finals J. Quenneville (43-27-8-4) Central Western
2000-01 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 43 22 12 5 103 .628 0.67 0.01 2nd of 5 Lost NHL Conference Finals J. Quenneville (43-22-12-5) Central Western
1999-00 NHL St. Louis Blues* 82 51 19 11 1 114 .695 1.08 0.07 1st of 4 Lost N

The team is way closer to the bottom 5 teams than they are to the top 5
- corduroy

Disagree. All of the top teams in the NHL have lost 9-0 and 8-3 in the same week.

1999–2000 1999–2000 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 82 44 24 12 2[d] 102 227 194 5 1 4 — 6 15 Lost Conference Quarterfinals to Pittsburgh Penguins, 1–4[21]
2000–01 2000–01 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 82 41 27 10 4 96 233 211 6 2 4 — 10 14 Lost Conference Quarterfinals to Pittsburgh Penguins, 2–4[22]
2001–02 2001–02 Eastern Southeast 2nd 82 36 33 11 2 85 228 240 — — — — — — Did not qualify
2002–03 2002–03 Eastern Southeast 2nd 82 39 29 8 6 92 224 220 6 2 4 — 15 14 Lost Conference Quarterfinals to Tampa Bay Lightning, 2–4[23]
2003–04 2003–04 Eastern Southeast 5th 82 23 46 10 3 59 186 253 — — — — — — Did not qualify
2004–05[e] 2004–05 Eastern Southeast Season cancelled due to 2004–05 NHL lockout
2005–06 2005–06 Eastern Southeast 5th 82 29 41 —[f] 12 70 237 306 — — — — — — Did not qualify
2006–07 2006–07 Eastern Southeast 5th 82 28 40 — 14 70 235 286 — — — — — — Did not qualify
2007–08 2007–08 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 82 43 31 — 8 94 242 231 7 3 4 — 20 23 Lost Conference Quarterfinals to Philadelphia Flyers, 3–4[24]
2008–09 2008–09 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 82 50 24 — 8 108 272 245 14 7 7 — 41 38 Won Conference Quarterfinals vs. New York Rangers, 4–3
Lost Conference Semifinals to Pittsburgh Penguins, 3–4[25]
2009–10 2009–10 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 82 54 15 — 13 121# 318 233 7 3 4 — 22 20 Lost Conference Quarterfinals to Montreal Canadiens, 3–4[26]
2010–11 2010–11 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 82 48 23 — 11 107 224 197 9 4 5 — 23 24 Won Conference Quarterfinals vs. New York Rangers, 4–1
Lost Conference Semifinals to Tampa Bay Lightning, 0–4[27]
2011–12 2011–12 Eastern Southeast 2nd 82 42 32 — 8 92 222 230 14 7 7 — 28 30 Won Conference Quarterfinals vs. Boston Bruins, 4-3
Lost Conference Semifinals to New York Rangers, 3–4[28]
2012–13[h] 2012–13 Eastern SoutheastDivision champions 1st 48 27 18 — 3 57 149 130 7 3 4 — 13 15 Lost Conference Quarterfinals to New York Rangers, 3–4[29]
2013–14 2013–14 Eastern Metropolitan 5th 82 38 30 — 14 90 235 240 — — — — — — Did not qualify
2014–15 2014–15 Eastern Metropolitan 2nd 82 45 26 — 11 101 242 203 14 7 7 — 28 28 Won First Round vs. New York Islanders, 4–3
Lost Second Round to New York Rangers, 3–4[30]
2015–16 2015–16 Eastern MetropolitanDivision champions 1st 82 56 18 — 8 120# 252 193 12 6 6 — 29 22 Won First Round vs. Philadelphia Flyers, 4–2
Lost Second Round to Pittsburgh Penguins, 2–4[31]
2016–17 2016–17 Eastern MetropolitanDivision champions 1st 82 55 19 — 8 118# 263 182 13 7 6 — 36 34 Won First Round vs. Toronto Maple Leafs, 4–2
Lost Second Round to Pittsburgh Penguins, 3–4
2017–18dagger 2017–18 EasternConference champions MetropolitanDivision champions 1st 82 49 26 — 7 105 259 239 24 16 8 — 86 61 Won First Round vs. Columbus Blue Jackets 4–2
Won Second Round vs. Pittsburgh Penguins 4–2
Won Conference Finals vs. Tampa Bay Lightning 4–3
Won Stanley Cup Finals vs. Vegas Golden Knights 4–1
2018–19 2018–19 Eastern MetropolitanDivision champions 1st 82 48 26 — 8 104 278 249 7 3 4 — 20 21 Lost First Round to Carolina Hurricanes 3–4
2019–20 2019–20 Eastern MetropolitanDivision champions 1st 69 41 20 — 8 90 240 215 8 2 5 1 13 24 Finished third in seeding round-robin (1–1–1)
Lost First Round to New York Islanders 1–