Totally shocked a top 4 dman on a cost controlled contract wasn't claimed. Teams always need D help. Don't want to hear the cap nonsense as that's why he wasn't claimed. If any team thought he was a top 4 dman they would have claimed him and found a way; being only 27 and all in his prime.

We shall see now if the Flyers perspective changes and they move him while eating $$ or take back an equally overpaid contract.
- login

You can't be referring to Ghost as a top 4 dman?

Hagg back early from his injury?

Where did you see this?
- MBFlyerfan

yeah in hindsight I offered no context to this post


these are the only combos I could see/would like to see in the near future given the situation with Ghost and really not wanting to play Gus or Prosser. And barring we don't make a trade for a d-man or Niskanen's corpse doesn't show up to Skate Zone tomorrow.

and I use the phrase "would like to see" VERY loosely.

He didn't see it.
- Letterkenney

no, i just paired puck movers with stay at home d

Dayum! That was some James Neal level crap.
- MBFlyerfan

He deserves some attention next time those teams meet.

no, i just paired puck movers with stay at home d
- black_francis

I would assume Ghost is playing tonight.

I appreciate that but it seems like JVR is less attractive to other teams than G and V. I really want Voraceks personality off this team. We won’t be that lucky to get rid off 2 of them, let alone three. As people have said before, you’re probably don’t trade G. We just got JVR back, he has history with us and is playing ok. Voracek seems like the odd man out - poopty attitude, not producing- seems like the type of player to influence younger guys to tune out coaches
- black_francis

G will be a Flyer for life. I'm full prepared for that unless he wants to leave to go ring chasing.

You can't be referring to Ghost as a top 4 dman?
- opeth_pa

I am not no; there are others who have said he is a legit top 4 dman.

Does this go down as another bad contract given out by Ronald?

G will be a Flyer for life. I'm full prepared for that unless he wants to leave to go ring chasing.
- Pelle31Forever

I feel the same way. And then it comes down to Voracek and JVR. Assuming you have to keep one I'd like JVR on my team all day.

G will be a Flyer for life. I'm full prepared for that unless he wants to leave to go ring chasing.
- Pelle31Forever

What’s he have, like 2 more years on his contract?
It’ll be up to the Flyers if they want to keep him, because I think he’d just assume stay. Maybe Montreal could pry him away as a FA if they’re close to a Cup and we’re not really competing.

How does a team like Detroit pass, they barely have any contracts on the book for next year on defense
- ClaudeFather

Perhaps, $4.5 mils is a bit overpaid for what Ghost brings

no, i just paired puck movers with stay at home d
- black_francis

Gotcha! As you just said in the post above, no context was provided.

Boston is one exception to the draft high rule, but please remember: they signed a stud, coveted FA in Chara at the beginning of his prime. That was their anchor. The other exception is Detroit, with their huge haul of superstars from abroad who were picked low.

But to your thesis bolded below: Its absolutely not. I do not understand how a smart guy like you can repeatedly not look in the face of overwhelming evidence. It is mind-boggling to me.

How many times do we need to go over this? Look at the teams that actually won the cups this past 15 years. Where did Chicago draft? Where did Pens draft? Where was Doughty drafted? How about Hedman? How about Pietro? Where was Staal drafted?
- PT21

Why do you keep talking like the Flyers haven't had their shots at lottery-grade talent? They were slated get Patrick Kane in 2007 but lost the lottery. They got 2nd-overall again but too bad the Nolan Patrick draft was weak at the top. They've had multiple top-10 picks in a 15-year span, yielding a legit #1 C and a 25-min dman.

Their spread of draft positions actually doesn't look that much different than teams like Chicago, LA and Tampa during that span.

And again, you're ignoring all the teams like Florida, Ottawa, Buffalo, Edmonton, Atlanta etc that have continuously drafted in the top-5 and haven't won anything. Do their failures represent overwhelming evidence that tanking doesn't work?

Or is there possibly more at play here than simply who has top-5 talent and who doesn't?

I feel the same way. And then it comes down to Voracek and JVR. Assuming you have to keep one I'd like JVR on my team all day.
- black_francis

I agree. Voracek might be the most frustrating Flyer I've watched since I got into the sport.

I'd still try my damndest to move JVR.

But to your thesis bolded below: Its absolutely not. I do not understand how a smart guy like you can repeatedly not look in the face of overwhelming evidence. It is mind-boggling to me.


- PT21

Here is another, starker way to look at it.

What you are saying boils down to the following. Stay competitive, and draft in those competitive positions, and you can eventually win because some of your mid-level picks will pan out to be all the superstars that you need to win it all.

In other words, you do not need the assistance of a top 5 pick to win the cup. You will eventually get enough good players from drafting in competitive positions.

Name me one team other than Boston who has actually done this. (I throw out Detroit because of the damned Hank Aksell factor)

What’s he have, like 2 more years on his contract?
It’ll be up to the Flyers if they want to keep him, because I think he’d just assume stay. Maybe Montreal could pry him away as a FA if they’re close to a Cup and we’re not really competing.
- Hesh_

I think after this season, yes 2 years. You're probably right. I'm sure they'll have a talk with G un his final year to see where his head is at.

Why do you keep talking like the Flyers haven't had their shots at lottery-grade talent? They were slated get Patrick Kane in 2007 but lost the lottery. They got 2nd-overall again but too bad the Nolan Patrick draft was weak at the top. They've had multiple top-10 picks in a 15-year span, yielding a legit #1 C and a 25-min dman.

Their spread of draft positions actually doesn't look that much different than teams like Chicago, LA and Tampa during that span.

And again, you're ignoring all the teams like Florida, Ottawa, Buffalo, Edmonton, Atlanta etc that have continuously drafted in the top-5 and haven't won anything. Do their failures represent overwhelming evidence that tanking doesn't work?

Or is there possibly more at play here than simply who has top-5 talent and who doesn't?
- Tomahawk

1. Why do you constantly point out teams that have followed the strategy and not won a cup? Will you look at people who end up getting Covid in spite of vaccinations as an excuse to not be vaccinated? Is the vaccination a guarantee that you will not be infected? Is anyone making that guarantee?

2. And how many times do I need to make the left leg necessary but not sufficient to win the sprint analogy? When did I ever say that drafting high is the only thing you need and that it is a guarantee?

Why do you constantly point out teams that have followed the strategy and not won a cup? Will you look at people who end up getting Covid in spite of vaccinations as an excuse to not be vaccinated? Is the vaccination a guarantee that you will not be infected? Is anyone making that guarantee?
- PT21

Holy bad analogy.

You're really comparing the efficacy rate of a vaccine to a lottery pick?

And I think you also forget that the Flyers at one time had the #1 generational super giant swinging Richard in the league during the 90's and they still didn't win poop. Worse, they got utterly embarrassed in '97.

Why do you keep talking like the Flyers haven't had their shots at lottery-grade talent? They were slated get Patrick Kane in 2007 but lost the lottery. They got 2nd-overall again but too bad the Nolan Patrick draft was weak at the top. They've had multiple top-10 picks in a 15-year span, yielding a legit #1 C and a 25-min dman.

Their spread of draft positions actually doesn't look that much different than teams like Chicago, LA and Tampa during that span.

And again, you're ignoring all the teams like Florida, Ottawa, Buffalo, Edmonton, Atlanta etc that have continuously drafted in the top-5 and haven't won anything. Do their failures represent overwhelming evidence that tanking doesn't work?

Or is there possibly more at play here than simply who has top-5 talent and who doesn't?
- Tomahawk

To tank or not to tank, some make it sound like you just trade all your good players, lose a lot and draft high. Looking at the records of some of the Cup champs you can see where they finished year to year, it appears they did well some years and not so well others. Does that mean they were tanking or just going through the natural flow of being good then aging out. You point our correctly the Flyers have had their lottery shots. The Pens we know for sure tanked, if Crosby and Malkin weren't in those drafts would that have changed their fortunes? Would that have changed their strategy? It is not as simple as just bottom feed and you will compete for the cup at some point.

I would assume Ghost is playing tonight.
- MBFlyerfan

hope you are right

Holy bad analogy.

You're really comparing the efficacy rate of a vaccine to a lottery pick?

And I think you also forget that the Flyers at one time had the #1 generational super giant swinging Richard in the league during the 90's and they still didn't win poop. Worse, they got utterly embarrassed in '97.
- Tomahawk

Thanks, Tomahawk You just ruined my day! I was a senior in high school that year and was so sure they were going to win it all and Big E would win the Conn Smythe. The Flyers goalies were terrible in that series! I still hate the Red Wings because of it, though the Blackhawks/Patrick Kane (should have been a Flyer) aren't far behind due to 2010.

and I use the phrase "would like to see" VERY loosely.
- black_francis

lol

Holy bad analogy.

You're really comparing the efficacy rate of a vaccine to a lottery pick?

And I think you also forget that the Flyers at one time had the #1 generational super giant swinging Richard in the league during the 90's and they still didn't win poop. Worse, they got utterly embarrassed in '97.
- Tomahawk

No, I am not. But the scale of the likelihood is not relevant for the point being made. In any strategy in life, or business, you pick the one that has better odds.

Here are more realistic probabilities:

Pick high and your probability of success over the next 10 years is 5%
Pick middle and your probability of success is 1%

Which one should you do?

To tank or not to tank, some make it sound like you just trade all your good players, lose a lot and draft high. Looking at the records of some of the Cup champs you can see where they finished year to year, it appears they did well some years and not so well others. Does that mean they were tanking or just going through the natural flow of being good then aging out. You point our correctly the Flyers have had their lottery shots. The Pens we know for sure tanked, if Crosby and Malkin weren't in those drafts would that have changed their fortunes? Would that have changed their strategy? It is not as simple as just bottom feed and you will compete for the cup at some point.
- wcorvette

Thanks for that. Because no one said that.

Holy bad analogy.

You're really comparing the efficacy rate of a vaccine to a lottery pick?

And I think you also forget that the Flyers at one time had the #1 generational super giant swinging Richard in the league during the 90's and they still didn't win poop. Worse, they got utterly embarrassed in '97.
- Tomahawk

Choked. Yes there were injuries.

2. And how many times do I need to make the left leg necessary but not sufficient to win the sprint analogy? When did I ever say that drafting high is the only thing you need and that it is a guarantee?
- PT21

And you keep acting like the Flyers have no left leg. Forget where they were actually taken, G and Coots are near the very top of their respective draft classes right now in terms of talent/production/WAR right? Does that not count in your assessment?