endless loser blather deleted
- MJL

You know how it is obvious to many people who have played the game that you have never played hockey yourself?

Well, similarly, some of us actually do have quite a lot of experience in what constitutes expert analysis, how to aggregate it, its follies and virtues, and what to glean from it.

Hss it not be clear to you and others this coaching staff does not like nor trust Ghost in anyway. So does the GM fire the coaches or get rid of the player?

I have to assume they just wan this contract gone and hope someone bites. If not then we shall see if any deals on the table. Any deals on the table now clearly are to what the flyers will accept.
- login

I said the exact same thing spring last year. That AV does not think as highly of Ghost as many here do. Guess who critiqued me for empty speculation.

I am speaking not just as a professional data guy, but really using common sense, pointing out how truly spectacular this survey is.

1. There were 20 individuals surveyed, each employed with a club. In other words, each guy has a vested interest in his ranking, and it may have a division or conference bias. By definition, some club personnel don't even get a vote. Some may have been over-represented. This is about as far as an unbiased (random) sample as it could get.


- PT21

The hockey writers that you frequently post lists from can't have a bias? They don't have a bias?

2. They chose from a predetermined list! I mean, good grief!


- PT21

It's not hard to put together a list of the top 30 players at a position. Surely that list made by anyone would include the best players in the league. Good grief you don't get it.

2. They actually weighed the rankings by points, as I bolded above, and then added them up. This is a good way to break ties. But a horrible way to compile a top 10. The reason being that a single outlying vote can hugely swing the results.


- PT21

Nothing wrong with that. One vote does not hugely swing the results.

Which is exactly what happened. One GM had him ranked at #2! As the part of your quote bolded above shows. The survey admits that this is what gets Provorov into the top 10 and that too by a squeaker, over the guy who finished #2 in Norris voting last year (Provorov finished #17 and will likely drop out of the top 20 this year).

In other words, the vast majority of the respondents don't consider him a top 10 D-man.
- PT21

Without knowing how the other people survey voted for Provorov or didn't, you can't make that statement.

Here is the bottom line. In a survey of actual experts, not the pseudo experts that you rely on, voted Provorov as one of the top 10 NHL defenseman in the league.
In other interactions, you'll survey the web to find some random opinion article that suits your premise and offer it as expert testimony but when a list is compiled by actual NHL execs, you dismiss it. That is the definition of bias.

Hey PT21. This is from the real actual experts!

Did they list the centers?
- MJL

No, buddy. This was essentially what _one _ GM thinks of him.

Would you like some assistance about the identity of that GM, given your frequent problems of adding 2+2?

If there is no other move I’m not happy, this makes the team worse. Guy was probably one of the only bright spots on the back end.
- ClaudeFather

If waiving Gostisbehere and moving a few pieces around means bringing in a more reliable top four defenseman in return, I’m happy with the move.

Most of us forget, we were very lucky that Ivan Provorov dropped to us. The stupid Devils took Pavel Zacha ahead of him. With this said, we already had Travis Sanheim, who would have been groomed to be our number one defenseman if we didn’t get so lucky. Having said all of that, Ghost holds back a Travis Sanheim from offensive situations because Ghost is useless if you don’t use him this way.

The timing is odd because Ghost is having a good year but if there is a move to be made, I’m intrigued to see what’s next.

You know how it is obvious to many people who have played the game that you have never played hockey yourself?

Well, similarly, some of us actually do have quite a lot of experience in what constitutes expert analysis, how to aggregate it, its follies and virtues, and what to glean from it.
- PT21

Your posts, on any subject that you involve yourself in, disqualifies you from any expert status on anything.

I said the exact same thing spring last year. That AV does not think as highly of Ghost as many here do. Guess who critiqued me for empty speculation.
- PT21

That same coach played Gostisbehere 19:35 in last night's game. Sometimes you need to look at who you are aligning yourself with and reassess. Are you that desperate?

Maybe some players are tired of coaches. How many coaches has Lappy survived? I worry with Therien...he’s had rough encounters with players in his past and our PP has been abysmal (going back to last year). are players frustrated with Therien’s PP decisions? Is AV being too loyal to his buddy?
- arichardson22

Unit 1: Giroux, Voracek, Provorov, Farabee, and Patrick

Unit 2: Couturier, van Riemsdyk, Hayes, Konency, Gostisbehere

Which one looks much more dangerous and you tell me what the problem is.

No, buddy. This was essentially what _one _ GM thinks of him.

Would you like some assistance about the identity of that GM, given your frequent problems of adding 2+2?
- PT21

LOL, you have no idea how any of the other people surveyed voted in regards to Provorov. Yet you say you have experience in this. LOL. How about when an NHL coach says he likes Provorov more and more every day. How did that coach vote in regards to Provorov?


Yes, tell me who that GM is and provide proof of how you know that.

Maybe some players are tired of coaches. How many coaches has Lappy survived? I worry with Therien...he’s had rough encounters with players in his past and our PP has been abysmal (going back to last year). are players frustrated with Therien’s PP decisions? Is AV being too loyal to his buddy?
- arichardson22

I used to be friends with a guy who still works for a team Therien coached. Therien worked the players to death skating every off day, probably before there were mandated off days. Also some clique things. Not certain how that translates to being an assistant coach and in this strange season..but you are right to voice that person and coaching as potentially being part of the problem..

I have never seen so many stupid out of position plays leading to panic & goals even when I used to coach mites. It's like they forget every basic thing they were taught and all chase the puck or the wrong man in the D zone and constantly leaving back doors open or uncovered players in the slot

That same coach played Gostisbehere 19:35 in last night's game. Sometimes you need to look at who you are aligning yourself with and reassess. Are you that desperate?
- MJL

In other words, the vast majority of the respondents don't consider him a top 10 D-man.
- PT21

Not true, a small majority would be a better guess. He clearly belongs in the top 20 from looking at the results.

The post says there were 20 respondents in the survey, 7 placed Provorov in the top 10, one of those placed him 2nd, and it does not say where Provorov was ranked by the other 13 respondents. He could have been anywhere from 11th to 20th or 30th depending on the length of list used for defenseman.

That same coach played Gostisbehere 19:35 in last night's game. Sometimes you need to look at who you are aligning yourself with and reassess. Are you that desperate?
- MJL

Is this the same coach that scratched him multiple times this year?

Not true, a small majority would be a better guess. He clearly belongs in the top 20 from looking at the results.

The post says there were 20 respondents in the survey, 7 placed Provorov in the top 10, one of those placed him 2nd, and it does not say where Provorov was ranked by the other 13 respondents. He could have been anywhere from 11th to 20th or 30th depending on the length of list used for defenseman.
- NC Flyers Fan

Provie does a lot well. He just doesn’t stand out in one thing with having a rounded skill set. Like not a heavy shot. Not a heavy hitter. Doesn’t have blazing speed. But does everything well.

People may view it diffeeently if he was 6’4”. 215. Or if he was smaller with the same skill set not sure he’d be 1 st line in a bunch of eyes.

If waiving Gostisbehere and moving a few pieces around means bringing in a more reliable top four defenseman in return, I’m happy with the move.

Most of us forget, we were very lucky that Ivan Provorov dropped to us. The stupid Devils took Pavel Zacha ahead of him. With this said, we already had Travis Sanheim, who would have been groomed to be our number one defenseman if we didn’t get so lucky. Having said all of that, Ghost holds back a Travis Sanheim from offensive situations because Ghost is useless if you don’t use him this way.

The timing is odd because Ghost is having a good year but if there is a move to be made, I’m intrigued to see what’s next.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree mostly and I will say the way Sanheim played in the3rd last night is how he needs to play all the time. He used his skating and anticipation to attack and pressure the puck. Myers needs to read this and stay back and give Sanheim the ability to press. Where we don't agree is on the PP, not just with Sanheim but with Provy too. Neither can QB the PP like Ghost. That said if it is a move designed to improve the D, that is ok with me. If they did this and their plan is for Gus or otherwise, that is tone deaf.

Provie does a lot well. He just doesn’t stand out in one thing with having a rounded skill set. Like not a heavy shot. Not a heavy hitter. Doesn’t have blazing speed. But does everything well.
- Peter Richards

he actually has a really good shot, he can pick corners, his confidence with the puck this season has been way down, lets hope the OT winner brings it back a little.

Is this the same coach that scratched him multiple times this year?
- Peter Richards

Also scratched Konecny, Lindblom and Myers. Scratching a player does not mean that a coach does not trust a player.

he actually has a really good shot, he can pick corners, his confidence with the puck this season has been way down, lets hope the OT winner brings it back a little.
- wcorvette

I don’t disagree. But can also name other d men who have better shooting skills is all I’m saying. Yea he does everything well.

Unit 1: Giroux, Voracek, Provorov, Farabee, and Patrick

Unit 2: Couturier, van Riemsdyk, Hayes, Konency, Gostisbehere


Which one looks much more dangerous and you tell me what the problem is.
- SuperSchennBros

Not sure both units look like they should score but Ill take the Coots since it has our top player, best PP forward and Ghost is best running the point. They really dont have pure shooter but TK

2nd line will run thru G and Jake, Farabee can shoot but Provy as of yet has not shown himself to be a PP1 QB, let alone Patrick

both units need that sniper

I agree mostly and I will say the way Sanheim played in the3rd last night is how he needs to play all the time. He used his skating and anticipation to attack and pressure the puck. Myers needs to read this and stay back and give Sanheim the ability to press. Where we don't agree is on the PP, not just with Sanheim but with Provy too. Neither can QB the PP like Ghost. That said if it is a move designed to improve the D, that is ok with me. If they did this and their plan is for Gus or otherwise, that is tone deaf.
- wcorvette

Just have to let it play out and get a clearer picture.

I don’t disagree. But can also name other d men who have better shooting skills is all I’m saying. Yea he does everything well.
- Peter Richards

true enough, its his overall game that is his strength. Why he can afford for his hands to turn into stone.

we have a lot in common then
- login

boys, boys....you're both just awful

Just have to let it play out and get a clearer picture.
- MJL

yeah , there has to be a plan, there should be...

I agree mostly and I will say the way Sanheim played in the3rd last night is how he needs to play all the time. He used his skating and anticipation to attack and pressure the puck. Myers needs to read this and stay back and give Sanheim the ability to press. Where we don't agree is on the PP, not just with Sanheim but with Provy too. Neither can QB the PP like Ghost. That said if it is a move designed to improve the D, that is ok with me. If they did this and their plan is for Gus or otherwise, that is tone deaf.
- wcorvette

Well I think this statement is unfair because Travis Sanheim for example has seen very little power play time in his career. Provorov has produced quite a bit in his time since replacing Ghost. I think people believe Provorov isn’t good on the PP because we’ve been so spoiled by having Ghost before him, Mark Streit before Ghost, Timonen before Streit and of course Chris Pronger.

I'll put it to you like this. Patrick Laine was rumored to be traded here all last summer. Some people like the idea, some people claimed you can't win with a guy like that. Well, why can't you win with a Patrick Laine who is capable of breaking open a game at anytime but can win with a guy like Ghost is poor defensively and doesn't offer much if he isn't scoring?

If the PP is Provorov’s greatest weakness, we’re pretty lucky.

I don’t disagree. But can also name other d men who have better shooting skills is all I’m saying. Yea he does everything well.
- Peter Richards

Point shot velocity is so overrated.

If the pucks don't get through, or they're not on net, what's the point?

Prov hits the net.